Martingale is Cheating. As is card counting
"Martingale betting stategies" is defined as a "fraudulent or unlawful activity" by this casino. So is "card counting!"
So are other "low risk strategies !!!"
I just had reason to revisit the rules of what used to be my preferred online casino ( until they chucked me out )
They have a rule that basically says that if they deem your wagering to be "fraudulent or unlawful", they will close your account and you will forfeit any balance of deposits and winnings still in the account. They cite a few examples of such "fraudulent or unlawful" activities.
Chargebacks (fair enough)
Collusion (fair enough)
Card Counting ( Whoa )
Martingale betting strategies ( WTF )
in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts. ( I kid you not )
Here is a link to the entire rules.
https://www.888.com/security-and-privacy/user-agreement-uk.htm#par1
And here's the bit about fraudulent activities (bolding is mine)
Quote: 888 casino rules
The following are some examples of "fraudulent or unlawful activity":
Illegal Funds: Where the source of funds used by you for gambling on the Sites are illegal or where you use the Services in any way as a money transfer system or where we reasonably suspect that you may be engaging in money laundering activities, including use of the proceeds of crime.
Unfair Betting Techniques: Utilising any recognised betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in our games, which includes but is not limited to martingale betting strategies, card counting as well as low risk betting in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts.
Idiots!
Does anyone know if the casinos they are affiliated with in NJ have the same rules?Quote: OnceDearLOL. It's official.
"Martingale betting stategies" is defined as a "fraudulent or unlawful activity" by this casino. So is "card counting!"
So are other "low risk strategies !!!"
I just had reason to revisit the rules of what used to be my preferred online casino ( until they chucked me out )
They have a rule that basically says that if they deem your wagering to be "fraudulent or unlawful", they will close your account and you will forfeit any balance of deposits and winnings still in the account. They cite a few examples of such "fraudulent or unlawful" activities.
Chargebacks (fair enough)
Collusion (fair enough)
Card Counting ( Whoa )
Martingale betting strategies ( WTF )
in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts. ( I kid you not )
Here is a link to the entire rules.
https://www.888.com/security-and-privacy/user-agreement-uk.htm#par1
And here's the bit about fraudulent activities (bolding is mine)Quote: 888 casino rules
The following are some examples of "fraudulent or unlawful activity":
Illegal Funds: Where the source of funds used by you for gambling on the Sites are illegal or where you use the Services in any way as a money transfer system or where we reasonably suspect that you may be engaging in money laundering activities, including use of the proceeds of crime.
Unfair Betting Techniques: Utilising any recognised betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in our games, which includes but is not limited to martingale betting strategies, card counting as well as low risk betting in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts.
Idiots!
Payouts http://www.ecogra.org/certificates/certificate.aspx?cid=311
notice craps: is that a clerical error?
Quote: odiousgambitif it is true that even in the UK, where online gambling is not prohibited at all [right?], that this kind of BS passes for being OK with regulatory authority, .......... I'm going to disappoint Mission here............ my resolution to never gamble online feels very much re-affirmed!
Brick and mortar casinos consider betting both sides in roulette cheating as well. Organic is touting that their e-roulette machines refuse low-volatility bets and i can confírm this. Even betting every straight up number or a preponderance (still gambling but with only a few numbers uncovered) or both sides with an offset (betting $50 on red and $100 on black) is refused
Of course its because the casinos are scared of comps hustling
And of course any comps hustler needs only think 2 seconds to figure out how to overcome this.
So stupid is as stupid does
Hint: to overcome it use 2 people. Duh!
Quote: darkozQuote: odiousgambitif it is true that even in the UK, where online gambling is not prohibited at all [right?], that this kind of BS passes for being OK with regulatory authority, .......... I'm going to disappoint Mission here............ my resolution to never gamble online feels very much re-affirmed!
Brick and mortar casinos consider betting both sides in roulette cheating as well.
Please somehow show an example of this. If I am a casino this eliminates variance, thus GUARANTEEING a win for the casino. Since I know my house edge is around 5%, unless someone puts a blocker in the 0 and 00 slots, the casino can only win, and NEVER be down.
While that's true, it's also easy for a floorman to adjust the comp rate if you're on both sides of a bet. Ditto for electronic platforms.
There are two other more important reasons casinos object to betting both sides:
1 - In B&M casinos, you're taking up space. And beeping dealers busy on a low profit betting system.
2 - You can change the minimums. For example, if you bet $30 on pass, $25 on don't and $1 on boxcars, you've effectively turned a $25 table into a $6 table.
Since online casinos should be able to program the comp system better, and doesn't care about keeping seats open for big bettors, and should have micro limits, I can't see why they would object to betting both sides.
Until you realize that they also don't allow Martingaling.
Since anyone with at least half a brain knows that Martingale is a casino's best friend, it doesn't surprise me that if they're not allowing that, then they also don't allow betting both sides.
Bottom line, this casino need to have a talk with someone who understands the math.
I played on an online casino "888" a long time ago, but I also know that's where a lot of teliots articles went/etc. Is 888 the online casino that does this? You should absolutely NAME them so no one ever plays with them. Pure morons... To boot it sounds like they're just setting up the T's and C's so they can steal your money.Quote: OnceDearLOL. It's official.
"Martingale betting stategies" is defined as a "fraudulent or unlawful activity" by this casino. So is "card counting!"
So are other "low risk strategies !!!"
I just had reason to revisit the rules of what used to be my preferred online casino ( until they chucked me out )
They have a rule that basically says that if they deem your wagering to be "fraudulent or unlawful", they will close your account and you will forfeit any balance of deposits and winnings still in the account. They cite a few examples of such "fraudulent or unlawful" activities.
Chargebacks (fair enough)
Collusion (fair enough)
Card Counting ( Whoa )
Martingale betting strategies ( WTF )
in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts. ( I kid you not )
Here is a link to the entire rules.
https://www.888.com/security-and-privacy/user-agreement-uk.htm#par1
And here's the bit about fraudulent activities (bolding is mine)Quote: 888 casino rules
The following are some examples of "fraudulent or unlawful activity":
Illegal Funds: Where the source of funds used by you for gambling on the Sites are illegal or where you use the Services in any way as a money transfer system or where we reasonably suspect that you may be engaging in money laundering activities, including use of the proceeds of crime.
Unfair Betting Techniques: Utilising any recognised betting techniques to circumvent the standard house edge in our games, which includes but is not limited to martingale betting strategies, card counting as well as low risk betting in roulette such as betting on red/black in equal amounts.
Idiots!
Quote: DJTeddyBearUntil you realize that they also don't allow Martingaling.
Since anyone with at least half a brain knows that Martingale is a casino's best friend, it doesn't surprise me that if they're not allowing that, then they also don't allow betting both sides.
Bottom line, this casino need to have a talk with someone who understands the math.
It's all the more amusing that this very same casino hosts a blog where they encourage card counting...
https://www.888casino.com/blog/card-counting-trainer
I could understand if they objected to the low variance betting in conjunction with bonuses. But it sure is never "fraudulent or unlawful" activities, as per there rules.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: odiousgambitif it is true that even in the UK, where online gambling is not prohibited at all [right?], that this kind of BS passes for being OK with regulatory authority, .......... I'm going to disappoint Mission here............ my resolution to never gamble online feels very much re-affirmed!
Brick and mortar casinos consider betting both sides in roulette cheating as well.
Please somehow show an example of this. If I am a casino this eliminates variance, thus GUARANTEEING a win for the casino. Since I know my house edge is around 5%, unless someone puts a blocker in the 0 and 00 slots, the casino can only win, and NEVER be down.
I already did
Go to your b&m casino that has organic machines e-roulette and bet both red and black. Your bet is returned to you no action
If thats not evidence enough i dont know what is
Quote: darkozQuote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: odiousgambitif it is true that even in the UK, where online gambling is not prohibited at all [right?], that this kind of BS passes for being OK with regulatory authority, .......... I'm going to disappoint Mission here............ my resolution to never gamble online feels very much re-affirmed!
Brick and mortar casinos consider betting both sides in roulette cheating as well.
Please somehow show an example of this. If I am a casino this eliminates variance, thus GUARANTEEING a win for the casino. Since I know my house edge is around 5%, unless someone puts a blocker in the 0 and 00 slots, the casino can only win, and NEVER be down.
I already did
Go to your b&m casino that has organic machines e-roulette and bet both red and black. Your bet is returned to you no action
If thats not evidence enough i dont know what is
To me that is evidence of a STUPID casino.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: SOOPOOQuote: darkozQuote: odiousgambitif it is true that even in the UK, where online gambling is not prohibited at all [right?], that this kind of BS passes for being OK with regulatory authority, .......... I'm going to disappoint Mission here............ my resolution to never gamble online feels very much re-affirmed!
Brick and mortar casinos consider betting both sides in roulette cheating as well.
Please somehow show an example of this. If I am a casino this eliminates variance, thus GUARANTEEING a win for the casino. Since I know my house edge is around 5%, unless someone puts a blocker in the 0 and 00 slots, the casino can only win, and NEVER be down.
I already did
Go to your b&m casino that has organic machines e-roulette and bet both red and black. Your bet is returned to you no action
If thats not evidence enough i dont know what is
To me that is evidence of a STUPID casino.
Here i will save u the trouble
http://www.interblockgaming.com/product/automated/automated-roulette/
Scroll down to "simultaneous bet prevention" about 3 subjects down
I guess organic is a STUPID company
Quote: DJTeddyBearComp hustling?
While that's true, it's also easy for a floorman to adjust the comp rate if you're on both sides of a bet. Ditto for electronic platforms.
There are two other more important reasons casinos object to betting both sides:
1 - In B&M casinos, you're taking up space. And beeping dealers busy on a low profit betting system.
2 - You can change the minimums. For example, if you bet $30 on pass, $25 on don't and $1 on boxcars, you've effectively turned a $25 table into a $6 table.
Since online casinos should be able to program the comp system better, and doesn't care about keeping seats open for big bettors, and should have micro limits, I can't see why they would object to betting both sides.
Until you realize that they also don't allow Martingaling.
Since anyone with at least half a brain knows that Martingale is a casino's best friend, it doesn't surprise me that if they're not allowing that, then they also don't allow betting both sides.
Bottom line, this casino need to have a talk with someone who understands the math.
Expected loss is 5.26% correct. During a gambling session a player may lose that or may get lucky
A comp hustler betting both sides is guaranteeing that loss we all agree
So why would a floorman feel that was cheating?
In essence "player one is maybe going to lose to me but that comp guy is definitely giving me his money and i dont like fhat"
But thats how casino people think
And we know simultaneous bet prevention is so easily overcome by just playing 2 seats with a confederate
Then its obvious who organic is trying to convince this is in any way meaningful...B&M casino operators
They explicitly state the reasoning for thisQuote: darkoz
Here i will save u the trouble
http://www.interblockgaming.com/product/automated/automated-roulette/
Scroll down to "simultaneous bet prevention" about 3 subjects down
I guess organic is a STUPID company
http://www.interblockgaming.com/interblock-unveils-landmark-simultaneous-bet-prevention-technology/
... protecting the house from players who are racking up valuable points due to revenue-neutral playing....
“Some players try to run up club points and/or free play credits without winning or risking losing, simply by placing simultaneous bets that balance each other out. Interblock’s innovative Simultaneous Bet Prevention Technology protects operators by preventing this from happening,” ...
The technology also prevents players from occupying a seat that could be used by a legitimate player, and it protects earnings by making it impossible for a player to receive unearned credits and convert them to cash.
They're still idiots.
Quote: OnceDearThey explicitly state the reasoning for this
http://www.interblockgaming.com/interblock-unveils-landmark-simultaneous-bet-prevention-technology/
... protecting the house from players who are racking up valuable points due to revenue-neutral playing....
“Some players try to run up club points and/or free play credits without winning or risking losing, simply by placing simultaneous bets that balance each other out. Interblock’s innovative Simultaneous Bet Prevention Technology protects operators by preventing this from happening,” ...
The technology also prevents players from occupying a seat that could be used by a legitimate player, and it protects earnings by making it impossible for a player to receive unearned credits and convert them to cash.
They're still idiots.
Yes ie comp hustling
And easily overcome
And now comp hustlers take up 2 seats instead of one
We agree. Stupid
Its also a lie. Players dont guarantee they cant lose. In fact they guarantee they will lose and cant win
Soooo. Organic is stupid. Or they are catering to B&M casinos that are stupid
Either way i stand by my original point. All casinos online n B&M see it as cheating
Quote: darkozYes ie comp hustling
And easily overcome
And now comp hustlers take up 2 seats instead of one
We agree. Stupid
So,
Scenario 1: Hustler sits and plays ten thousand spins each time $1 on red. On average, he loses 10,000x(2/38)= $526. Let's say he gets comp play at 0.1% of action and. So his net loss is $526-$10=$516
Scenario 2: Hustler sits and plays five thousand spins each time $1 on red and $1 on black. On average, he loses 10,000x(2/38)= $526. Let's say he gets comp play at 0.1% of action. So his net loss is $526-$10=$516
Scenario2 he took half as long to lose the same amount. There was far less variance with scenario 2. There was ZERO probability that he would win anything. He'd have had less time to consume free drinks.
I'd embrace the low variance hustler and give him VIP status.
Quote: OnceDear
I'd embrace the low variance hustler and give him VIP status.
Absolutely
Dear "comp hustlers"
Please bet both red and black simultaneously in roulette. The house edge is 5.26% and in the long run there is nothing, nothing you or we can do to change the HE. However, if you bet both red and black, you are betting twice as much as you would have to and we then get 5.26% of twice as much, guaranteed, no sweating any variance for us. But we might tell the pit bosses to only rate you one way, for half your action, because we like to come out ahead even better. Some hustler you are!
Sincerely,
Your Casino
Quote: odiousgambitAbsolutely
Dear "comp hustlers"
Please bet both red and black simultaneously in roulette. The house edge is 5.26% and in the long run there is nothing, nothing you or we can do to change the HE. However, if you bet both red and black, you are betting twice as much as you would have to and we then get 5.26% of twice as much, guaranteed, no sweating any variance for us. But we might tell the pit bosses to only rate you one way, for half your action, because we like to come out ahead even better. Some hustler you are!
Sincerely,
Your Casino
If you think a comp hustler cannot make tons of money doing this you are wrong. In the past i have made quite a bit.
You do risk hosts lowering your rating. A good comp hustler can figure out ways to fool the hosts. Its not that difficult
Quote: RomesI played on an online casino "888" a long time ago, but I also know that's where a lot of teliots articles went/etc. Is 888 the online casino that does this? You should absolutely NAME them so no one ever plays with them. Pure morons... To boot it sounds like they're just setting up the T's and C's so they can steal your money.
I enjoy EJ's book, but I think the fact that his articles are where they are tell you all you need to know about where his priorities lie.
Same thing happened on roulette with red/black bets, although I didn't deal that game too much. (I was paying 17:1 on corners for the better part of an hour once. Woops.)
Indeedy. 888Casino, with other brands badged as Cassava Enterprises. They adopted Elliot J as one of their blog writers, by the looks. He seemed to have free reign to write AP articles, regardless of their own operational rules.Quote: RomesI played on an online casino "888" a long time ago, but I also know that's where a lot of teliots articles went/etc. Is 888 the online casino that does this? You should absolutely NAME them so no one ever plays with them. Pure morons... To boot it sounds like they're just setting up the T's and C's so they can steal your money.
https://www.888casino.com/blog/apheat/all-apheat-posts
Quote: AxelWolfA good comp hustler can figure out ways to keep stuff private.
My AP book is almost finished :)
They had one of the best CPA affiliate programs at one time. They gave the affiliate $200 for a new player who deposited $50 at the casino and they gave $150 for the poker room.
Quote: AxelWolfIIRC casino 888 used to be casino-on-net.
Correct.
While Matinagle may not work when things are truly random, who knows what someone may have figured out regarding their software.
If you want to hustle comps at Craps or Roullette (Craps is better), just get a parter at the other side of a crowded table and don't know each other. Duh.
Of course. Except a billionaire martingaling might not be the best choice of guest.Quote: Lucca3927Well if it was my casino I'd let you use the Martingdale method until the end of time since disaster would befall you long before then.
If you want to hustle comps at Craps or Roullette (Craps is better), just get a parter at the other side of a crowded table and don't know each other. Duh.
If the casino said that they would restrict bonuses to players that Marty or bet low risk, then that would be perfectly reasonable. But to quote those practices as fraudulent practices is to redefine 'fraud' and to then claim the right to seize all funds is just plain wrong.
Quote: darkozIf you think a comp hustler cannot make tons of money doing this you are wrong.
I could see it being a good move if you are getting over-comped. I am less impressed by just a need to have no variance, while -EV on those bets. But I am all ears if there is something I am missing otherwise.
The schizophrenic thing is the 888 casino appears on Google search on the opposite side. They act as the “Good Samaritan” for players. They strongly recommend that the gamblers stay away from martingaling! If martingaling is bad for the players, why punish them for using it?! Let the gamblers lose the shirts off their backs!!!
I read years ago about the chairman of MGM Grand or Caesar’s. On one hand, he condemned Martingale betting. At the same time, he threatened that the gamblers using martingaling would be banned in Nevada (refusal of service).
Plain and simple, the online casinos behave like bandits. They invent all kinds of pretexts to seize people’s money. See how hard they make it to withdraw your funds? Their fees are outrageous. You must keep the money in your online account until you lose it all. That’s what they really want. And now this BS pretext, martingaling!!!
sure he is, the casino can set their max bet so that the billionaire can't force them to over bet their bankroll.
Quote: AxelWolfAside from bonuses, the only reason I can think of that they don't want you betting both sides of roulette online is because they cant gaff the RNG whenever you do that. They are not happy with 5%.
It's because back in the day, 888 and others offered 100%+ bonuses with 2x rollover. Word got out and tons of people started offsetting roulette bets and guaranteeing a win. The casinos should have figured out that the rollover requirements were way too low. Instead they decided it was the magical offsetting bets causing them to lose. So they added a restriction for offsetting bets. Whatever, their stupidity bought us bonus whores lots more time.
