Poll

6 votes (22.22%)
3 votes (11.11%)
No votes (0%)
8 votes (29.62%)
3 votes (11.11%)
1 vote (3.7%)
4 votes (14.81%)
14 votes (51.85%)
1 vote (3.7%)
4 votes (14.81%)

27 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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Chuckleberry
February 27th, 2019 at 5:39:07 PM permalink
I figure somebody will bring up this article that came out today, so may as well be me: ONE WEEK, ONE MILLION DOLLARS: ADVANTAGE PLAYERS FIGHTING FOR THEIR WINNINGS AT NJ ONLINE CASINOS. If anyone has any questions about the game or why this play was so profitable, I'm happy to discuss it.

The question for the poll is what do you think about the article?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GWAE
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February 27th, 2019 at 5:59:13 PM permalink
I wish I would luck into one of these one day. I wonder if the most feared AP on the east coast was involved?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
FinsRule
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February 27th, 2019 at 6:03:25 PM permalink
I played ocean magic once and Iím surprised the game was ever over 100% with the bubbles.
TomG
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February 27th, 2019 at 6:06:36 PM permalink
Great article. My dream would be for the players to put a lien on the casino for defaulting on their debts
darkoz
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February 27th, 2019 at 6:52:08 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I wish I would luck into one of these one day. I wonder if the most feared AP on the east coast was involved?



Thanks for the compliment

But no. Had no idea it was going on. I missed out on that one

It doesn't surprise me as most of the players were notified by word of mouth in the AP community. My team is pretty separate and doesn't share info incoming or outgoing

So I am destined to miss opportunities like this one

And I WAS in AC that week :(
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Wizard
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tringlomane
February 27th, 2019 at 8:40:53 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I played ocean magic once and Iím surprised the game was ever over 100% with the bubbles.



It was. I may be writing a page about it later.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
cwazy
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February 27th, 2019 at 10:41:37 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

Great article. My dream would be for the players to put a lien on the casino for defaulting on their debts



I agree that would be fun to see. More likely than not though, they'll eventually settle out of court for more than it would have cost them to just pay. Based on the article, it looks like this play was as clean as it gets...it seems that it was enabled by a massive blunder on the part of its creator, IGT. I'd be quite surprised if there isn't some sort of lawsuit or private settlement between IGT and the casinos involved to reimburse them for their losses. Borgata successfully sued the card manufacturer in the Phil Ivey case (though they were only awarded $26 out of the $9.9 million they sought), and I'd imagine the case against IGT is far stronger than the case against Gemaco was.
mamat
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February 27th, 2019 at 11:04:32 PM permalink
Quote: cwazy

Based on the article, it looks like this play was as clean as it gets...it seems that it was enabled by a massive blunder on the part of its creator, IGT.

Some games come with "extra value" when first installed (or after hard-reset)...which can be +EV (over 100% for at least 1 spin). One game used to deliver with a lot of "extra value", but the manufacturer reduced the starting "extra value". Not sure why manufacturers do this...maybe an incentive to get people to play a new game?

IGT's mistake here was allowing
(1) extra value (over 100%) on-line for EVERY player.
(2) extra value (over 100%) for high denominations.
cwazy
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February 27th, 2019 at 11:31:52 PM permalink
Quote: mamat

Some games come with "extra value" when first installed (or after hard-reset)...which can be +EV (over 100% for at least 1 spin). One game used to deliver with a lot of "extra value", but the manufacturer reduced the starting "extra value". Not sure why manufacturers do this...maybe an incentive to get people to play a new game?

IGT's mistake here was allowing
(1) extra value (over 100%) on-line for EVERY player.
(2) extra value (over 100%) for high denominations.



I understood the flaw. I was saying that doing it this way is a massive blunder. Maybe there is a legal/regulatory reason they do it? It's an interesting problem, because they couldn't just shuffle the reels at each reset either, otherwise online players would just reload the game until the conditions were favorable - which would have been an even bigger problem than the one they had here because each player could have played many more spins with an edge. So the reset state has to be something consistent. But I'm not sure why they chose a reset state that would give such a huge edge, especially since most players wouldn't know what they were looking at even when the game is favorable.
RonC
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February 27th, 2019 at 11:54:58 PM permalink
Since it was part of the poll, I have already asked about a place to stay during the eclipse in 2024. The guy seemed to say I could use it if he was still alive...

On topic, I will be interested in how this all comes out.
Wizard
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February 28th, 2019 at 6:42:00 AM permalink
Quote: mamat

Some games come with "extra value" when first installed (or after hard-reset)...which can be +EV (over 100% for at least 1 spin).



That is what happened with this play, except every new player that signed up got to play the game in the reset state, which had a huge advantage.

As to the players, I hear every casino except one has paid them.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
darkoz
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February 28th, 2019 at 7:17:19 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That is what happened with this play, except every new player that signed up got to play the game in the reset state, which had a huge advantage.

As to the players, I hear every casino except one has paid them.



Do you know which one?

Im guessing Ceasars since the game was interrupted mid-action wben they took it down. They might have some argument although booking action and pulling the plug midgame is not my idea of a malfunction voids all pays and plays

If its Borgata thats just horrible business. The DGE will probably have to step in
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
odiousgambit
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darkoz
February 28th, 2019 at 7:21:19 AM permalink
Quote:

ďWe then let all of our friends know about this crazy game,Ē Jay says, ďand pretty much everybody we knew flew in and made deposits.Ē

????????????????????????????????????????????????

well, we know "Jay" is not Axel
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Feb 28, 2019
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mcallister3200
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February 28th, 2019 at 7:24:00 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Do you know which one?

Im guessing Ceasars since the game was interrupted mid-action wben they took it down. They might have some argument although booking action and pulling the plug midgame is not my idea of a malfunction voids all pays and plays

If its Borgata thats just horrible business. The DGE will probably have to step in



Borgata
cwazy
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tringlomane
February 28th, 2019 at 7:53:45 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Borgata



They have mastered the art of the freeroll. Though I disagreed with the outcome of the Phil Ivey case, I did think that situation was questionable enough that I didnít fault Borgata for trying their luck in court. However, this case is very clear cut. No manipulation of procedures/rules occurred. Players simply played the game that was presented to them by the casino. The fact that the game (by design) offered players a 100%+ edge on the first few spins has no bearing on Borgataís obligation to pay.

I would imagine theyíll be forced to pay, either by a court or the DGE.
darkoz
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Chuckleberry
February 28th, 2019 at 8:08:53 AM permalink
I heard the APs were all wearing masks in their hotel rooms while doing this move for added protection:)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Ayecarumba
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beachbumbabsodiousgambit
February 28th, 2019 at 9:54:08 PM permalink
Pulling the plug mid-spin is a state accounted for in the Nevada rules for brick and motar casinos. A chip is supposed to record the outcome of the last spin, and return the screen to the correct position when the power is switched back on. I would assume NJ has a similar requirement for their gaming license holders, even if the casino is online. However, because the game will not be turned back on, the outcome of possible bonus spins cannot be known for sure.
Some sort of fine is in order for the operator, as pulling the plug because you think you are going to lose is akin to the Pit Boss grabbing a spinning die off the craps table because he thinks it is going come up a winner. Itís cheating.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Sandybestdog
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March 1st, 2019 at 11:04:56 AM permalink
So I guess the only thing worse than not knowing about this is knowing about it and not playing it. I knew this several months ago. So on the regular game it started with a bubble on reel one, one from the top and one bubble below reel 4. On bubble boost it was the same on one and the other bubble was below reel 5. So you basically just do 3-4 spins per denom all the way up. The bubbles are then saved to your account. Itís only about 40 spins total per account, assuming more bubbles donít appear. I believe this is how it starts when the game is installed in the casino but of course denoms only go up to a few dollars so itís no sweat. I think Egypt starts with one coin per reel when first installed. I would definitely play that at a few hundred a spin. I played Magic at a few places up to about $50. I think I won a couple hundred then gave it back. I just didnít see how it was positive and trust me I would find an excuse to play anything. I was told donít play bubbles on the fourth reel alone. That leaves only one spin with one bubble on the top of reel one. I didnít see it. Obviously I was wrong. But playing Ocean for $2000 a spin is no joke. The game pays very poorly when you miss, especially bubble boost.
Last edited by: Sandybestdog on Mar 1, 2019
cwazy
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March 1st, 2019 at 11:47:02 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

So I guess the only thing worse than not knowing about this is knowing about it and not playing it. I knew this several months ago. So on the regular game it started with a bubble on reel one, one from the top and one bubble below reel 4. On bubble boost it was the same on one and the other bubble was below reel 5. So you basically just do 3-4 spins per denom all the way up. The bubbles are then saved to your account. Itís only about 40 spins total per account, assuming more bubbles donít appear. I believe this is how it starts when the game is installed in the casino but of course denoms only go up to a few dollars so itís no sweat. I think Egypt starts with one coin per reel when first installed. I would definitely play that at a few hundred a spin. I played Magic at a few places up to about $50. I think I won a couple hundred then gave it back. I just didnít see how it was positive and trust me I would find an excuse to play anything. I was told donít play bubbles on the fourth reel alone. That leaves only one spin with one bubble on the top of reel one. I didnít see it. Obviously I was wrong. But playing Ocean for $2000 a spin is no joke. The game pays very poorly, especially bubble boost.



With regard to GE, I looked at that after this article came out because my mind went straight there. Sadly, they seem to have fixed that issue and no longer have a coin at the top of each column. I'm not sure when that changed or if it was ever the case. But it doesn't start in a playable condition anymore - not online anyway.
Sandybestdog
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March 1st, 2019 at 12:58:54 PM permalink
Quote: cwazy

With regard to GE, I looked at that after this article came out because my mind went straight there. Sadly, they seem to have fixed that issue and no longer have a coin at the top of each column. I'm not sure when that changed or if it was ever the case. But it doesn't start in a playable condition anymore - not online anyway.

Iíve never seen GE at an online casino. Thatís just what I heard they start out when set up at regular casinos but Iíve never seen it.
cwazy
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March 1st, 2019 at 2:14:56 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

Iíve never seen GE at an online casino. Thatís just what I heard they start out when set up at regular casinos but Iíve never seen it.



Itís around. But I have never seen it in a playable state.
Keyser
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March 2nd, 2019 at 11:53:21 AM permalink
The APs will likely be investigated for money laundering etc because of the publicity and size of the win. Treasury/ IRS are likely involved at this point. The legal fees will be astounding.
darkoz
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March 2nd, 2019 at 12:52:49 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

The APs will likely be investigated for money laundering etc because of the publicity and size of the win. Treasury/ IRS are likely involved at this point. The legal fees will be astounding.



Such imagination

But wrong

They haven't even filed their taxes for the wins yet so unless they fail to file this April 15th why would the IRS be involved

And winning large amounts in what is clearly a recognized win (the APs now have public knowledge of how they won the money and were paid in full by the casinos) so there is a clearcut defense against money laundering

Winning large amounts of money is not automatically money laundering
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
cwazy
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March 2nd, 2019 at 1:41:28 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Such imagination

But wrong

They haven't even filed their taxes for the wins yet so unless they fail to file this April 15th why would the IRS be involved

And winning large amounts in what is clearly a recognized win (the APs now have public knowledge of how they won the money and were paid in full by the casinos) so there is a clearcut defense against money laundering

Winning large amounts of money is not automatically money laundering



*April 15, 2020
darkoz
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March 2nd, 2019 at 1:45:32 PM permalink
Quote: cwazy

*April 15, 2020



Yep correct
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
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