Great Pool Players

The subject of whether pool is a sport or not came up in another thread. Several years ago I was in a poker game at the Reno Hilton during the World Poker Challenge when this subject came up. Sitting to my left was Warren "Monk" Costanza, a world class tournament pool player. He said this "In an 8 hour session of pool a player does more bending, crouching and squatting than a football player does at practice. And he does more thinking than a college student does in a month." I just know that as a kid I watched the old great pool players on Wide World of Sports. And I watch the ladies shoot on ESPN. I watch a lot of matches on youtube also.

My first job, age 13, was in the Town Tavern in Gonzales, Louisiana. They had four regulation pool tables. I was the rackboy. The loser had to pay 10 cents and I racked the balls up for them. I got half the money the pool tables took in. I've been playing pool ever since. But I'm not as good as I used to be simply because I don't have the stamina anymore. I can tell you that nineball is a very fast game and rewards the younger players. It takes a lot of stamina to bang balls in for 4 or five hours.

The comments I made about pool in the other thread was just so much bravado. The last big money game I was in was about a year ago. This twenty-something kid kept after me for a $500 match. I didn't want to play. My barroom buddies know I'm pretty good. Whenever they switch to a partners game I'm the first one picked. They were disappointed I wouldn't play the kid for money. So I agreed to a match. But I switched the kid to nineball. In 8-ball all you do is push the cue ball around the table. I had seen him play enough to know he couldn't go two and three rails for shape.

So we played nineball race to 11 for $500. In short order I had the kid 8 to zero. But by then I was plum tuckered out. I was a 59 year old man playing a twentysomething kid. I had to coast the rest of the way. I won the match 11 to 7.

Cole Dickson died of cancer a few months ago. He's a Montana player. In the 70's he was the best teenage pool player in the country. He was famous for a one-pocket shot called the twistback. In the youtube video he's in a one-pocket match and does the twistback from both sides of the plate. On the first shot he has to make all his balls in the corner pocket just to his left. In the second shot he has to make all his balls in the corner pocket just to his right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiBM6JLcmK4

Great story, and congrats on the win. I've always been intrigued by pool and think it would be fun to try to get good at. I'd have it easier than most, since my father is an avid player and we're lucky enough to be able to have a full-sized table. But I don't get the impression that scene is what it used to be, especially for people my age (late 20's)

Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason?

Quote: mickeycrimm

I've been playing pool ever since. But I'm not as good as I used to be simply because I don't have the stamina anymore. I can tell you that nineball is a very fast game and rewards the younger players. It takes a lot of stamina to bang balls in for 4 or five hours.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiBM6JLcmK4

Older men can probably turn pool skills to other carom games. Tactical experience and patience can be decisive, or at least partially compensate for age.

Do the player realls wear baseball caps and heavy metal shirts ? ... what happened to the dress code in pool games ?

Bedtime, will be back tomorrow. 1957 I was a rack boy in Henry Gordon's poolroom. Racked for Willie Mosconi for two exhibitions. GREATEST PLAYER EVER !

Some people think Ralph Greenleaf was better, but one of the guys at the poolroom had been Ralph's manager. Day in and day out he said Mosconi was better. I had no idea I was witnessing greatness. One spectator remarked " He ain't so good. All he shoots is duckers."

That was true. If I could just shoot his shots and somehow get his position, I could run a 100. And some really really good 9 ball players thought they were stealing when he spotted them the 6 or 7 ball. No Way. Pool was dying in 57. Got a boost in 61/62 when the movie HUSTLER came out. College campus's added billiard rooms and Brunswick sales soared.

Brunswick was Willie's sponsor and led to his world record. He was to give an exhibition on the standard championship 4&1/2 by 9
table one night in 1954. But that table was not a Brunswick so he had to play on a 4 by 8 Brunswick table. Ran 526 balls. WTF.
That is over 35 racks.

Back in 57 TV was all black and white and showed lots of gangsters movies. Henry had a big console TV in poolroom and would throw a coke bottle at it and curse. WHY ? Cause in those movies every time a criminal needed a hit man. arsonist, whatever he found him in the poolroom. In 1957 you had to be 18 to be in a poolroom and 21 after 11pm. That all went south in mid 60's when Brunswick put tables in bowling alleys and had the laws changed. No longer was a poolroom forbidden fruit.

About same time 3 &1/2 by 7 tables started going into bars UGH. Hate them. But was there ever easier money? Lol No way.

Hey Mickey, any snooker tables in Las Vegas? Know this English bloke I hope to hustle next time he's in the States !

Tell the truth Rick, after winning at Kelly and discovering a second pill in your pocket, did you confess ? Or just slide it back in the bottle ? 14-1 is a great game, but nobody plays in any more. 9 ball was my best hustle. I knew what my chances were on running out, and would often just play position to slam the 2 , 3, even the 7 if need be, into the 9 and get lucky. LOL

Would have guys pass up an opponent they could beat to play me instead. Plus if I was up $10 at $1 a game and you wanted to play a game for $5 on the 5 and the 9, have at it. In the long run I came out way ahead. HATE bar tables. Can't play safe!

And guys play 8 ball and actually think they are good. What a joke !

Ball in front of pocket, very easy shot, called a ducker in Baltimore. In Pa they were called peeps. Remember when Bowling was on ABC on Saturdays ? Duckpins ruled in Baltimore. Johnny Unitas opened a 10 pin lane in Woodlawn, MD. Near SSA when the Wiz once toiled. Was there the nights light got turned out for non payment in middle of league game. LOL Johnny U lost to duckpins.

But that game is almost dead now too. Some guys play 6 ball on bar table and pose like champs when they run out IDIOTS !

Quote: Buzzard

Tell the truth Rick, after winning at Kelly and discovering a second pill in your pocket, did you confess ? Or just slide it back in the bottle ? 14-1 is a great game, but nobody plays in any more.

Have to agree with Buzz on 14-1. Used to play that all the time with my dad in our family room. Loved that game.

Saw Eddie Kelly playing a big match in Kliens in Baltimore. Made this tuff shot , came around 3 rails to break open the rack. But a ball out of rack pushed cue ball toward corner pocket. It hung on lip for a second, then dropped for a scratch. And one of the olds\ farts watching said " See what happens when you let the cue ball run wild. "

Buzzard

Kelly pool was all about getting that first shot, and knowing that you could make your ball on a break. Then it became running the rack and knowing how to make combination shots and playing position, if you missed that break shot.

That is why I loved that game, and the fact that you were getting paid off on the other player’s ball that you were making. The first game that I learned was straight pool, where you had to know how to play position, that is where Moscoin’s book came in, I would practice what kind of English I needed to get my position for my next shot. Moscoin was the master, when it came to playing position. I base my sailing and racing sail boats on what I learned shooting pool and the angles I needed to make a shot at pool paid off, when I could just look at an angle when racing sail boats.

I took what I learned from shooting pool to playing craps, and knowing that you have to practice you’re betting and shooting if you are going to win at playing craps. Knowing when you are beat in anything you do, is what makes winners. The losers never know that they are beat and think they can win it all back by chasing their money! There are days that nothing goes right for you and it’s time to walk away so you have a bankroll to play the next day.

I would never play someone for money that had too big of an advantage on me when I was shooting pool. If you don’t learn what you are up against when you are playing any casino game, you might as well empty your pockets at the front door and never look back, sure you’re going to have a few winning days, everybody does get lucky some of the time. But most of the time you are going to be nothing but a loser.

You need to read everything you can about what ever game you are playing, then learn to weed out all the bad information that you are going to read. You can’t take anything for granted, when you gamble. Pool taught me that you need to practice what you are doing if you want to win.

I no longer play pool I don’t have the eye sight for it. I gave it up years ago, but it taught me what I need to do to win at anything I do!

RaleighCraps,the next time you’re in town we have to find a table to shoot on, I haven’t pick-up a pool cue in years! Although I think we could make more money on a craps table!

Quote: superrick

Buzzard

Kelly pool was all about getting that first shot, and knowing that you could make your ball on a break. Then it became running the rack and knowing how to make combination shots and playing position, if you missed that break shot.

That is why I loved that game, and the fact that you were getting paid off on the other player’s ball that you were making. The first game that I learned was straight pool, where you had to know how to play position, that is where Moscoin’s book came in, I would practice what kind of English I needed to get my position for my next shot. Moscoin was the master, when it came to playing position. I base my sailing and racing sail boats on what I learned shooting pool and the angles I needed to make a shot at pool paid off, when I could just look at an angle when racing sail boats.

I took what I learned from shooting pool to playing craps, and knowing that you have to practice you’re betting and shooting if you are going to win at playing craps. Knowing when you are beat in anything you do, is what makes winners. The losers never know that they are beat and think they can win it all back by chasing their money! There are days that nothing goes right for you and it’s time to walk away so you have a bankroll to play the next day.

I would never play someone for money that had too big of an advantage on me when I was shooting pool. If you don’t learn what you are up against when you are playing any casino game, you might as well empty your pockets at the front door and never look back, sure you’re going to have a few winning days, everybody does get lucky some of the time. But most of the time you are going to be nothing but a loser.

You need to read everything you can about what ever game you are playing, then learn to weed out all the bad information that you are going to read. You can’t take anything for granted, when you gamble. Pool taught me that you need to practice what you are doing if you want to win.

I no longer play pool I don’t have the eye sight for it. I gave it up years ago, but it taught me what I need to do to win at anything I do!

RaleighCraps,the next time you’re in town we have to find a table to shoot on, I haven’t pick-up a pool cue in years! Although I think we could make more money on a craps table!

I'll be coming back some day. I just can't figure out what day that is.

Quote: treetopbuddy

Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason?

Jackie Gleason was probably the best celebrity pool player ever. He grew up in a pool hall in Brooklyn. In the movie notice that all of his shots are recorded panoramically. He demanded it be done that way. He wanted the whole world to know he was the one making those shots. He was a great pool player. The funny thing is he won the Academy Award for best supporting actor in The Hustler.

Quote: Buzzard

Bedtime, will be back tomorrow. 1957 I was a rack boy in Henry Gordon's poolroom. Racked for Willie Mosconi for two exhibitions. GREATEST PLAYER EVER !

Buzz, I went to a Willie Mosconi exhibition in 1985 in Anchorage, Alaska. You evidently know what stroke is. Mosconi had the sweetest stroke I've ever seen on a human being. And he was a very old man at the time. I got to ask him a few questions. Do you know what he was shooting with? A 19.5 ounce Balabushka with a 12.5 millimeter tip.

I watched some of the Mosconi Cup at the Mirage this week. The USA got crushed 13-2.

Quote: DRich

I watched some of the Mosconi Cup at the Mirage this week. The USA got crushed 13-2.

Strickland is a bitch. The USA rarely lost the Mocsconi Cup when he was the leader of the team. He quit playing the Mosconi Cup a few yeas back, or should I say he got fired. He got fired just like Hank Williams got fired off the Grand Ole Opry. They fired the best son of a bitch for the American team. The USA needs him on the team. He is the most intense pool player of our generation of Americans. I don't give a shit about Strickland's rantings and ravings. You must understand that the bastard is ranting because he doesn't believe in losing. I'll take Earl Srickland against any American pool player today.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Buzz, I went to a Willie Mosconi exhibition in 1985 in Anchorage, Alaska. You evidently know what stroke is. Mosconi had the sweetest stroke I've ever seen on a human being. And he was a very old man at the time. I got to ask him a few questions. Do you know what he was shooting with? A 19.5 ounce Balabushka with a 12.5 millimeter tip.

what type and ounce stick do you shoot with?

My first cue was given to me by my dad have no clue what it was or how many ounces, but it sure was old, It was stolen. Dad was pissed. When I got to Vegas I had to shoot with bar cues, I marked my favorite ones at each place I went.

Finally I bought a flashy 19 ounce cue. I got way less bar games. I left the stick somewhere and it was taken. At this point I bought a 18 ounce Meucci, Sneaky Pete. Eventuality the shaft broke. Moving a way from bars and into the pool halls, I then bought a 19 ounce Mcdermott, eventually it went missing. I bought a 2nd 19 ounce Mcdermott and the same thing happened to that. When you are in and out of pool halls all day long, drinking at night and having fun, things get left in bad places. Eventually I realized I needed only to have cheap $50 cues.

Quote: AxelWolf

what type and ounce stick do you shoot with?

My first cue was given to me by my dad have no clue what it was or how many ounces, but it sure was old, It was stolen. Dad was pissed. When I got to Vegas I had to shoot with bar cues, I marked my favorite ones at each place I went.

Finally I bought a flashy 19 ounce cue. I got way less bar games. I left the stick somewhere and it was taken. At this point I bought a 18 ounce Meucci, Sneaky Pete. Eventuality the shaft broke. Moving a way from bars and into the pool halls, I then bought a 19 ounce Mcdermott, eventually it went missing. I bought a 2nd 19 ounce Mcdermott and the same thing happened to that. When you are in and out of pool halls all day long, drinking at night and having fun, things get left in bad places. Eventually I realized I needed only to have cheap $50 cues.

My second favorite cue I've owned was a Meucci, probably 18 oz. My favorite, which I still own, is a 16 oz sneaky Pete made by Showcase cues, near Denver. At the time, their cue maker was Ernie Martinez. A lot of people look at me funny when they hear I use a 16 oz. cue.

17.5 oz. Palmer, engraved

Been around the forum watching for a couple of years and decided to register and contribute to this thread only because I watched a guy named Eddie Parker shoot pool in a little pool hall in Port Arthur, Texas one night. Had to be one of the best I ever saw in person. They used his character in a movie....called him
Fast Eddie Felson as I recall. I shoot with a 21 oz. Viking super joint that I have had since 1978.

Quote: Tim40189

Been around the forum watching for a couple of years and decided to register and contribute to this thread only because I watched a guy named Eddie Parker shoot pool in a little pool hall in Port Arthur, Texas one night. Had to be one of the best I ever saw in person. They used his character in a movie....called him
Fast Eddie Felson as I recall. I shoot with a 21 oz. Viking super joint that I have had since 1978.

Best player I seen was a guy named Big Tex not yet in his 40s, he is big and loud. I originally meet him playing poker, he is Super aggressive and over bluffs. He plays pool At the Cue club and pool sharks in Vegas. I believe he is worth millions and owns a construction company. He has one problem He drinks big time when playing both poker and pool. Good Players sit around and wait for the right time. Eventually his drinking and ego gets out of hand and he starts giving to much weight. Last time I went with him he had downed 4 shots at a bar before getting started. Eventually at the pool hall he was spotting some chick 7,8,9 for 15k a set, He could not even walk str8. She was down 3 sets, He was still ordering drinks. As always I would be concerned and say something. His comment would be, I have so much money I don't care what happens, her backer will run out of money before I pass out. I don't know the outcome for that night, I had to leave.

Fast Eddie Parker died while attending an 8 ball tournament on South Padre Island. In 1964 I was on South Padre Island one winter night. Playing 8 ball in a bar that had longest shuffleboard table I ever saw. All regulars and me playing $10 8 ball. Was down to just $3 at one time and wondering what would happen if I lost. Luckily I his the guy on the 8, then went on a win streak and won $190.
If I could get out safely that is. Walked out on wooden porch and 3 guys follow me. My buddy Frank was in the car when this guy asked " Are you a hustler ? " I said no way, that old boy just had 2 much to drink. The guy said, No you shoot good too ! I took the two to mean he shot good. So I said Would you be there tomorrow? He said "SURE"

Slept on beach that night with 2 metal tent stakes not in the ground but under my blanket. Caught the ferry next morning, no bridge like today. Frank always ragged me about hustling on an island.

Buzz, that's kinda a rough way to get by. That island has been the doom of many I've heard. Me and another guy went the other way and wound up in a little joint just across the Louisiana border playing for appx. 16 hours straight one night, he was the player I just backed. We left out of that little place with both of us in the floorboard of his car and headed for Texas, and he was driving. Made it hard to drive for a minute but we counted three bullet holes in the back of his car when we stopped and got out, along way form Louisiana. Scarred the crap out of us at the time...quit going to that joint for 2 grand it wasn't worth getting shot by some drunk mad coonass.

Quote: petroglyph

17.5 oz. Palmer, engraved

I use a 15oz cue but looking for lighter.
haven't found it yet

Quote: 100xOdds

I use a 15oz cue but looking for lighter.
haven't found it yet

Hmmm... that's a bit light. I cant imagine how well one could play with that. Seems like your srt8 shoots may suffer a bit. I have seen that weight mostly associated with sneaky pets's or in the JR player sections but they are a bit short. I guess you would get used to it. I know I don't hold my cue as far back on the butt as I should. I have played people with no tip when mine broke off, I would use just the Ferrule and make a side bet that I didn't need it to win. Obviously novice players.

If any guys from Vegas or Just visiting want to have a beer and shoot a few games for fun, Let me know it has been a long while I would like to start playing again.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Strickland is a bitch. The USA rarely lost the Mocsconi Cup when he was the leader of the team. He quit playing the Mosconi Cup a few yeas back, or should I say he got fired. He got fired just like Hank Williams got fired off the Grand Ole Opry. They fired the best son of a bitch for the American team. The USA needs him on the team. He is the most intense pool player of our generation of Americans. I don't give a shit about Strickland's rantings and ravings. You must understand that the bastard is ranting because he doesn't believe in losing. I'll take Earl Srickland against any American pool player today.

Strickland did play this year.

Quote: 100xOdds

I use a 15oz cue but looking for lighter.
haven't found it yet

Is the butt of your stick weighted? Can you just remove it from the end? Or maybe drill it out.

Those methods I think would affect the balance, but would get the weight down.

That palmer is the difference when shooting as is the difference between a cheap Saturday night special and a Sig Sauer pistol. You can put on a ridiculous amount of English.

Started out playing 3 rail billiards. Used Henry's 27 ounce wire wrapped grip and all. Tiny tip. Damn, you could put some english in it. Used house stick when breaking 9 ball, but slammed them around afterwards with Henry's cue. Used to hustle some kids who could hardly play by shooting with a broom. LOL

Used to have guys pass up players that they were favorite to win and play me. WHY ? they knew I was lucky. Yeah like instead of running to 7 ball and having tuff shot on 8 I would pocket 2 to get position to slam 3 into 9 and see what happened. Plus if I was up $20 playing $2 nine -ball and you wanted to play last game for $20, have at it.

Everybody talks about best shot they saw. I saw worst shot ever. And I do mean ever !

Since the late 1980's Effren Reyes has been considered the best nine-baller in the world. The Philipines produced some of the best nine-ballers in the world because they grew up playing rotation pool with a 15 ball rack. So nine-ball is a short rack to them. The youtube video is a 6 minute highlight reel of some of Effren's best shots in tournament play.

http://www.youtu.be/eJiqDS4N2YQ

My late cousin Tommy Jennings was a great pool player.