Mar 1 show with Eliot Jacobson
March 2nd, 2012 at 2:23:45 PM
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Our own Eliot Jacobson, who posts here sometimes, is the guest this week. I think this was one of our best shows as we discuss with Eliot his switch from advantage player to gaming consultant and the hot new advantage plays.
As always, you can get all the old shows at my Odds site.
As always, you can get all the old shows at my Odds site.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 2nd, 2012 at 5:09:06 PM
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I found parts of Jacobson's answers to be confusing. He
gave up AP because he now 'likes' the casinos? Thats the
reason? It wasn't because the money is steady and he
doesn't have to look over his shoulder all the time, its
because he likes the casino people now. It was an odd
answer.
He says casinos don't really worry about AP's, they have
better things to do. He said casinos don't care about AP's
at all. Then he tells a story about being back roomed and
severely treated and hinted that there's a lawsuit involved.
Which is it, Eliot, casinos don't care about AP's, or they do
care. Have you read Paigowdan's dozens of posts here
on the subject? He's on the front line every day and he
says they care very much about stopping AP's.
It sounds like Eliot's gone over to the DarkSide and is trying
to please both sides, which is impossible.
gave up AP because he now 'likes' the casinos? Thats the
reason? It wasn't because the money is steady and he
doesn't have to look over his shoulder all the time, its
because he likes the casino people now. It was an odd
answer.
He says casinos don't really worry about AP's, they have
better things to do. He said casinos don't care about AP's
at all. Then he tells a story about being back roomed and
severely treated and hinted that there's a lawsuit involved.
Which is it, Eliot, casinos don't care about AP's, or they do
care. Have you read Paigowdan's dozens of posts here
on the subject? He's on the front line every day and he
says they care very much about stopping AP's.
It sounds like Eliot's gone over to the DarkSide and is trying
to please both sides, which is impossible.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
March 3rd, 2012 at 4:05:32 PM
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I enjoyed his presentation at WGPC. I plan on doing a write up here about it once I get to a proper computer
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
March 3rd, 2012 at 5:57:11 PM
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Good points, Bob, but it was a good show anyway.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 3rd, 2012 at 6:00:14 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitGood points, Bob, but it was a good show anyway.
I never said it wasn't a good show.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
March 4th, 2012 at 8:52:23 AM
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Quote: EvenBobHe says casinos don't really worry about AP's, they have
better things to do.
Casinos don't worry about AP's only in the sense that they use games with positives house EV's and apply game protection methods to their operations(surveillance, procedures, etc.) If they had uncontrolable losses from a problem games or problem players, they would care very much, as would any business.
Quote: EvenBob...It sounds like Eliot's gone over to the DarkSide and is trying
to please both sides, which is impossible.
Maybe Eliot simply feels that gaming is a great and legitimate business, and as such, he works with, approves of, and supports his clients, - which is a reasonable position to take.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
March 4th, 2012 at 9:35:35 AM
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I though ap's were the merchants of evil, Even Bob, at least that's what Dan is always telling me.
March 4th, 2012 at 9:57:16 AM
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Quote: buzzpaffI though ap's were the merchants of evil, Even Bob, at least that's what Dan is always telling me.
No. They're just people in need of a real job. If you try to beat the system, you'll always find in the end that the system beats you, and some are slow learners.
This is the difference between playing in the ocean, versus playing with the ocean.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
March 4th, 2012 at 10:09:39 AM
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I kinda see what Bob is saying but look at it differently.
In both cases, Elliot is looking for weaknesses. Whether it in game design or dealer procedure or whatever.
As an AP, he looks for ways to exploit them.
As a casino consultant, he looks for ways to remove them.
Both cases are equally challenging. And I think that's key. Elliot is looking for new challenges.
In both cases, Elliot is looking for weaknesses. Whether it in game design or dealer procedure or whatever.
As an AP, he looks for ways to exploit them.
As a casino consultant, he looks for ways to remove them.
Both cases are equally challenging. And I think that's key. Elliot is looking for new challenges.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 4th, 2012 at 10:11:51 AM
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P.S. Great show as always.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 4th, 2012 at 10:19:23 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanIf you try to beat the system, you'll always find in the end that the system beats you,
This is so untrue. Dan, I barely know where to
start. Far more people get away with gaming
the system than get caught. Something like
95%+ of all burglaries go unsolved. Most
embezzlers never get caught. If a shoplifter
does get nabbed, its for just a tiny portion
of what he's stolen up to that point. The
truth is, crime does pay, and it pays very
well, thats why so many do it. You think
AP's are criminals, the same thing applies
to them. You only see the AP's you catch,
the good ones get away with it day in and
day out. A good cop knows he doesn't even
make a dent in the crime going on out there,
and after awhile most of them give up caring.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
March 4th, 2012 at 10:48:00 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanIf you try to beat the system, you'll always find in the end that the system beats you,
Are you implying that there are NO successful AP's? I think that's what the word 'always' implies? Dan?
March 4th, 2012 at 10:55:41 AM
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I wish the Wizard had his own show. I know Dancer was there first, but he seems like a one-topic guy.
"I don't have a gambling problem. I have a financial problem."
March 4th, 2012 at 11:59:40 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOAre you implying that there are NO successful AP's? I think that's what the word 'always' implies? Dan?
I didn't say there are zero successful AP's.
I'm saying being a gambler is a surprisingly obvious bad bet as a career choice. You can say that something is bad, or 'always' a bad idea as a rule, even if there are some success stories.
Gambling is a good source of action and recreation. But gambling generally a very bad source of reliable career income, as opposed to gaming operations.
Look at it this way: A career in bartending or owning a liquor store is a lot different than a career in drinking. And a liquor store owner or bartender may cater to both social drinkers and to some alcoholics.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
March 4th, 2012 at 12:13:44 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
I'm saying being a gambler is a surprisingly obvious bad bet as a career choice.
For the vast majority of people this is obviously
true. But for a small percentage gambling pays
very well. Thats who we're talking about.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
March 7th, 2012 at 6:41:47 PM
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Quote: EvenBobFor the vast majority of people this is obviously
true. But for a small percentage gambling pays
very well. Thats who we're talking about.
Oh, you mean the cheaters, I assume Bob
March 7th, 2012 at 7:45:55 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffOh, you mean the cheaters, I assume Bob
AP's are only cheating themselves if they don't
take the casino for all they can.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
March 22nd, 2012 at 12:36:40 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI kinda see what Bob is saying but look at it differently.
In both cases, Elliot is looking for weaknesses. Whether it in game design or dealer procedure or whatever.
As an AP, he looks for ways to exploit them.
As a casino consultant, he looks for ways to remove them.
Both cases are equally challenging. And I think that's key. Elliot is looking for new challenges.
Finally listened to this show (still catching up on my podcasts from my Vegas trip) and I enjoyed it very much. I tend to agree with DJ here on why Elliot "switched sides." For someone with his phenomenal level of intelligence, he probably got bored with AP and decided he could make more money on a more regular schedule finding the same weaknesses, and getting paid to remove then instead of exploiting them.
The next week's show with the taped BJ Traveler interview was great as well.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
