is New Jersey's online gambling a failure?
Revenue from legal online gambling in New Jersey was $11.9 million in March. That’s up 15 percent from February, leading to tax revenues of $1.8 million. That means that at this rate, the state will collect only $12 million or so for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2014. That’s compared to the original $180M forecast by the Governor Christie administration, their $160M revised forecast a year ago, and their most recent estimate of $34M.
Is it fair to say that Jersey's experiment with legal online gambling is a failure? Is it too early to tell? Why isn't legal online gambling more popular? Will the industry bounce back?
It should also be noted that the on-line casinos have limited table games. You have to visit every on-line casino to see what games are available.
Quote: FatGeezusOne of the things that they need to do is to link on-line accounts with 'player cards' to earn tier and reward credits.
I thought this was already happening. According to this site, and this one, Ceasars' customers are able to earn (and redeem) Total Rewards credits playing online.
I get it if you're a mile from the border, but why is location a problem 20 miles inland?
But even if they get it reliably to 1 mile, that's still a lot of people in the grey area.
Quote: renoI thought this was already happening. According to this site, and this one, Ceasars' customers are able to earn (and redeem) Total Rewards credits playing online.
I have played poker on 888, which is a Caesar's site and I have yet to earn 1 credit.
I have also played on-line at Borgata, Trop, Trump Plaza and Golden Nugget and have never earned 1 credit. In fact they don't even ask if you have a players card.
Quote: FatGeezusQuote: renoI thought this was already happening. According to this site, and this one, Ceasars' customers are able to earn (and redeem) Total Rewards credits playing online.
I have played poker on 888, which is a Caesar's site and I have yet to earn 1 credit.
I have also played on-line at Borgata, Trop, Trump Plaza and Golden Nugget and have never earned 1 credit. In fact they don't even ask if you have a players card.
888 isn't a Caesars site, they use a license under them. There is no corporate ownership association.
None of the sites have connected players cards, although WSOP will match Total Reward tiers if you maintain a level for 4 months. I feel that is a failure by the sites. The problem is that the casinos do not fully own the interactive companies and all of them are paying royalties to software providers and 15% in tax.
Quote: PokeraddictNone of the sites have connected players cards, although WSOP will match Total Reward tiers if you maintain a level for 4 months. I feel that is a failure by the sites. The problem is that the casinos do not fully own the interactive companies and all of them are paying royalties to software providers and 15% in tax.
I stand corrected. Thanks for clarifying that. You're right, this is a failure. Even if Ceasars only owns a portion of their online gaming division, they should figure out a way to better incorporate Total Rewards into online gaming. (Funny thing is that on the Las Vegas Strip, Caesars no longer owns all of Bally's and the Quad, though both still accept Total Rewards.)
Either Ceasars wants online gambling to succeed or they don't. If they want it to succeed, they need to take it seriously and reward the players. Duh. Harrah's/Caesars has been operating casinos for over 60 years, they should know this.
Station Casinos owns 57% of Ultimate Gaming at last report. The Borgata arrangement has bwin.party owning 65% of the interactive company assuming they stuck to the same agreement they made a couple of years ago. I have never seen anything to say otherwise.
Then you have 888 getting royalties from WSOP. IGT, SHFL and Bally are getting royalties or some sort of lease from the NJ casino games, etc, etc.
This is what happened when the US thought it was better to bury its head in the sand and act like online gambling didn't exist for 7 years. AFAIK the only two companies that own their own poker software are Ultimate and South Point. It is probably not a coincidence that most players would describe these platforms as the bottom two in terms of quality. The one South Point released is borderline unplayable. No NJ B&M operators own their casino platform.
Quote: PokeraddictQuote: FatGeezusQuote: renoI thought this was already happening. According to this site, and this one, Ceasars' customers are able to earn (and redeem) Total Rewards credits playing online.
I have played poker on 888, which is a Caesar's site and I have yet to earn 1 credit.
I have also played on-line at Borgata, Trop, Trump Plaza and Golden Nugget and have never earned 1 credit. In fact they don't even ask if you have a players card.
888 isn't a Caesars site, they use a license under them. There is no corporate ownership association.
None of the sites have connected players cards, although WSOP will match Total Reward tiers if you maintain a level for 4 months. I feel that is a failure by the sites. The problem is that the casinos do not fully own the interactive companies and all of them are paying royalties to software providers and 15% in tax.
I can go to Caesars to pick up my winnings. When it comes to NJ on-line gambling, let's just say that 888 is under the Caesars umbrella.
First you are asking if the NJ Online experiment is a failure. I think it is far too early to tell but the numbers are increasing, though not at the level casino owners and Gov Christy thought they would be. The bigger question is if the numbers are coming from in-house players staying home or if they are adding new players. Again only time will tell and anything that stems the loses in revenue at AC's casinos is a plus.
Second you are talking about who owns the actual sites in NJ and for that I really cannot comment as I cannot play being in PA and have not bothered while traveling to NJ.
As for the US keeping its head in the sand, that is a debate for another time because my thoughts are let it go for too long before busting sites that we now know were far from honest with players. I personally agree with decisions made to not allow these companies to have licenses in NJ based on their past actions.
And if NJ does fail with online gaming, what does that mean for the future of online gaming as a whole?
Sports betting people probably would want and the only thing unique I would want. Bringing lottery online would be something too but then the same problem of protecting the status quo of the system.
Quote: GWAEI personally never expected it to go well or at least as well as they thought. In my opinion the majority of the people who gamble would prefer to gamble in a casino. Older people don't want to sit at home and play. Going to a casino is a reason for them to get out of the house. Once they allow poker country wide or even world wide then it may take off.
Agree and +1. Make OL-Poker legal, and the rest will fill-out well.
1978 - mid 90's, AC was an East Coast monopoly on gambling. All gamblers from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, Maryland and Massachusetts took the drive or busses to get there because the only other game was not in town but on the other side of the country.
Now New York gamblers gamble in New York.
Connecticut gamblers gamble in Connecticut
Pennsylvania gamblers gamble in Pennsylvania
Delaware gamblers gamble in Delaware
Virginia and Maryland gamblers gamble in Maryland
No one wants to travel hours when they can travel minutes.
The only people who gamble in New Jersey are people who live in New Jersey.
So what does on-line gambling in New Jersey do? Since it can only be played in New Jersey, it only attracts people who live in New Jersey. How has that solved the one major reason why Atlantic City is failing?
Quote: darkozAs someone who lives in NYC, I knew this would be a failure because it does not address the major (perhaps sole) reason for Atlantic City's downfall.
1978 - mid 90's, AC was an East Coast monopoly on gambling. All gamblers from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, Maryland and Massachusetts took the drive or busses to get there because the only other game was not in town but on the other side of the country.
Now New York gamblers gamble in New York.
Connecticut gamblers gamble in Connecticut
Pennsylvania gamblers gamble in Pennsylvania
Delaware gamblers gamble in Delaware
Virginia and Maryland gamblers gamble in Maryland
No one wants to travel hours when they can travel minutes.
The only people who gamble in New Jersey are people who live in New Jersey.
So what does on-line gambling in New Jersey do? Since it can only be played in New Jersey, it only attracts people who live in New Jersey. How has that solved the one major reason why Atlantic City is failing?
Something of an exaggeration in all counts. Especially for poker players. New Yorkers do go to AC to play poker.
Quote: darkozThe only people who gamble in New Jersey are people who live in New Jersey.
The next time that you are in AC, take a look at all of the out-of state cars in the parking garages. You might want to change your statement.
Quote: Lemieux66Something of an exaggeration in all counts. Especially for poker players. New Yorkers do go to AC to play poker.
New Yorkers also go to AC for the hotel experience which we can't get comped here (the two local casinos do not have attached hotels.)
But still, the busses are empty. Only on weekends during the summer months do I see an upsurge. I was on one AC bus on a Wednesday afternoon and there were six people on the bus including myself.
The casinos were dead while their New York counterparts were hopping. They need more than poker players and seasonal hotel guests to make their monthly nut.
Quote: darkozNew Yorkers also go to AC for the hotel experience which we can't get comped here (the two local casinos do not have attached hotels.)
But still, the busses are empty. Only on weekends during the summer months do I see an upsurge. I was on one AC bus on a Wednesday afternoon and there were six people on the bus including myself.
The casinos were dead while their New York counterparts were hopping. They need more than poker players and seasonal hotel guests to make their monthly nut.
Well you went during a very dead period. I got on a 9am bus Thursday morning with about 20 people. They have people, just not enough.
A major attitudinal adjustment and $5 tables would go a long, long way.Quote: darkozThe casinos were dead while their New York counterparts were hopping. They need more than poker players and seasonal hotel guests to make their monthly nut.
Quote: beachbumbabsI think it's an investment at the moment, not a revenue source, and the reason is political. Since, at the moment, there can't be interstate wagering, the NJ online system is limited to NJ. However, the MINUTE they modify the UIGEA (or whatever the federal law is) to allow national and/or international wagering, NJ is up and running. And you know it's coming, with 47 (I think it is) states now allowing some form of gambling. Why travel even minutes when you can sit down at your computer and gamble with no overhead (driving, parking, tips, dining)? That will be attractive to some people. (Me, I like B&M).
The DOJ published an opinion in 2011 that interstate gambling was legal as long as it is regulated and agreed upon by both states and does not involve sports betting. Delaware and Nevada have already signed a partnership. Online poker between the two states is expected to merge on at least one platform later this year.
