WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 1532
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
March 8th, 2018 at 12:20:45 PM permalink
Rollover bonuses are no uncommon with online casinos. You should understand the terms before taking such an offer. I brokered a celebrity endorsement with an online casino years ago. They offered my bonus money in an account as part of the fee. They said the funds would have to be rolled over 5x before there would be a payout. Success all around. Payouts were much easier in early 2000s. Now days, very difficult. Small increments.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 44
  • Posts: 4210
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
March 8th, 2018 at 12:32:22 PM permalink
Quote: weezrDASvegas

@OnceDear
Are you out of this world, dear Brit, or “in some god-forsaken South Pacific island” discovered by Brits before Brexit?

The conditions you describe are better by orders of magnitude than what brick-and-mortar Las Mafia Vegas offer. I would even consider moving to Britain, if not for that Brexit.

The conditions I have day to day dealing with online casinos are an open book. Read my blog here. I won, I lost some of what I won, I won a lot more, I lost a lot more, I won a bit more still I'm currently still ahead in the game, though I play lower stakes because it's just paid for entertainment. You can find my record of wins and losses posted in my blog and summarised here http://oncedear.com/Bankroll171116.jpg

Quote:

Do your favorite Brexit casinos invoke the “terms and conditions”:

Yes actually. I was a victim of vicious invocation of the catchall terms and conditions with my previous preferred online casino of choice. So, yes, even with my favourite mainstream online Gaff, there were issues. However, I still departed that relationship significantly in profit.
Quote:

I wonder what would happen should you win BIG all of a sudden?!

Big is relative. I was paid out when I won £6k from 888 from a 188 Sign up bonus. Wagering requirements were harsh, but I prevailed. They asked for a photo of my passport and paid out within a week.
I won >£800 while playing a loss rebate bonus last week. Won a further few hundred. Transferred it all to my PayPal account and it arrived with me within 48 hours. If your gaff is less good by orders of magnitude, then change something or suck it up
Quote:

What if there ain’t wheat at all? Most of what you read on the subject describes CHAFF. Methinks your positive outlook is related to your winning insignificantly (and therefore losing quite a bit).

Maybe when I have a win of >£10,000 and get refused payment, I'll side with you. So far, I just keep cashing out from my account when the balance passes up though about £750. I credit money to the casino in small amounts when I bust out. Indeed, that is because I know they might one day stiff me. It just seems a reasonable precaution.
Quote:

They call it freedom of speech (opinions, in this case).

I'm all for it. But if "Most of what you read on the subject describes CHAFF", then maybe some of us Brit's need to counter those downbeat comments with more upbeat thruths.
In the UK we don't have to declare our winning to the tax authorities either. HMRC doesn't want to know. So maybe you might want to move here permanently, but I suspect you might have to give up US citizenship to escape the IRS.
Check out my blog for the full story from my perspective. https://wizardofvegas.com/member/oncedear/blog/5/#post1281

And by the way, I'm not employed by the gaming industry, nor indeed by anyone. I doubt Mission is either.
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 44
  • Posts: 4210
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
March 8th, 2018 at 12:44:33 PM permalink
Quote: weezrDASvegas

NO doubt one can easily spot the representatives of online casinos in this thread. To be fair, I do accept they have a right to present their position. Mission146, beachbumbabs, AxelWolf are undoubtedly in this category.


ROFLMAO
I don't know what Mission does for a living, but a tiny bit of research here would reveal that Babs is or was in 'Air Traffic Control, and is just a volunteer moderator here. I've never noticed her ever even commenting on experiences with online casinos. Axel is any casinos strongest adversary. He makes his living beating the casinos up. If he could beat up an online gaff with some advantage play, he would do so. That's the extent to which he would take money off an online casino. Hardly qualifies him as representing them. He's savvy too and AIUI, he trusts them less than I do.
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 2233
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
March 8th, 2018 at 1:25:44 PM permalink
Mmmmkay, so now everyone here with an ounce of everyday commonsense judgment knows what the OP is up to, without any need to resort to a label that isn't allowed under the rules here...
Quote: weezrDASvegas


...than what brick-and-mortar Las Mafia Vegas offer...

But. Some of the replies are more egregious, given where they come from, and should be corrected here. I don't give enough of a flying fork about this forum to engage in any back forth at all, so I won't, but just to raise a red flag & provoke anyone stumbling across this to investigate further, and be a bit more diligent than impulsive gambling web--forum denizens.

The assertion that those withdrawal requirements would be anything like normal, outside of the unique world of the little Bannannastan based offshore enterprises that choose to operate in the US outside of the law & regulatory requirements (and are therefore banned by reciprocal agreement in most other countries) is complete utter nonsense.

This is what is actually required to cash out from the licensed legitimate online sites which do not operate illegally in the United States:

A) In person at a brick and mortar location within the State where where they are licensed to operate, as follows: 1. show up; 2. show a license or other gov't issued picture ID at the cashier window; 3. sign a withdrawal slip; and receive IMMEDIATE payment in cash, as REQUIRED BY GAMING REGULATORS. In Nevada this is how all transactions involving any type of online betting accounts normally occur (outside of some special circumstances) and this is also readily available for all legal online gambling accounts in the US (definitely including NJ - since that State's legal gambling was specifically alleged to require jumping through the same ludicrous transparently shady hoops).

B) Elsewhere ( again notably NJ) as an alternative choice in addition to in-person cash withdrawal: In order to be paid either by mail in the form of a check made out to the account owner and sent to their address of record in the account, or else by an electronic "ACH" transfer (the Automated Clearing House network used by all legitimate financial institutions) to the bank account you chose to link to your online account with the nine digit ABA routing number + account number, or other of several other options of your choice, requires the following procedure: 1. log into your account using your online account ID & password, 2. type in the amount; 3. select your preferred method of payment; 4. and click. Period. Done.

NO licensed gambling site in the US requires anything like the transparently ridiculous bullspit described in the OP, nor will they. Not only because almost nobody would be stupid enough to do business with them, but more importantly because they can't. To do so would mean fines, license suspensions, and potentially license revocations. I've got multiple online betting account from which I've withdrawn funds many times, and I've read the gaming regs which are readily available online from the the relevant State licensing authorities (or simply by ASKING for chrissakes) including NJ DGE (New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement) & the NGCB (Nevada Gaming Control Board).

Given the inevitable potential for conflicts of interest & unavoidable uncertainty about the integrity of information that naturally arises due to the nature of the ownership of this site, I think the people publicly associated with this forum would be wise to avoid the usual temptation around here to make up crap, to avoid earning a really unsavory reputation for all connected with it.
Last edited by: DrawingDead on Mar 8, 2018
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWold
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 12455
March 8th, 2018 at 1:44:30 PM permalink
Quote: weezrDASvegas



“Nobody put a gun to your head [to force you to gamble online].”

That tells a lot about personality (possibly your job too).



Yeah, and yet it seems that you continue to gamble online, despite the shortfalls you perceive. Should that tell me something about your personality?

As I've already explained, my job has nothing to do with acting on behalf of online casinos in any way whatsoever. The only time I've ever been paid by an online casino is when I have won money playing at one.

In the meantime, you describe an online casino holding you to its readily known Terms and Conditions, that you also agreed to, as a, "Criminal," enterprise.

The difference between you and I has nothing to do with personality. It has to do with one set of statements being outrageous and utterly full of crap and the other set of statements not falling under that description.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 12455
March 8th, 2018 at 1:48:35 PM permalink
Quote: weezrDASvegas



They call it freedom of speech (opinions, in this case).



How about freedom of facts? All of the stuff that you complain about is on the Cashier page and can be known prior to depositing or creating an account. FACT.
Vultures can't be choosers.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 134
  • Posts: 17480
March 8th, 2018 at 1:57:00 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

I've heard these stories
I find them hard to believe
Is there any actual proof that this happened?

What kinda proof do you want? I know I did well online, but I was way more cautious than I needed to be, not to mention, I had other AP obligations and plays in real casinos. None of my partners were interested so I had to do it whenever I had downtime. You can't be everywhere and do everything, at least not to its full potential. My GF would run bonuses, however, she was even more cautious than I, especially when it came to wagering, she wouldn't bet more than a few bucks at a time running the WR's.

At the time, I assumed most of the online casinos were just going to rip you off, so I was spending a significant amount of time searching through all the blacklists for rouge casinos. If a casino happened to be on a rogue list I avoided it, I didn't take too much time finding out the real reasons why. As it turns out, most online casinos were on a rouge list for one reason or another. I'm also convinced some afilliates and or casinos groups would automatically add their competitors to the rouge lists.
Once I realized this, I started to ramp it up and take more risks, unfortunately, they stopped taking Neteller at some point and that tossed a wrench into the works. And again, I had other obligations and couldn't spend the time I needed too. At some point, after things started to change drastically with the big waging requirements, I started comparing notes with people who I believe, to be honest. Their numbers were mindboggling. It made sense as to why I didn't see them in the casinos on plays like I usually would.


I was doing very well at Bovada untill they changed their rules regarding their WR makeup and a few other things(that was a very sad day).
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
weezrDASvegas
weezrDASvegas
Joined: Feb 2, 2018
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 49
March 8th, 2018 at 2:03:19 PM permalink
Mission146 et al.:

You and others rebutted my point that the INTENT of the online casinos has an evil purpose. You rebutted me so strongly that I labeled you casino representatives. I got no problem with that and I got no problem with your job.

The Law always takes INTENT into account. Especially in trials by jury, INTENT can be a crucial element. Sometimes, INTENT is the determining factor in a trial.

There have been plenty of complaints leveled at businesses that make paying easy but the reverse action much harder. For example, people take TV ads at their face value. “Get a free bottle of that.”

The fine print is unreadable or all intents and purposes. An honest person orders with a credit card. The entire process is very easy, by phone or, especially, online. The catch is, the buyer’s credit card is charged automatically every month. Unless, the buyer decides to cancel within the first month.

Here is the worst catch: The cancellation may be made by phone only. “It’s in the fine print,” the vendor claims. Let’s suppose, by absurd, that everybody can read the fine print entirely. But the cancellation process is so hard that many customers already lost more than a month trying to stop the automatic monthly payment. The unassuming buyer would hear continuously: “Please hold on! You are currently caller number 77…”

The INTENT of the vendor is crystal-clear. They make it very hard to return products, cancel automatic credit-card charges, etc. Why don’t offer the ONLINE cancelation procedure, which is easier and much, much faster? Why do the online casinos require all those documents when customers want to withdraw their own money? The sign-up was much easier, less restrictive — even if one has to go thru a lot of fine print!

The law pays, as it were, closer attention to INTENT given the increased number of complaints. Such business procedures may be treated as DECEPTIVE BUSINESS PRACTICES.
weezrDASvegas
weezrDASvegas
Joined: Feb 2, 2018
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 49
March 8th, 2018 at 2:12:49 PM permalink
OnceDear

No offence, mate. I take all your post as BRAGGING. You win so easily, a lot like in that 21 movie. Even if you bet only on sports, you win too easily and that’s way you cash out too easily. As for blog, methinks of it as BRAG. That’s my opinion from this side of the Puond… er, Pond…
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 12455
March 8th, 2018 at 2:21:17 PM permalink
Quote: weezrDASvegas



You and others rebutted my point that the INTENT of the online casinos has an evil purpose. You rebutted me so strongly that I labeled you casino representatives. I got no problem with that and I got no problem with your job.



This is the last time I am going to tell you that nobody whom you referenced is an online casino representative. If you persist in calling anyone other than myself (because I don't ban for statements made against me) an online casino representative, then I will proceed to ban you for Trolling.

You have the right to speak your opinions as it relates online casinos, you have no right to insinuate or directly state that anyone here is in league with any casinos in any fashion other than those that actually exist.

I rebutted you strongly not because I am an online casino representative, but because the substance of your post, make no mistake, is a pile of garbage. I also rebutted you strongly because you make it sound like you got hoodwinked by the casinos when you could have come to know the very things you complain of, very easily, prior to ever having created an account.

Again, make no mistake, if you feel unfairly put upon now to supply the documents that they told you would need to be supplied in order to collect your winnings, then those feelings are 100% your fault. If you had a problem with providing this documentation and had read the cashier page, then one would think you would have chosen not to deposit.

Quote:

The Law always takes INTENT into account. Especially in trials by jury, INTENT can be a crucial element. Sometimes, INTENT is the determining factor in a trial.



Yeah, and your INTENT is to trash a seemingly reputable online casino for holding you to the Terms and Conditions that you agreed to and were readily available to you prior to creating an account.

Quote:

There have been plenty of complaints leveled at businesses that make paying easy but the reverse action much harder. For example, people take TV ads at their face value. “Get a free bottle of that.”

The fine print is unreadable or all intents and purposes. An honest person orders with a credit card. The entire process is very easy, by phone or, especially, online. The catch is, the buyer’s credit card is charged automatically every month. Unless, the buyer decides to cancel within the first month.



Generally speaking, there is a disclosure that has to be read for phone orders (and also appears in nearly impossible small type on the bottom of the screen) that would need to be read. Further, if one goes to the website, any disclosures would also appear there.

Two types of people in the world: Those who do their homework and those who don't.

Any recurring charges would require either a verbal or electronic authorization which would then require the vendor to instruct the customer as to same recurring charges. If that doesn't happen, the vendor may well be acting in contravention of FTC and/or FCC guidelines. That has certainly happened in the past and those companies have been fined and/or made to issue full refunds as a result.

Again, what you're talking about is LITERALLY THE FIRST THING SAID ON THE CASHIER PAGE OF THE WEBSITE. No fine print there.

Quote:

Why do the online casinos require all those documents when customers want to withdraw their own money? The sign-up was much easier, less restrictive — even if one has to go thru a lot of fine print!

The law pays, as it were, closer attention to INTENT given the increased number of complaints. Such business procedures may be treated as DECEPTIVE BUSINESS PRACTICES.



There was no fine print for what you're complaining of, it's the first thing the Cashier page says. You agreed to provide those documents when you agreed to the Terms & Conditions. Myself and others have already answered why they want those documents.

It would be deceptive had they not made it known to you, which is the first thing I looked at. Had it either not been in the full T&C's, or on the Cashier page, I would have agreed with you 100%, called them out on it and perhaps written an article blasting them.
Vultures can't be choosers.

  • Jump to: