BitCoin
Quote: EvenBobWhy is this always such a shock. The only real use for Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies is crime or hiding assets. My understanding is Bitcoin, if you own it, is almost impossible to trace. Of course I do not understand anything so what do I know. LOL
Yep again you proved you don't.
Every Bitcoin transaction in the history of Bitcoin is open for scrutiny on the Blockchain (which I have asked EB if he understands and he refused to answer) and EB thinks Bitcoin is impossible to trace.
This comedy isn't even funny anymore.
EDIT: Just last week some cyber criminals thought the same thing and the FBI traced and recouped nearly everything within a week. SMH
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-seizes-23-million-cryptocurrency-paid-ransomware-extortionists-darkside
Wow! EB's idea of untraceable!
Quote: EvenBobThere were blackjack card counters long long before Thorpe. Thorpe did not invent card counting, far from it. All he did was proved that the math worked. The card counters who knew what he was doing begged him not to write the book because it would ruin them. And it did, they were almost put out of business by Thorpe's book.
Why would he care. He was an academic. And he did the same thing with the stock market. Spawned a generation of quants beating the market.
Quote: darkozYep again you proved you don't.
Yep, I got it backwards. Bitcoin is anonymous not untraceable. It is only untraceable to you if you remain anonymous.
"Bitcoin is anonymous in the sense that you can hold a Bitcoin address without revealing anything about your identity in that address. One person could hold multiple addresses, and in theory, there would be nothing to link those addresses together, or to indicate that the person owned them."
This is what makes it so appealing to the criminal element, they can hide their ties to owning Bitcoin.
Quote: unJonWhy would he care. He was an academic. .
My point was people think you have to be some kind of a math whiz to beat a casino game and the opposite is true. Halfway intelligent people can beat a game just by paying attention to it, they don't need to know a thing about math. I'm walking proof of that.
As DarkOz points out, it is inherently incredibly traceable. The very blockchain records time, value, address and even the address of where any change is sent to, Analysis of that is open to anyone forever. And where ANY address gets linked to you, your entire transaction history can be too. Yes. it's anonymous within the blockchain, but the transit of any partial coin can be discerned from the day the coin was created. At the exchange where you convert to or from fiat, your identity is linked to your funds to fill the picture. It's like every time you spend your hundred dollar bill, or break it for change, 'the man' notes the time date and transaction value and ALL the serial numbers of all the notes involved.Quote: EvenBobMy understanding is Bitcoin, if you own it, is almost impossible to trace. Of course I do not understand anything so what do I know. LOL
Quote: OnceDearAs DarkOz points out, it is inherently incredibly traceable. The very blockchain records time, value, address and even the address of where any change is sent to, Analysis of that is open to anyone forever. And where ANY address gets linked to you, your entire transaction history can be too. Yes. it's anonymous within the blockchain, but the transit of any partial coin can be discerned from the day the coin was created. At the exchange where you convert to or from fiat, your identity is linked to your funds to fill the picture. It's like every time you spend your hundred dollar bill, or break it for change, 'the man' notes the time date and transaction value and ALL the serial numbers of all the notes involved.
What is fascinating is EB's trusted US dollar is one of the ultimate untraceable currencies
Al Capone anyone? The guy spent so much untraceable criminal enterprise money they could only get him for not paying taxes on it.
Do you know the full transaction history of a single bill in your pocket?
Quote: OnceDearYes. it's anonymous within the blockchain, but the transit of any partial coin can be discerned
"Don't send money from your own wallet to Bob. Send it directly from MtGox. That way, it is not associated with your wallet (just with MtGox, whose wallet is shared by half of the Bitcoin world). All these online wallet services are essentially anonymizing mixers. One might argue that then MtGox knows that you sent money to Bob, but a) they don't care, b) if they care, they don't know that the address you sent to belongs to Bob."
Quote: darkozWhat is fascinating is EB's trusted US dollar is one of the ultimate untraceable currencies
You mean cash is untraceable? Ohmygod stop the presses! Is that why drug dealers like to deal in cash? Oh my God, I think you're onto something. Does the FBI know this? snicker..
Quote: EvenBobYou mean cash is untraceable? Ohmygod stop the presses! Is that why drug dealers like to deal in cash? Oh my God, I think you're onto something. Does the FBI know this? snicker..
I'm glad to be of service.
Sorry it took so long for you to understand.
Now that I have educated you on how cash works, let's work on teaching you Bitcoin
Quote: darkoz
Sorry it took so long for you to understand.
I learned about cash in the TV show The Untouchables in the late 1950s. And I already know about Bitcoin, I just explained how easy it is to hide your transactions in Bitcoin. It's easy peasy, that's why criminals love it.
Quote: EvenBobI learned about cash in the TV show The Untouchables in the late 1950s. And I already know about Bitcoin, I just explained how easy it is to hide your transactions in Bitcoin. It's easy peasy, that's why criminals love it.
TV shows from the 1950's were your education?
Lol. I rarely make it through those shows. They usually stretch reality to the breaking point.
I suppose you think cops taste illicit white powder on their lips and tongue to see if it's cocaine as well?
How can they easily correct the problem entirely, do tell? You are just making that up.Quote: EvenBobYet they do not correct the problem entirely, which we both know they could do. Easily. They do not correct the problem entirely because even with people like you monkeying with the system they still make money, they still make lots of money. They are fully aware of people like you and will correct things within the framework of still keeping the program's going. To them you are flies buzzing around and they tolerate you, up to a point. If they were aware of what I do they would go berserk like they did when Thorpe's book came out. But they have no idea I even exist.
Quote: AxelWolfHow can they easily correct the problem entirely, do tell?
The casino could stop offering whatever it is you and others are exploiting. The casino keeps offering them because you are not hurting them enough for them to stop. In fact you are probably built into the equation.
Quote: EvenBobThe casino could stop offering whatever it is you and others are exploiting. The casino keeps offering them because you are not hurting them enough for them to stop. In fact you are probably built into the equation.
This is like the third subject in this thread you don't understand.
Most AP's make certain the Casinos simply don't know about them. And trust me, the few times Casinos found out what I was doing they worked very hard to stop me including sending my photo to other properties, involving the police (who were powerless to get involved in something not illegal).
I have a twenty page document of inter Casino chatter about me including surveillance and discussion of my methodology (their suspicion is usually wrong and quite laughable. They really are clueless) which they handed over as part of discovery in a court case (yes, they took me to court and they lost but according to you they just tolerate us)
But to say they don't even care about AP's is very ignorant on the subject. This whole forum has had discussion of Casino tactics to stop AP's for years and you just choose to ignore that.
Really shameful!
I don't know where that quote is from, buy FYI,Quote: EvenBob"Don't send money from your own wallet to Bob. Send it directly from MtGox. That way, it is not associated with your wallet (just with MtGox, whose wallet is shared by half of the Bitcoin world). All these online wallet services are essentially anonymizing mixers. One might argue that then MtGox knows that you sent money to Bob, but a) they don't care, b) if they care, they don't know that the address you sent to belongs to Bob."
1) MTGox folded in 2014
2) If you are sending BTC to Bob's MtGox address, of course they would have known that it belonged to Bob. How else would they know of Bob's entitlement to those funds at a later date?
It is true that online wallet services do fairly effective anonymising as seen from the outside world. A bit like paying marked dollar bills with known serial numbers into your bank and drawing out different dollar bills the next day.
the link is an excellent Q & A re Crypto with a very powerful and bright woman who has been high up in the finance food chain for some time
she is now running a Crypto Fund for a large venture capitalist firm and has attracted billions of dollars to her fund
of course, I would say she has a bias on the go go Crypto side, but still, her opinions are definitely worth taking a look at
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/cryptocurrency/cryptos-top-vc-is-playing-the-long-game-7096031.html?utm_source=flipboard&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=flipboard-magazine
.
I was confused when he mentioned MTGox and thought perhaps I missed something regarding their return.Quote: OnceDearI don't know where that quote is from, buy FYI,
1) MTGox folded in 2014
2) If you are sending BTC to Bob's MtGox address, of course they would have known that it belonged to Bob. How else would they know of Bob's entitlement to those funds at a later date?
It is true that online wallet services do fairly effective anonymising as seen from the outside world. A bit like paying marked dollar bills with known serial numbers into your bank and drawing out different dollar bills the next day.
It must suck to know so little about something and yet be so determined to dump on it that you end up resorting to posting things that make it even more clear you have no clue.
Does it ever get tiring acting as if you have knowledge about things you clearly don't?Quote: EvenBobThe casino could stop offering whatever it is you and others are exploiting. The casino keeps offering them because you are not hurting them enough for them to stop. In fact you are probably built into the equation.
Quote: DRichI heard Jim Cramer of CNBC say today that he is back in Crypto. He likes Ethereum because people are starting to use it in purchasing transactions.
I read there are currently over 5000 cryptos with more coming online everyday. This is a major reason it will never go anywhere significant. There is absolutely no regulation and all crypto has no intrinsic value. It is simply a computer program. That's it. You cannot hold it in your hand like you can a dollar bill, or a gold nugget. At least with a dollar you could at one time exchange it for gold. It said so right on the bill. You cannot exchange crypto for anything because it's property, not currency. If you have a $1,000 baseball card take it to Walmart give it to the cashier when you check out. Same thing with Crypto, she will have no idea what to do with it.
Quote: EvenBobI read there are currently over 5000 cryptos with more coming online everyday. This is a major reason it will never go anywhere significant. There is absolutely no regulation and all crypto has no intrinsic value. It is simply a computer program. That's it. You cannot hold it in your hand like you can a dollar bill, or a gold nugget. At least with a dollar you could at one time exchange it for gold. It said so right on the bill. You cannot exchange crypto for anything because it's property, not currency. If you have a $1,000 baseball card take it to Walmart give it to the cashier when you check out. Same thing with Crypto, she will have no idea what to do with it.
There are over 15,000 businesses that except Bitcoin transactions for sales but I agree that it isn't commonly accepted.
Ether is the second most accepted cryptocurrency right after Bitcoin. If we compare the acceptance of Bitcoin to Ether, it is rather less. However, its popularity has grown significantly in a short period of time compared to any other cryptocurrency in the market.
Some of the major companies where you can make purchases using Ether include Overstock, Gipsybee, and Shopify.
To pay for your hotel and flight booking using Ether, you can use CheapAir, Tripio, Travala, or Trippki.
EGifter allows you to buy gift cards from over 300 brands including Amazon, Target, and Home Depot. You can pay for these gift cards using your Ether crypto.
Quote: DRich
EGifter allows you to buy gift cards from over 300 brands including Amazon, Target, and Home Depot. You can pay for these gift cards using your Ether crypto.
So if you buy your nephew a $100 gift card with $100 USD worth of Ether, and it falls 50% before your nephew gets the card, they will give him $100 worth of Ether worth 50 USD that you paid 100 USD for. Why would anybody buy a gift card knowing that could happen.
Quote: EvenBobSo if you buy your nephew a $100 gift card with $100 USD worth of Ether, and it falls 50% before your nephew gets the card, they will give him $100 worth of Ether worth 50 USD that you paid 100 USD for. Why would anybody buy a gift card knowing that could happen.
You have that backward, they will give him a $100usd gift card, and the Ether they have is now only worth $50. Most likely they are exchanging it for cash as soon as they get it.
Quote: DRichYou have that backward, they will give him a $100usd gift card, and the Ether they have is now only worth $50. .
That's what I said. He will give them the $100 gift card they will give him back $100 in Ether that's now worth 50 US dollars that you paid 100 US dollars for.
Huh? No. You buy him a $100 gift card, they send him a $100 gift card worth $100 of dollars ( whatever that is) Why would they give him any Ether? The vendor would assume the loss in value of what he now owns.Quote: EvenBobSo if you buy your nephew a $100 gift card with $100 USD worth of Ether, and it falls 50% before your nephew gets the card, they will give him $100 worth of Ether worth 50 USD that you paid 100 USD for. Why would anybody buy a gift card knowing that could happen.
If I knew my Ether, or bitcoin was going to drop 50% in US$ or GB£ value in the next few days I would be delighted to buy US$ or GB£ denominated gift cards. or indeed Dollar bills or Pound notes, using my ether to pay. Dump the crypto before it drops, or buy more before it appreciates.
And If I were convinced that the Fiat value of Bitcoin was going to double tomorrow, I might just buy some of them with my GB£ today
Unlike your material Dollar bills, or my Pound notes, If I owed you a bunch of value, maybe for your services in teaching me how to invest in roulette, We could strike the value of the training in bitcoin, and I could send it to you in the blink of a QR card. Our expectation of whether the value moves in my favour or yours would determine the negotiated BTC price.
I have been trading BTC for ETH a little at a time for some time now. I have been thinking about trading half my Crypto for Ethereum.Quote: DRichI heard Jim Cramer of CNBC say today that he is back in Crypto. He likes Ethereum because people are starting to use it in purchasing transactions.
Quote: OnceDearThe vendor would assume the loss in value of what he now owns.
Why would any vendor get himself in that position. The only way it would make sense would be to put the burden of the loss on the customer. Like Walmart does with shrinkage. They just tag the loss on to the prices the customer pays every time somebody shoplifts. It's the only business plan that makes sense.
The value of the gift card doesn't change just because Bitcoin dropped.
Let's say I give you $100 worth of Bitcoin and instead of a gift card you just hand me a one hundred dollar bill.
Then Bitcoin drops tomorrow by 50%>
You now have Bitcoin that was worth one hundred dollars yesterday and now is only worth fifty.
But I still have the hundred dollar bill you handed me yesterday and it's still worth $100.
Conversely if the price of Bitcoin doubled the next day you would now have $200 worth of Bitcoin and I still would only have a $100 bill.
Quote: EvenBobWhy would any vendor get himself in that position. The only way it would make sense would be to put the burden of the loss on the customer. Like Walmart does with shrinkage. They just tag the loss on to the prices the customer pays every time somebody shoplifts. It's the only business plan that makes sense.
Because if the price goes up, the vendor isn't going to refund the difference is he?
Quote: darkozBecause if the price goes up, the vendor isn't going to refund the difference is he?
That's a ridiculous position to be in and no smart businessman would do that to himself. You have to be able to know where you'll be in three months or six months or a year in order to run a business effectively. When you go into the bank to get a loan and they ask you for your three and six-month projection and you say I have no idea, you ain't gettin no loan. That's what it would be with crypto, you have no idea where it will be next week let alone 6 months from now.
Why not?Quote: EvenBobWhy would any vendor get himself in that position. The only way it would make sense would be to put the burden of the loss on the customer. Like Walmart does with shrinkage. They just tag the loss on to the prices the customer pays every time somebody shoplifts. It's the only business plan that makes sense.
I thought you knew retail. Have you heard of the concept of profit margin. In the case of the vendor accepting volatile cryptocurrency (as a kind service to their customer) , they just give the worst exchange rate they can get away with. They'd also probably hedge their currency risks.
They never see the BTC.
Quote: EvenBobThat's a ridiculous position to be in and no smart businessman would do that to himself. You have to be able to know where you'll be in three months or six months or a year in order to run a business effectively. When you go into the bank to get a loan and they ask you for your three and six-month projection and you say I have no idea, you ain't gettin no loan. That's what it would be with crypto, you have no idea where it will be next week let alone 6 months from now.
Bob, you really don't get it. The vendors that are accepting crypto are probably converting to USD as soon as they acquire it. Most of them don't want the crypto they are just making it easier for their customers to buy their goods.
I have already told you this... A vendor can have his crypto automatically converted into a cash account via a processing service that can even be cheaper than fees assisted with credit cards. They take all the risk and you get paid the $ amount you charge for the product.Quote: EvenBobThat's a ridiculous position to be in and no smart businessman would do that to himself. You have to be able to know where you'll be in three months or six months or a year in order to run a business effectively. When you go into the bank to get a loan and they ask you for your three and six-month projection and you say I have no idea, you ain't gettin no loan. That's what it would be with crypto, you have no idea where it will be next week let alone 6 months from now.
Quote: AxelWolfI have already told you this... A vendor can have his crypto automatically converted into a cash account via a processing service that can even be cheaper than fees assisted with credit cards. They take all the risk and you get paid the $ amount you charge for the product.
BUT WHY WOULD THEY DO
THAT IF ITS A REAL
CURRENCY THIS JUST PROVES
BITCOIN
SUCKS THEY WANT NOTHING TO
DO WITH IT
Liquidity. It is a means to an end.Quote: gamerfreakBUT WHY WOULD THEY DO
THAT IF ITS A REAL
CURRENCY THIS JUST PROVES
BITCOIN
SUCKS THEY WANT NOTHING TO
DO WITH IT
At our UK horse racing tracks, there are on course bookies that give odds and take bets. When faced with a big bet that makes them uncomfortable, they might 'take a position' or they MAY hedge by laying off the bets with bigger bookies. They don't want to turn the punters away.
So it is with crypto accepting vendors. They lay off the risks to where the risk appetite is. Some retailers HATE taking cash because of cash handling fees. Others hate card payments for similar reasons. Many would surely hate to accept crypto. But it's supply and demand. More means to pay might mean more market dominance.
Yes. Bitcoin sucks. But it has its place.
Quote: AxelWolfI have been trading BTC for ETH a little at a time for some time now. I have been thinking about trading half my Crypto for Ethereum.
ETH is the only crypto I ever buy. I posted many months ago I believe this will become the dominate crypto in years to come. If it does not pass bitcoin it will still close the gap in value
Quote: gamerfreakBUT WHY WOULD THEY DO
THAT IF ITS A REAL
CURRENCY THIS JUST PROVES
BITCOIN
SUCKS THEY WANT NOTHING TO
DO WITH IT
Exactly. It's a pointless game. They take Bitcoin which is basically useless and trade it for something that's useful immediately. The few car dealerships I was reading about that take Bitcoin turn it into US dollars immediately. One guy said he sold a Lamborghini for Bitcoin and forgot his password to transfer the BTC to dollars and almost had a bunch of heart attacks waiting for a new password. Yeah , that's a way to conduct business that's really going to catch on. LOL a currency so volatile you don't dare hold it longer than a few minutes.
Quote: OnceDearLiquidity. It is a means to an end.
At our UK horse racing tracks, there are on course bookies that give odds and take bets. When faced with a big bet that makes them uncomfortable, they might 'take a position' or they MAY hedge by laying off the bets with bigger bookies. They don't want to turn the punters away.
So it is with crypto accepting vendors. They lay off the risks to where the risk appetite is. Some retailers HATE taking cash because of cash handling fees. Others hate card payments for similar reasons. Many would surely hate to accept crypto. But it's supply and demand. More means to pay might mean more market dominance.
Yes. Bitcoin sucks. But it has its place.
Hopefully I didn’t need the /s
Quote: OnceDear
Yes. Bitcoin sucks. But it has its place.
Why not just use bars of soap if Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and you have to get rid of it as soon as you get it in a transaction. What's the point. At least with soap it has some value, it has a use.
They might not want the fluctuations. I can't argue that a business or individual might want to avoid that. It either fits the descriptions of a currency, or it doesn't. no matter what, it is what it is. we all know it's not sable either way. It doesn't have to be a currency to have value or be useful.Quote: gamerfreakBUT WHY WOULD THEY DO
THAT IF ITS A REAL
CURRENCY THIS JUST PROVES
BITCOIN
SUCKS THEY WANT NOTHING TO
DO WITH IT
Quote: EvenBobWhy not just use bars of soap if Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and you have to get rid of it as soon as you get it in a transaction. What's the point. At least with soap it has some value, it has a use.
It must really irk you that 15,000 businesses currently accept Bitcoin as currency for purchasing but NOT bars of soap, NOT Beanie Babies and NOT Elvis plates
You must be really straining your thought trying to explain why that is.
Give it some more thought. Saying Bitcoin is worthless over and over again won't change businesses using it as currency
Quote: AxelWolfThey might not want the fluctuations. I can't argue that a business or individual might want to avoid that. It either fits the descriptions of a currency, or it doesn't. no matter what, it is what it is. we all know it's not sable either way. It doesn't have to be a currency to have value or be useful.
I needed to tag my post as sarcasm
Quote: AxelWolfThey might not want the fluctuations.
But that is all it is, fluctuations.
Yeah, sorry you missed out(NOT!!) on the incredible upwards fluctuation from your beanie baby prediction at $150 to as high as 64k.Quote: EvenBobBut that is all it is, fluctuations.
I don't know if it was your stubbornness, lack of understanding, resistants to change, failure to change course after being wrong that made you refuse to use it at a TOOL in order to rape the online casinos while using your super-duper roulette system( IIRC I even offered to help send you some BTC to save you a step of having to acquire it via an exchange or whatever).
Quote: AxelWolfYeah, sorry you missed out(NOT!!)
I never speculate, I only put money where there is a guaranteed return. Like roulette.
Quote: EvenBobI never speculate, I only put money where there is a guaranteed return. Like roulette.
It's posts like this that make me wish there was a thumbs down button next to the thank you button
Quote: darkozIt's posts like this that make me wish there was a thumbs down button next to the thank you button
You don't like it that I only bet on sure things? It's a good habit you should try it sometime.
Quote: EvenBobYou don't like it that I only bet on sure things? It's a good habit you should try it sometime.
Every penny, nickel and dollar I have earned in the last decade came from Casinos.
I One hundred percent live off them. As well as many of my crew
There is you and there is me. One of us wins in casinos. Hint:. It isn't you!
