Online poker fraud indictments

I think the indictment restricts itself to poker sites and the owner/operators/LaundryOfficers of online poker sites, not online casinos. However, I certainly think the practices and procedures of online poker sites and online, but offshore, casinos is the root cause of the problem.

If the online world would simply abandon the darned fleas and end the silly bonus malarkey then the feds would have zilch to work with.

And that "Zilch to work with" would apply equally to Poker Sites as to Online Casinos. The feds would never be able to go after these once a year credit card transfers, its the darned fleas trying to take out their lousy few dollar winnings that gives the feds their ammunition.

Quote: JimMorrison

How's Burger King treating you? Do they let you wear the cardboard crown? Amazing how jealous you are.

I have to ask, why do keep insulting people? Its very distasteful. This is about the 10th time you've asked somebody about a fast food restaurant.

Quote: EvenBob

I have to ask, why do keep insulting people? Its very distasteful. This is about the 10th time you've asked somebody about a fast food restaurant. Its how high school kids speak to each other.

I believe he's the only one I've asked about a fast food restaurant and that's only because he works at one. Right? And this is actually me on my best behavior. You should see me at other forums.

Jim- you know Altut is the same person who has been banned here a few times, right? Trying to explain something to him will never succeed. I am relatively new to online forums but I believe he is what is known as a troll and you are only feeding him with the back and forth comments. Back to the subject- everyone is saying that playing poker for real money online is not illegal. Just the money transfer/laundering part is illegal. In other words, if I go to the feds and say- I have proof Mr. Jones is betting money online but cannot find the money trail... then he has committed no crime? It was my impression that any form of non sanctioned gambling is illegal, just not worth the effort to investigate/prosecute.
And also, as someone who has worked at a fast food restaurant years ago, it does you no good to belittle anyone's job. Belittle him for his incessant know it all comments, inability to listen to those who know more than him, etc...

Could poker sites legally set up a partnership with a land based casino chain (Harrah's for example) and accepted physical cash deposits in person at these casinos? Since it is the bank/credit card transfers that are illegal would this have been legal?

Quote: Aussie

Could poker sites legally set up a partnership with a land based casino chain (Harrah's for example) and accepted physical cash deposits in person at these casinos? Since it is the bank/credit card transfers that are illegal would this have been legal?

No, otherwise Steve Wynn and Stations wouldn't have dissolved their partnerships with Stars/Tilt on Friday. My understanding, and I'm not a lawyer so I might be wrong, is any transfer of money would be illegal. That's why they even cited prepaid phone cards that were used in the indictment.

Quote: SOOPOO

Jim- you know Altut is the same person who has been banned here a few times, right? Trying to explain something to him will never succeed. I am relatively new to online forums but I believe he is what is known as a troll and you are only feeding him with the back and forth comments. Back to the subject- everyone is saying that playing poker for real money online is not illegal. Just the money transfer/laundering part is illegal. In other words, if I go to the feds and say- I have proof Mr. Jones is betting money online but cannot find the money trail... then he has committed no crime? It was my impression that any form of non sanctioned gambling is illegal, just not worth the effort to investigate/prosecute.
And also, as someone who has worked at a fast food restaurant years ago, it does you no good to belittle anyone's job. Belittle him for his incessant know it all comments, inability to listen to those who know more than him, etc...

I didn't know that but now that you say it I'm not surprised. I don't read this forum on a regular basis to know the ins and outs of all the posters. I try and stop by here often but there are so many subfolders and threads that I normally only look at the top threads in the recent threads section. Or if it's a thread I've posted in I get the handy email alert when there is a new post so I can check it out.

UIGEA doesn't make it illegal at all to play poker or online casinos, so you are correct he has committed no crime. Congress may be stupid (and I'm speaking as a former staffer) but they aren't so stupid as to pass a bill making tens of millions of average Americans criminals. The intent of the bill was always to bring pressure on the sites thru the financial system. In actuality it created an unfair burden on the financial system and resulted in extra cost. It shouldn't be a banks job to have to investigate and figure out where an accounts transactions are coming from.

As for belittling, I have a certain style on forums and have been known for that for years. Several people here know me or know who I am. I pulled out some old lines just to be funny. I have to watch myself cuz WOO is much stricter with that stuff than anywhere else I would ever post. I just don't tolerate fools and have a hard time being nice.

Quote: JimMorrison

As for belittling, I have a certain style on forums and have been known for that for years. .

You're obviously an intelligent person. I've been posting on the net for 20 years. Belittling never puts you in a good light, no matter how clever you are about it. There are far better ways to put somebody in their place, clever ways, smart ways. When you feel like taking the cheap shot, relax. Take a moment. Ya know?

Quote: Aussie

Could poker sites legally set up a partnership with a land based casino chain (Harrah's for example) and accepted physical cash deposits in person at these casinos? Since it is the bank/credit card transfers that are illegal would this have been legal?

First of all, legality is not the primary question. If it were a clear-cut legal situation it would not happen if the publicity consequences were bad. For anything that is of doubtful legality the casinos run scared. That is why any agreements and affiliations with those indicted have been severed.

Now you deposit your money at the casino cashier and do your gambling at the casino's tables.
This notion of using the Brick Cashier for currency transfers but using the "chips" in cyberspace is great. Not happening though.

Oh its close. Look at the brick casinos who offer these Free To Play Online Games... the virtual craps table has the casino's logo on it. There is a link to the casino's hotel reservations system. They use your ip address to figure out what your players club number is. Its a marketing opportunity for them. But they can't at the present time let you actually gamble for cash. They do know that be it after one craps game online or one hundred thousand of them, you will eventually press that button to talk to the reservations desk.

Look also perhaps at the site that offers lots of online gaming wherein you win "points" as you accumulate more and more points, you win prize certificates redeemable solely upon your next visit to the Brick Casino. That online gambling site "sells" you to the casino.

There are also some casinos that allow you to play online bingo or something and win discount coupons for caps, jackets, etc. with their casino logo. Such merchandise coupons are redeemable only in person on the brick casino's premises however. I've seen a few of these promotions on small casino sites.

Personally I think the poker sites are going to take a short term hit but move on, non-americans are going to keep playing, and americans are going to find new ways around the money transfer restrictions. Its like trying to stop people from downloading music illegally, wont happen

Quote: gog

Its like trying to stop people from downloading music illegally, wont happen

Yeah, just the other day someone suggested Google simply buy out all the big record labels and allow file sharing sites to prosper.

Bookies have existed for eons despite betting on horse races and sporting events being illegal.
The "numbers racket" existed far before state sanctioned lotteries arrived on the scene.

Newspapers may not have had much in the way of journalism traditions for a good bit of our history but if you prowl various archives you will see how foot races were a major pass-time in America. Do you really think spectators were only there for "sport" and that no betting took place. A drink of whiskey and a game of Faro in the American West was as common as Absinthe in France or Tea-time in England. Indeed the saloon in the American west would often have teetotalers as regular customers. Saloons were centers of local commerce as well as offering alcohol, food and gambling.