BitCoin
Yes. but that is balanced by MDawg telling us to chill out and Hodl.Quote: darkozIt's EB that has been saying it's going to fade to nothing.
Who should we believe? The guy who never watched as his BTC grow from $10000 to $35000 ( via $60,000 ) or the guy who sat on (allegedly) millions of dollars worth while they dropped back from 60k to 35k and spent his more valuable time day trading.
Rhetorical. Though both guys opinions are totally at odds with each-other, (and there are so many widely different opinions on BTC's future ) I assert that both can be totally wrong and totally right.... Just at different points on the graph.
Personally, I'm hodling my roughly half a BTC but with loose and shaky hands. The consensus I see is that there's real risk we will drop to $25k or $20k before any chance of a recovery. I can't see any case for being a buyer at these levels, but maybe time to wong out and buy back when they do drop.
I'm not fearful that they will implode completely. I'm not hopeful for BTC over the next few weeks/months.
ITS CALLED A SCAM.Quote: elisa1004Thanks to a professional programmer i met named ,,,,, i just made $500,000 from $10,000 BTC wallet balance, it s real and he never asked for upfront payment. he s going to double the balance with a software and ask for payment when it s done . i won t like to benefit from this alone. ,,,, contact him thank me later
Run electronic slots with bets as small as 1/1000 of a cent. Jackpots run a nickel.
Your coin value would issue credits to play with. You might have to limit cash outs to once a week to avoid excess processing. Make your rake around 7-10 percent.
Of course, all virtual gambling.
I'm sure someone with the time, knowledge, and skill could get it done for as little as that, probably even less. I did a little looking into turnkey places, the investment was much more than that. That's not to say there aren't some cheaper options out there, I just didn't come across anything.Quote: rxwineDo you think with Bitcoin, you could run your own offshore micro-casino on as little as $10,000.
Run electronic slots with bets as small as 1/1000 of a cent. Jackpots run a nickel.
Your coin value would issue credits to play with. You might have to limit cash outs to once a week to avoid excess processing. Make your rake around 7-10 percent.
Of course, all virtual gambling.
Let's assume there are no laws you have to contend with. There are over 3,000 online casinos(not everyone has open access to that many, it depends where you live). The question is.... how do you get people to play at YOUR casino in order to recoup your time, investment, and then make money? I understand that you only need a small number of players to make money, but you are competing with online casinos that have lots of money to toss at marketing and they have all the latest and greatest new fancy slots that offer huge payouts with massive bonuses. Then you have to be worried about all kinds of backdoor security stuff like glitches, holes, Advantage Players, hackers, etc.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm sure someone with the time, knowledge, and skill could get it done for as little as that, probably even less. I did a little looking into turnkey places, the investment was much more than that. That's not to say there aren't some cheaper options out there, I just didn't come across anything.
Let's assume there are no laws you have to contend with. There are over 3,000 online casinos(not everyone has open access to that many, it depends where you live). The question is.... how do you get people to play at YOUR casino in order to recoup your time, investment, and then make money? I understand that you only need a small number of players to make money, but you are competing with online casinos that have lots of money to toss at marketing and they have all the latest and greatest new fancy slots that offer huge payouts with massive bonuses. Then you have to be worried about all kinds of backdoor security stuff like glitches, holes, Advantage Players, hackers, etc.
I agree completely. The cost to set up and run wouldn't be that big but marketing it would cost a lot of money. I would expect to spend tens of thousands a month to market.
Quote: DRichI agree completely. The cost to set up and run wouldn't be that big but marketing it would cost a lot of money. I would expect to spend tens of thousands a month to market.
If I was a programmer I’d design a worthy free version of a popular app that no one offers for free but it would exclusively pimp the casino.
Quote: EvenBobFor the last 2 weeks Bitcoin has flatlined between $35,000 & $38,000. This is scaring some people because nobody's moving in and taking advantage of this low price. You have to figure that when Bitcoin has these giant drops in value it scares away untold numbers of people who just got hosed. There is not a bottomless pit of new buyers to replace them, they will run out eventually. They may be running out now
The common consensus seems to be that the price will soon break out of the range 35000 to 39000 either dramatically upwards or downwards. There's plenty of resistance both ways at the moment and I don't have the first clue which way will prevail.
Yes, Some are scared, but whales are soaking up supply from BTC from traders and holders who are running scared. At the end of the day it's totally about supply and demand. I ignore 'traders' who just oil the wheels.
For now I hodl.
Why?
Because what has always made human kidnapping so non-viable is the weak link in the transfer of funds and the risk to the kidnappers. Business ransom, is a yawn by comparison to what many people will feel once we start seeing more and more human kidnapping.
Quote: rxwineCrypto may survive, but I think the official banking system is eventually going to opt out completely?
Why would any banking system want anything to do with a currency that can and does lose half its value overnight. Banks depend on stability, it's their middle name. I put my hard-earned money in a bank because I know it's still going to be there three years from now. With crypto you don't know if it's going to be worth anything 3 years from now. Who could live like that.
Quote: EvenBobWhy would any banking system want anything to do with a currency that can and does lose half its value overnight. Banks depend on stability, it's their middle name. I put my hard-earned money in a bank because I know it's still going to be there three years from now. With crypto you don't know if it's going to be worth anything 3 years from now. Who could live like that.
Yes, banks depend on stability.
Like sub-prime mortgages to people who can't pay
Quote: darkozYes, banks depend on stability.
Like sub-prime mortgages to people who can't pay
You should read the Big Short if your haven’t. You would like it I think. But your analogy is bad. Sub-prime mortgage pressure on banks was driven largely from the appetite of others to buy the risk from the banks once the banks had securitized it.
Quote: unJonYou should read the Big Short if your haven’t. You would like it I think. But your analogy is bad. Sub-prime mortgage pressure on banks was driven largely from the appetite of others to buy the risk from the banks once the banks had securitized it.
I saw the movie. The book is more detailed I imagine
Quote: darkozYes, banks depend on stability.
Like sub-prime mortgages to people who can't pay
You should avoid finance, you have no understanding of it. You make one bad analogy after another. Subprime mortgages had nothing to do with the value of the money they were using. Bad Investments with good money is very common. Bad Investments with bad money like Bitcoin would be a super disaster. Who in the right their mind would write a mortgage on a currency that can and will lose half its value overnight. Or be worth twice the value of the mortgage in the same period of time. The whole point writing a 30-year mortgage is you can accurately figure out what the dollar is going to be worth in 30 years. With Bitcoin you can't figure out what it's going to be worth next month let alone 30 years from now.
Quote: EvenBobYou should avoid finance, you have no understanding of it. You make one bad analogy after another. Subprime mortgages had nothing to do with the value of the money they were using. Bad Investments with good money is very common. Bad Investments with bad money like Bitcoin would be a super disaster. Who in the right their mind would write a mortgage on a currency that can and will lose half its value overnight. Or be worth twice the value of the mortgage in the same period of time. The whole point writing a 30-year mortgage is you can accurately figure out what the dollar is it going to be worth in 30 years. With Bitcoin you can't figure out what it's going to be worth next month let alone 30 years from now.
I'm not taking financial advice from the guy who claims to be able to beat roulette and that it's pretty easy to do.
Quote: darkozI'm not taking financial advice from the guy
I didn't give any advice so you're safe.
Where was US currency in 1786 is the better equivalency.
And it was as expected pretty much a volatile and growing currency just ten years in. Only inflationary.
The value of the US dollar today is only about 3% of it's value in 1786. I.e. $100 in 1786 could have bought over 2000+% more items.
Will Bitcoin succeed? Who knows but it's not a flashing the pan. Flashes don't grow from $1 to $64,000 in value but volatility during initial birth pains is to be expected.
My prediction, if EB is still arguing Bitcoin is going to fail a decade from now and it hasn't, then it's going to ultimately succeed.
Quote: rxwineI’m wondering if the nature of tax evasion investigations could eventually become more intrusive to deal with crypto?
I believe the IRS has stated it will be hiring hundreds of new agents to deal with this.
Which is currently pretty much in balance.Quote: EvenBob39000 last night 36000 today, it's on a seesaw between 35 and 39. People are buying a little and as soon as it goes up they take a profit. This is never a good thing because it means there is a whole lot of fear involved.
Quote: EvenBob39000 last night 36000 today, it's on a seesaw between 35 and 39. People are buying a little and as soon as it goes up they take a profit. This is never a good thing because it means there is a whole lot of fear involved.
Could you just tell us which of these designations don't belong after your name?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_designations_in_the_United_States
It’s so hilarious the Bitcoin defenders on Twitter. You criticize even the slightest thing about it and they come out laughing at you. But I have one trick that shuts them up. I just casually ask why Bitcoin is no more readily accepted now than it was 5 years ago when everyone started talking about it. Name one retail store that accepts it? Remember Bitcoin is supposed to be a digital currency. But nobody talks about it in that context anymore. It’s all about how much money you can make, is it going back up, and the newest thing, which new 10 cent crypto is someone touting that they claim you can get rich if it just goes to a dollar.
Bitcoin is not a realistic digital currency. All it is is fees and waiting. The general public isn’t going to pay a fee everytime they make a transaction and then wait 2 hours till the other person can use it. It’s too bad. Cause under the right scenario it could work and makes sense. At a minimum something like this could put Western Union out of business. But it won’t.
Quote: SandybestdogThe other day I deposited $2000 into my Coinbase account. I had heard that Coinbase had been shutting down accounts who sent Bitcoin to online casinos. This surprised me. I’ve done it about 20x and had no problems. So I bought the Bitcoin (had to pay a fee of course) and then sent it to my Kraken wallet. I would then send it to the casino. So I sent it (pay another fee)and waited. Then I had to go do something. 5 hours later I go back to send it to the casino. It took 2.5 hours for it to confirm. But by this point Bitcoin had dropped $2000. So now the amount I wanted to send wasn’t worth the amount that I wanted to send the casino. So this morning I had to buy some more Bitcoin(pay a fee), send it to Kraken again (pay a fee), and now I’m waiting.
It’s so hilarious the Bitcoin defenders on Twitter. You criticize even the slightest thing about it and they come out laughing at you. But I have one trick that shuts them up. I just casually ask why Bitcoin is no more readily accepted now than it was 5 years ago when everyone started talking about it. Name one retail store that accepts it? Remember Bitcoin is supposed to be a digital currency. But nobody talks about it in that context anymore. It’s all about how much money you can make, is it going back up, and the newest thing, which new 10 cent crypto is someone touting that they claim you can get rich if it just goes to a dollar.
Bitcoin is not a realistic digital currency. All it is is fees and waiting. The general public isn’t going to pay a fee everytime they make a transaction and then wait 2 hours till the other person can use it. It’s too bad. Cause under the right scenario it could work and makes sense. At a minimum something like this could put Western Union out of business. But it won’t.
Doesn't the general public already pay a fee per transaction?
I know Everytime I use PayPal there is a fee. And so does Western Union.
The time issue is something that I agree needs to be fixed. Several new Crypto currencies are fixing the time and the energy issues.
I wonder if Bitcoin had risen $2,000 so you had more to gamble with if you would be so negative about it now
Quote: billryanIf you pay a fee every time you use PayPal, you are not doing it right. I'd also guess that 99% of people don't send money vis Western Union.
I log into PayPal, usually sent from a vendors website and hit the payment button.
Is there some other way to use PayPal that avoids fees?
And I am not certain I pay or the vendor pays. I don't even pay attention (no pun intended). I want the item so it is what it is.
But someone pays PayPal, I Know that.
As for Western Union I don't think they would survive with offices in every City and state if 99% of the population didn't use them, just my opinion.
Last year I probably made $4-5k depositing to online casino using my paypal business debit card, Axos card and Discover card. They give 1% cash back. These off shore casinos want bitcoin, which costs me money.
I would be because I would not have held it that long to realize the gain. I sent it to my other wallet. If it had confirmed in a couple minutes, which is reasonable, I would have then sent it thus not gaining anything. See I was actually using bitcoin for it's purpose as a digital currency, not as a speculative investment. As far as I'm concerned it delayed me a couple hours.Quote: darkoz.....
I wonder if Bitcoin had risen $2,000 so you had more to gamble with if you would be so negative about it now
Quote: SandybestdogPaypal to paypal is free. Paypal to business Paypal, the business is charged 3%. It's basically the same as a credit card merchant account. The fee is a cost of doing business. Paypal and credit cards are arguably providing a service for this. What service is being provided through Bitcoin fees? Imagine trying to convince the average consumer to pay their mortgage with bitcoin and telling them they have to pay a $4 fee. Never going to work. Bitcoin is useless as an actual currency. If it's useless as a currency, then all it is is a digital commodity backed by nothing with no real purpose.
Last year I probably made $4-5k depositing to online casino using my paypal business debit card, Axos card and Discover card. They give 1% cash back. These off shore casinos want bitcoin, which costs me money.
That last sentence sums it up. Offshore Casino want Bitcoin. So you use it.
Today on eBay there are vendors that say they only accept PayPal. So guess what? I opened a PayPal account.
Quote: darkozThat last sentence sums it up. Offshore Casino want Bitcoin. So you use it.
Today on eBay there are vendors that say they only accept PayPal. So guess what? I opened a PayPal account.
One is free for the consumer and is almost instantaneous. The other is slower and cost more. Which has the edge?
Quote: billryanOne is free for the consumer and is almost instantaneous. The other is slower and cost more. Which has the edge?
That assumes consumers understand all that.
Betamax was cheaper with better quality than VHS. Which had the edge?
3:2 blackjack is better than 6:5. Are consumers complaining.
I'm not disagreeing with the underlying argument. Just pointing out it's not always what is best for the consumer that wins in the end
Quote: darkozThat assumes consumers understand all that.
Betamax was cheaper with better quality than VHS. Which had the edge?
3:2 blackjack is better than 6:5. Are consumers complaining.
I'm not disagreeing with the underlying argument. Just pointing out it's not always what is best for the consumer that wins in the end
Wow. Now all you have to do is follow that thought to its natural conclusion.
Quote: billryanWow. Now all you have to do is follow that thought to its natural conclusion.
Bitcoin has more digital bits than Betamax?
at least 12,000 showed up to celebrate and discuss and trade Crypto and Bitcoin at a Conference in Miami - this story is before the event - the better story that I could find after the event I didn't link because it's behind a NYT paywall
the Mayor of Miami, Francis Suarez, has announced that the city will now accept Bitcoin for tax payments
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article251719833.html
*
You can't use Paypal on most offshore casinos. You are restricted to how much you can send and receive with Paypal. Lots of people have had problems with PayPal. you can use BTC without ever having to verify anything or worry about any BS restriction or verification. You can use BTC at a large majority of online casinos. Many online casinos don't have a fee for using bitcoin or it's a very small miners fee. The deposit is instant at many online casinos. Oftentimes, the casinos have bigger and better bonuses when using BTC over most other methods that's worth way more than 1%/ 4 or 5k in a year( try thousands in value per deposit in some cases) . Using a credit card and other methods is a real pain in the ass since you have to send in CC verification documents when you want to cash out, which can take days or weeks in some cases. When using bitcoin there are some online casinos where everything is instant regarding deposits and cashouts. I have no clue how many billion's per year offshore online gambling is worth, but they like BTC. BTC it's certainly the best thing that's happened to online casinos since Neteller.Quote: billryanOne is free for the consumer and is almost instantaneous. The other is slower and cost more. Which has the edge?
I dont know what BitCoin will be worth in the future, or it what it will be used for, but as long as it's somthing that I can use to trade for cash or things of value, then I'm going to use it. for me, it's way better than PayPal and other types of payment methods for exchanging money or making deposits. One can avoid the fluctuations by selling it, tethering it, or converting it into your cash account on an exchange.
Axel - other than online casinos -
in general, buying stuff - what advantages does BTC have over a credit card?
I can't think of any
online, I have never had any business refuse my credit card or even delay a transaction while using it
although, I don't use them, I know that credit cards now offer several different ways to move money from one person to another
BTC is not a stable currency - the U.S. dollar is
no matter what you say - unless you never sleep - if you have $20,000 worth of BTC you cannot be sure that when you wake up it will not only be worth $16,000
*
Quote: AxelWolfYou can't use Paypal on most offshore casinos. You are restricted to how much you can send and receive with Paypal. Lots of people have had problems with PayPal. you can use BTC without ever having to verify anything or worry about any BS restriction or verification. You can use BTC at a large majority of online casinos. Many online casinos don't have a fee for using bitcoin or it's a very small miners fee. The deposit is instant at many online casinos. Oftentimes, the casinos have bigger and better bonuses when using BTC over most other methods that's worth way more than 1%/ 4 or 5k in a year( try thousands in value per deposit in some cases) . Using a credit card and other methods is a real pain in the ass since you have to send in CC verification documents when you want to cash out, which can take days or weeks in some cases. When using bitcoin there are some online casinos where everything is instant regarding deposits and cashouts. I have no clue how many billion's per year offshore online gambling is worth, but they like BTC. BTC it's certainly the best thing that's happened to online casinos since Neteller.
I dont know what BitCoin will be worth in the future, or it what it will be used for, but as long as it's somthing that I can use to trade for cash or things of value, then I'm going to use it. for me, it's way better than PayPal and other types of payment methods for exchanging money or making deposits. One can avoid the fluctuations by selling it, tethering it, or converting it into your cash account on an exchange.
Has your Paypal account ever dropped 40% in a week due to unforeseen circumstances?
Quote: billryanHas your Paypal account ever dropped 40% in a week due to unforeseen circumstances?
Aren't you the one who said PayPal went into bank accounts and reversed charges?
Not, but it has also never gone up in value either. Back when Bob told us it was nothing but beanie babies the price was under $200 per coin. by the end of that year, it had gone up to over $900 and now it's at $35000.Quote: billryanHas your Paypal account ever dropped 40% in a week due to unforeseen circumstances?
As I said, One can avoid the fluctuations by selling it, tethering it, or converting it into your cash account on an exchange.
If you stay off the exchanges, unlike PayPal, no one but you ever has any control over your bitcoin.
Quote: AxelWolfNot, but it has also never gone up in value either. Back when Bob told us it was nothing but beanie babies the price was under $200 per coin. by the end of that year, it had gone up to over $900 and now it's at $35000.
As I said, One can avoid the fluctuations by selling it, tethering it, or converting it into your cash account on an exchange.
If you stay off the exchanges, unlike PayPal, no one but you ever has any control over your bitcoin.
Past performance is meaningless. Bitcoin going from $1 to $60,000 is like rolling a dozen yos. You've made a lot of money on the roll but would you let it all ride on the next roll or take some profits?
In the topsy-turvy world of crypto speculation, there were more buyers at $60,000 than there are now at $35,500. Irrational.
I have already taken profits, I have been selling for some time now, I never invested much cash into BTC I was using it for various things including online casinos, whatever profits I made or whatever someone sent me for whatever reason I just kept it in BTC, I did buy some when it went to 5k right after the covid, panic and perhaps a little selling and being here and there in between. I have traded some for other altcoins that did well and traded some back to bitcoin.Quote: billryanPast performance is meaningless. Bitcoin going from $1 to $60,000 is like rolling a dozen yos. You've made a lot of money on the roll but would you let it all ride on the next roll or take some profits?
In the topsy-turvy world of crypto speculation, there were more buyers at $60,000 than there are now at $35,500. Irrational.
I'm not actively looking to invest or seller right now. I'm just holding what I have and using it as a tool. If someone had some BTC they wanted to sell me in person, I would probably buy it, if someone wanted to buy some in person, I would probably sell them some.
I look at BTC as a form of currency(I hope goes up in value or even just stays within a range someday) even if it technically is or isn't.
Quote: AxelWolf
As I said, One can avoid the fluctuations by selling it, tethering it, or converting it into your cash account on an exchange.
I don't think so
if you buy in to an online casino with $1,000 worth of BTC and you play on it for 3 days and you won 20%
you go to cash out it's possible even though you won they will pay you an amount of BTC that is now only worth $900 U.S.
to be clear - I'm not anti BTC - I'm just realistic - I think BTC will have a place in our world - just not exactly sure in what way it will have value
people love to gamble - and that is their right - so it certainly has value as a gambling mechanism
*
Quote: lilredroosterI don't think so
if you buy in to an online casino with $1,000 worth of BTC and you play on it for 3 days and you won 20%
you go to cash out it's possible even though you won they will pay you an amount of BTC that is now only worth $900 U.S.
FYI, there are two types of online casino that take BTC. Those where you play in fractions of BTC and win or lose and cashout in BTC, or there are others that take BTC deposits and then give you a balance immediately translated into Fiat (eg. USD, CAD, GBP) you then play in fiat money which is only converted to BTC when you cashout. So, you only need to be exposed to BTC volatility for a while during buy-in or cashout.
