EV of online deposits in now closed web sites
Poll
 | 5 votes (18.51%) | ||
| | 2 votes (7.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (14.81%) | ||
| | 3 votes (11.11%) | ||
| | 13 votes (48.14%) |
27 members have voted
Quote: JimMorrisonCome on, get a clue. First off whatever the US Attorney says is propaganda for her side. .
But it was said before the agreement was made today. Why do you think the gov't so quickly agreed about the domains, what do they care. They player accounts were never frozen. Its the bank accounts the gov't wants, and to make sure the domains are never allowed to offer poker here again. I can't see where today's big announcement means anything at all, except to give people false hope that they'll get their money sooner rather than later.
Quote: JimMorrisonI assume because the backend of the sites work thru the domains? Not really sure there. .
Getting access to the domains means you'll be able to contact them thru the closed sites, big deal. You can contact them now thru the EU sites, whats the difference. Its exactly the same people involved. Its just a feel good gesture by the gov't 5 days in, its meaningless. Wait and see. PS and and FTP were everybody's best friends, as long as you were potential or real customers. Now that you've been essentially blacklisted, lets see how long you remain best friends.
Quote: EvenBobGetting access to the domains means you'll be able to contact them thru the closed sites, big deal. You can contact them now thru the EU sites, whats the difference. Its exactly the same people involved. Its just a feel good gesture by the gov't 5 days in, its meaningless. Wait and see. PS and and FTP were everybody's best friends, as long as you were potential or real customers. Now that you've been essentially blacklisted, lets see how long you remain best friends.
Want to make a wager on it? I think you're being paranoid and would love to make some money off of it lol.
Quote: JimMorrisonWant to make a wager on it?
A wager on what? That it was a meaningless gesture?
** Official ** PokerStars Check Problems Thread Started on 06-09 4,045 replies. 437,144 views
This while they had US customers !!
Quote: EvenBobA wager on what? That it was a meaningless gesture?
On how long til people are paid.
Quote: buzzpaffGee 3 or 4 people I know never had a check bounce, so Poker Star is great. How about this thread on 2 + 2 ??
** Official ** PokerStars Check Problems Thread Started on 06-09 4,045 replies. 437,144 views
This while they had US customers !!
Umm did you actually read anything else in this thread or the history of payouts? Yes checks have periodically not cleared when banks shut down accounts, etc. Payments have been an ongoing problem yet everytime Stars made it up to the player with extra money.
Do you play online poker? Do you have any firsthand knowledge of what you are talking about? Or are you just trolling threads on the subject?
Quote: JimMorrison. Payments have been an ongoing problem yet everytime Stars made it up to the player with extra money.
Thats because if they didn't, their rep would be ruined and a good rep is all you have in business. Now they have to pay a bunch of players they will no longer have as customers. On top of that, the money is frozen in closed accounts, so they have to take it from somewhere else. Maybe they have hearts of gold, as you seem to think. And maybe they don't..
Quote: EvenBobThats because if they didn't, their rep would be ruined and a good rep is all you have in business. Now they have to pay a bunch of players they will no longer have as customers. On top of that, the money is frozen in closed accounts, so they have to take it from somewhere else. Maybe they have hearts of gold, as you seem to think. And maybe they don't..
You defeat yourself with your own logic. If they don't pay US customers their rep is ruined and as you say your good rep is all you have. Your argument makes no sense.
Quote: JimMorrisonYou defeat yourself with your own logic. If they don't pay US customers their rep is ruined and as you say your good rep is all you have. Your argument makes no sense.
Why do they care if the US is no longer a customer? You ignored that part of my post.
Quote: EvenBobWhy do they care if the US is no longer a customer? You ignored that part of my post.
Umm cuz the rest of their customers might care and that would effect them.
Quote: JimMorrisonUmm cuz the rest of their customers might care and that would effect them.
But they won't. They know EU poker will never get shut down, what do they have to worry about. I'm looking at it from a business perspective. If I was PS or FTP, I would be reluctant as hell to pay, whats in it for me. Tell your gov't to unfreeze our banks and we'll be happy to send you a check.
I also received an email yesterday about a cashout I requested (just thought I'd try, why not?) saying:
We were very pleased to receive the news today that allows US players to cash out their real money balances.
In response to this update, the Cashout Option in the PokerStars Cashier will be temporarily closed to allow us to prepare the technical solutions and formulate the plan and processes required to allow you to cash out your balance.
In the interim, any pending cashouts have been returned to your account in order to ensure players have the opportunity to cash out orderly. Please be assured, player balances are safe. We will notify all US territories players as soon as the cashier is available again.
Providing you with the facility to cash out is our top priority right now, and hopefully all US territories players will be able to cash out via the PokerStars Cashier in the near future. We apologize for the temporary delay, and sincerely appreciate your patience and cooperation, as we continue working towards providing you with a solution to cash out.
Regards,
PokerStars Support
Looks like the >70%'s have it.
Quote: EvenBobBut they won't. They know EU poker will never get shut down, what do they have to worry about. I'm looking at it from a business perspective. If I was PS or FTP, I would be reluctant as hell to pay, whats in it for me. Tell your gov't to unfreeze our banks and we'll be happy to send you a check.
Bob it has been posted many times but since you seem to be a little slow getting it I will try one more time. The bank accounts that hold the bulk of the players funds are trust accounts in Europe and have not been frozen as demonstrated by the fact that everyone but US players are getting paid. The accounts that were frozen were the US accounts that they maintained to pay the US players. These were operating accounts and would not have been void of funds but did not hold anywhere close to the majority of the even the US players account balances. The reason for the large number of these accounts and the occassional short term problems they have had in the past is that these accounts have been a cat and mouse game with US government for many years as Poker Stars tried to accept deposits from/and pay winnings to the US players. My winnings as a Canadian have always been paid with no problem through a Vancouver bank.
I am suprised that you support your governments heavy handed dealing with it's citizens since I didn't realize that you had such a left leaning bent to your politics.
Quote: buzzpaffWe certainly need to put the interest pf poker players above any banking laws, don't we !
That's what got them into this mess.
Quote: EvenBobBut they won't. They know EU poker will never get shut down, what do they have to worry about. I'm looking at it from a business perspective. If I was PS or FTP, I would be reluctant as hell to pay, whats in it for me. Tell your gov't to unfreeze our banks and we'll be happy to send you a check.
Honestly that says a lot about your ethics and business practices. I guess I can't win an argument if you're judging Stars by your ethics. However to anyone impartial I would argue that Stars deserves the benefit of the doubt since they have never done anything to make people think they'd screw over a group of players. They've always been on the up and up. I've said hundreds of times that I feel money is safer on Stars than a bank, especially with banks failing so often the last few years.
Quote: buzzpaffWe certainly need to put the interest pf poker players above any banking laws, don't we !
Banking laws? You're talking laws made in 2006 to force the banks (against their will) to put pressure on the poker sites. Get a grip with reality.
Quote: kenarmanyou seem to be a little slow getting it I will try one more time. .
We'll see. As my grandaddy used to say, don't spend the money till its in your pocket, son..
Quote: JimMorrisonHonestly that says a lot about your ethics and business practices..
I've owned several businesses. Its not about doing the right thing, its about doing what you can to keep your business afloat. Once you get that taken care of, you can eventually get around to doing the right thing.
Quote: EvenBobI've owned several businesses. Its not about doing the right thing, its about doing what you can to keep your business afloat. Once you get that taken care of, you can eventually get around to doing the right thing.
So again you are making assumptions based on nothing. Over 2/3 of PokerStar's business is non-US. There has been no indication whatsoever that they are having any problems staying afloat. Their track record is one of complete integrity to customers. Based on nothing at all you keep insinuating they are going to screw over their US customers.
Quote: JimMorrisonTheir track record is one of complete integrity to customers.
Time will tell. You never know. The proof is in the pudding. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. All that glitters is not gold.
Quote: EvenBobTime will tell. You never know. The proof is in the pudding. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. All that glitters is not gold.
All those things are true. It's also true that a company that has never screwed over players deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Quote: JimMorrisonAll those things are true. It's also true that a company that has never screwed over players deserves the benefit of the doubt.
So bouncing checks regularly is a good thing for the customers.
Quote: buzzpaffSo bouncing checks regularly is a good thing for the customers.
I can't debate with someone who doesn't comprehend anything they read. You want to blame someone for checks bouncing blame the US Government. You don't see any non-US checks that bounced it was all US when banks shut accounts down. If you can't understand that then I just don't know what to tell you.
If you remember, "Zeejustin" was banned from Pokerstars over three years ago (in February of 2006).
Bonomo was initially banned by Party Poker after they had found that he had entered multiple accounts into tournaments.
Pokerstars followed suit a short time later, claiming that Bonomo was found to have multi-accounted on their site as well.
Pokerstars, in their decision to unban Bonomo, claim that he has "since recognized that what he did was wrong", and that he has "accepted the consequences of his actions".
Pokerstars goes on to say that "although some in the poker world will never forgive him for what he did", he is now welcome to play on their site once again.
Talk about integrity ! Just couldn't wait to add a cheater back into the fold. !!!!
Quote: buzzpaffAfter a "serious consideration of the issues", Pokerstars have decided to lift their lifetime ban of Justin "Zeejustin" Bonomo.
If you remember, "Zeejustin" was banned from Pokerstars over three years ago (in February of 2006).
Bonomo was initially banned by Party Poker after they had found that he had entered multiple accounts into tournaments.
Pokerstars followed suit a short time later, claiming that Bonomo was found to have multi-accounted on their site as well.
Pokerstars, in their decision to unban Bonomo, claim that he has "since recognized that what he did was wrong", and that he has "accepted the consequences of his actions".
Pokerstars goes on to say that "although some in the poker world will never forgive him for what he did", he is now welcome to play on their site once again.
Talk about integrity ! Just couldn't wait to add a cheater back into the fold. !!!!
Wow you're really stretching. I know Justin and he's a nice guy however I didn't agree with the decision to lift his ban. But I also didn't agree with the NFL lifting Michael Vick's suspension. They set the punishment and they can lift it as they see fit. They announced their decision and took some shit for it but they didn't try to cover it up. Again Stars is on the up and up.
Quote: buzzpaffOn the up and up. Let a known cheater in with the customers he cheated before. How many guys got knocked out of a big payday by him and his cheater friends ?? Did poker stars refund any money or just move the winners up a notch ? Are there not any other poker rooms for poor misjudged Justin to cheat in ??? Actions speak louder than words ? Welcome back cheaters, checks keep bouncing, to say nothing of collusion or bots caught more by outsiders than security at Poker Stars. It's all about the rake and cheaters create revenue !!!!
Okay lol there is no reasoning with you. Go back to inventing things nobody cares about. You obviously have a hatred for online poker companies that can't be overcome with logic. Best of luck to you.
Hope you check clears, if not get advance from Justin ! good night
Hello XXXXXX,
Thank you for contacting PokerStars.
Decisions have not yet been made as to how or when we will make
any compensation for unused T$, tournament tickets or other
balances. We will make these decisions and any related credits in
the coming days.
Rest assured, as you await for this decision, your real money
balance is completely safe, and we will promptly and proactively
provide our US players with additional information as soon as it
becomes available.
We apologize for any inconvenience the delay causes, and
appreciate your patience.
Regards,
XXXXXXX
PokerStars Support Team
Quote: SOOPOOI think the problem lies not in letting the (ex?) cheater back in, but how do they prevent others from doing the same right now? What changes to their software/investigations/systems/procedures have they done since they found out about the cheater and how he was cheating? It just seems to easy to have a group of, say, a dozen, in collusion periodically taking advantage of a table. If they are smart and also periodically play alone... I would think they would go undetected for quite a while. Of course no one will be posting on forums how they cheated to win... They will be as anonymous as possible....
When Justin multi-accounted it was back in like 2006. I'm sure security has improved since then although obviously no site is ever going to comment about security procedures. That said, collusion is more difficult that you'd think. It's not hard to have algorithms that search for a lot of variables even if you only periodically take advantage of a table. It's also my understanding that there is an algorithm that searches hand histories looking for suspicious play and anything flagged is reviewed by a person. When I used to mess around with sit-n-gos sometimes I would periodically get emails from Stars security saying due to cheating/collusion detected in a SNG they have added X amount to my account which was taken from the cheaters.
But cheating and collusion always remain a problem even in live poker. Personally I find using Pokertracker while playing with HUD to be cheating although sites have allowed that.
In Justin's case I think 3 years was a pretty good sentence, I mean the guy coulda gone to prison for a violent crime and been out in less time. Again, I disagreed with Stars decision but that doesn't mean it wasn't a decent penalty.
Quote: lucky13FYI: I just received this from PokerStars with regard to Step and Tournament Tickets (which officially have no cash value, but as a US player, can't be played.)
Another thing sites are going to have to figure out is what to do with FPP's which have value. I also feel bad for players who were SuperNova Elite, that is a lot of value to lose. Then again they might just say fuck it and move to Canada or some tropical island where they can legally play again.
Quote: SOOPOOFor a non-player, what is 'SuperNova Elite', and how much 'value' would you say is lost by 'losing it'.
It's a reward level for very heavy volume PokerStars players. It is worth roughly $115,000 in cash, bonuses and tournament entries into big buyin events like the WSOP.
Quote: JimMorrisonIt's a reward level for very heavy volume PokerStars players. It is worth roughly $115,000 in cash, bonuses and tournament entries into big buyin events like the WSOP.
So I assume it technically has no cash value, and thus PokerStars will not be giving money in its stead to those Americans who achieved the status? How many Americans do you think this will affect, times $115,000? That is a windfall, albeit one time, for PokerStars, right?
Quote: SOOPOOSo I assume it technically has no cash value, and thus PokerStars will not be giving money in its stead to those Americans who achieved the status? How many Americans do you think this will affect, times $115,000? That is a windfall, albeit one time, for PokerStars, right?
Well the tournament entries will still be paid out from what I've heard but they still are going to lose out on most of the value. Not much of a windfall for Stars considering those players generate 3x that or more in rake a year.
Quote: JimMorrisonWell the tournament entries will still be paid out from what I've heard but they still are going to lose out on most of the value. Not much of a windfall for Stars considering those players generate 3x that or more in rake a year.
So ONE big player will 'pay' to the casino over $300,000 in a year? So at just the tables he plays the casino rakes in a few MILLION a year? Yikes!!!! I am in the wrong business....
Quote: SOOPOOSo ONE big player will 'pay' to the casino over $300,000 in a year? So at just the tables he plays the casino rakes in a few MILLION a year? Yikes!!!! I am in the wrong business....
One huge player. SuperNova Elite is very hard to get. If you played 5/10NL you'd have to play roughly 8 tables at a time for 40 hours each week. That is a hell of a lot of poker. Way more than I could do.
Quote: SOOPOOHas any American who tried to cash out been paid? Have any of the 'intangibles' been valued and paid?
Too soon for either of these yet. Remember they have to work out with Justice how to get checks/wires whatever sent out to people so they get thru and clear. I'd guess in the next 4-6 weeks. As for intangibles, I have no idea what they're going to do but I don't see them valuing these with a cash value and paying. On the one hand I can see where people are going to be mad they lost this value but on the other hand I see where the site can argue that some of these benefits did not have a cash value.
Same with uncleared bonus money, I can't see any value placed on it since it's uncleared.
