Poll

26 votes (92.85%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.57%)
1 vote (3.57%)
No votes (0%)

28 members have voted

weaselman
weaselman
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
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November 2nd, 2011 at 6:02:17 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

It is surely in the interest of casinos to be able to show their software has been independently verified


I don't think it is really in their interest. If they wanted to prove they are not cheating, there is a really simple, fool-proof way to do that. Let the customer download an encrypted file with, say 500 outcomes. After the user makes 500 bets (or less, in which case the rest of the file is discarded), you let him download the key to decrypt the file, and verify that it matches the outcomes in the game he experienced.

There used to be some online casinos decades ago that did this ... and then the whole thing disappeared as if it never existed. I wonder why ;)
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 6:59:59 PM permalink
This is getting some notice over at SBRForum and the Wizard posted his warning up at Wizard of Odds earlier today.

Heritage is off the black list. LooseLines also seems to not be using the software, leaving Legends and WorldWide Wagering. 5 Dimes discontinued their relationship with BLR today. Legends is denying any wrongdoing:

Quote: SBR Gaming forum


Greetings from Legends!

Thank you for contacting us, the Wizard of Odds is not a company that regulates casino softwares, Our casino is certified by a random number generator and is responsability of each customers to make bets, unfortunately we will not be able to conpensate your bets since they were place and played by you, we do offer a 5% casino rebate based on net losses per week.

If you have any other question or doubt please do not hesitate and contact us.

Best Regards,

Jason Devore
Customer Service Department




I've noticed that there is no notice on those two sites regarding their randomness or any testing. BLR Tech also has no randomness on their site either. I've heard boo from clempops for a couple of days and wonder if he's getting anywhere. I doubt any of these players will get their money back.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
weaselman
weaselman
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
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November 2nd, 2011 at 7:02:45 PM permalink
"Our casino is certified by a random number generator"
This is priceless!
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 8:34:20 PM permalink
There is a challenge from Legends for the Wizard to test their Craps site. Anyone want to give it a shot?
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
andysif
andysif
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
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November 2nd, 2011 at 8:46:40 PM permalink
Quote: SBR Gaming forum


Greetings from Legends!

Thank you for contacting us, the Wizard of Odds is not a company that regulates casino softwares, Our casino is certified by a random number generator and is responsability of each customers to make bets, unfortunately we will not be able to conpensate your bets since they were place and played by you, we do offer a 5% casino rebate based on net losses per week.

If you have any other question or doubt please do not hesitate and contact us.

Best Regards,

Jason Devore
Customer Service Department


any company that can send out something like this should be avoided.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 8:49:06 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Heritage is off the black list. LooseLines also seems to not be using the software, leaving Legends and WorldWide Wagering.



Can you elaborate on how you know that Loose Lines and Heritage are not using this software any longer? I certainly want to remove them from the BLR list if that is true.

Actually, a major part of my business used to be auditing online casino software. About the RNG -- that just speaks for itself.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 9:05:47 PM permalink
I logged into Loose Lines and their software does not LOOK like what BLR produces on their website. BLR has sample offerings of their games on their website and Loose Lines looks very much as the games offered on 5 Dimes "Bonus Casino". Heritage has talked to the SBR Administrator (SBR Lou) who has told them that they removed the software over a year ago and contacted casino city to do the same.

Of course all of this is heresay, Mike, until you check it for yourself.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
mickpk
mickpk
Joined: Oct 21, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 9:34:44 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This is why I will never wager online no matter what site or who endorses it, sorry wiz. I will stick to bricks and morter casinos and live equipment.



Unless you have played extensively online and 'tested' their software, you don't know that, in fact, there are many reputable and fair establishments (and software/s) to play at. I have played online for many years. Undoubtedly, I have probably played some crooked software, but the huge majority of my play has been with reputable and fair establishments. My results are testament to that.

Several years ago I collated about 1.5 million hands of online blackjack and my result was well within the expectation. From memory, my actual result in that sample was a loss rate of about 0.4%. Now let's say the online casinos were cheating and the game was 'rigged' to have a house edge of 1%, instead of 0.45% as per the rules (and assume playing perfect basic strategy). My result of -0.4% would be about 7 SD's from expectations. I reckon it's safe to say that I received a fair game.

Not all establishments and software companies are crooked.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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November 2nd, 2011 at 10:43:05 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This is why I will never wager online no matter what site or who endorses it, sorry wiz. I will stick to bricks and morter casinos and live equipment.

An excellent response though one that is thought too restrictive by many. The wisdom of the approach is illustrated by the recent online poker sites set up by the Brick Casinos in Las Vegas all set to take advantage of online poker once it becomes legal. The brick casinos have licenses and strong regulatory agencies and thus the associated online sites are thought to have a giant head start in customer recognition and trust.

I don't think I've voted in the poll yet, but its probably proper that I abstain due to lack of math skills but such abstention is not in any way due to a lack of being utterly convinced that the software is crooked.

Does anyone know who is behind that company and where they are located?
Jufo81
Jufo81
Joined: May 23, 2010
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November 3rd, 2011 at 3:55:44 AM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I don't think it is really in their interest. If they wanted to prove they are not cheating, there is a really simple, fool-proof way to do that. Let the customer download an encrypted file with, say 500 outcomes. After the user makes 500 bets (or less, in which case the rest of the file is discarded), you let him download the key to decrypt the file, and verify that it matches the outcomes in the game he experienced.

There used to be some online casinos decades ago that did this ... and then the whole thing disappeared as if it never existed. I wonder why ;)



Wow, online casino decades ago... Interesting! I'd like to see what an online casino in 1980's looked like. Slots with ASCII graphics ;)

Anyways, the encryption method you mentioned does exist at one online casino - Betvoyager - which is the only online casino I know to certify it's fairness this way. See: http://www.betvoyager.com/games/randomness/

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