Feb 16 Show with Dollie Wong

Quote: EvenBob

Whats alarming is how incredibly cheap some people are. Yeah,
lets compare the US to EU, where they're rioting in the streets
because their hundreds of entitlements are in danger.

A gross over-generalisation from the other side of the Atlantic if you don't mind me saying so sir? Yep, there's been unrest in Greece fairly recently and for very understandable reasons - as a result of their serious economic problems (albeit self-inflicted) their National Minimum Wage (of around the equivalent of US$6.80 an hour) has just been cut by 25% (so 100,000s people will be facing a hefty pay cut), and a huge swathe of public sector employees will shortly find themselves unemployed with no prospect of finding alternative work in the foreseeable future. The equivalent would be, say, for 10% of America's hard working middle classes being made unemployed within the next six to nine months with nothing to look forward to other than to have their homes repossessed and an existence on welfare for their families into the future. I think it'd be a sound bet that there'd be riots on the streets of every US state as well?

But back to the original thread . . . I've read through this thread with a degree of interest - I'm from the UK, where this concept of mandatory tipping is something that's never been the case here. Tipping is something for the benefit of those who go over and beyond what would normally be expected of them in their job, or where they add to a consumer's experience of a service, ie bubbly friendly pro-active service in a restaurant as opposed to just delivering the food to the table and walking away.

Back in 1990 I visited the States for a ski-holiday and stayed at the Breckenrigdge Lodge in Breckenridge, and one morning I took breakfast there - which was a serve-yourself buffet spread. A waitress who was working the room poured me a cup of coffee -that was the extent to which she served me at my table. After I'd finished and left, she followed me out into the main lounge and demanded a tip? "A tip for what?". "I poured your coffee and it's usual to leave a tip". "Isn't that your job, and don't you get paid a wage for doing it?" "Yes, but . . . . ". I sent her away with a flea in her ear. The Lodge guests from the UK got reputations as being tight-arses, and we were told at our arrival meeting it had gotten to the point where the hotel bell-hops would refuse to carry the
bags of UK guests as they knew through experience it was unlikely they'd get a tip at the end of it. I found out later that the serving staff at the Lodge were paid just $1.95/hr.

In another restaurant in town, after a particularly incompetent young lady had taken our order twice, and both times had forgotten to pass it to the kitchen, I got chatting to the proprietor (an Australian guy) who told us that although he paid $8.00/hr he struggled to find reliable staff to work in his restaurant, and was currently several down so service wasn't as prompt as he would have liked it to be. I remember him saying "I pay well over the odds and still can't get anyone to work here!".

So this summed it up - a choice between working for $1.95/hr in the Lodge where the expectation of tips-$$s was very high, or for $8.00/hr somewhere else where the tips weren't going to be nearly as good. I suspect in Las Vegas similar situations exist? For those who elect to take up the offer of employment at $1.95, don't complain if some guests don't leave a tip, just get over it - that's a risk that goes with that decision.

Someone has said in an earlier posting that they consider it rude and unacceptable not to tip. I disagree. I think it's as rude and unacceptable to "expect" it, when you're being paid to do a/the job in the first place.

Goethe- you are correct, you never HAVE to tip. But here in the US, it is IMPLIED that certain jobs are dependent upon tips. Those jobs are defined by the employers right to pay them less than minimum wage. So in a restaurant here, 'average' service gets 15% from me, and 'exceptional' service 20%. If the service is unacceptable (very rare) I may not tip.
By the way, it is ILLEGAL for me to accept a tip, it is considered a violation of my agreement with either the patient's insurance company or Medicare/Medicaid.

Quote: SOOPOO

So in a restaurant here, 'average' service gets 15% from me, and 'exceptional' service 20%.

With tip inflation, I think the "average" is now 17% to 18%. That is the service fee that gets added for large parties in restaurants. Personally, I give 15% to 20%, depending on how good the service was.

Quote: Wizard

Personally, I give 15% to 20%, depending on how good the service was.

Unless a waiter really shocks me in one direction or the other, my tip varies in that same range, but the variation is generally to give an even amount. If I'm paying cash, the bill-plus-tip amount gets evened; if I'm using a credit card, the tip amount is in whole dollars. For very small bills, such as breakfast at Waffle House or something, the percentage is frequently greater than 20% because the tip amount is still so low. I'd feel like even more of a cheapskate than I really am if I tipped 15% on a $5 meal after someone came to the table to take the order and then served the food.

Quote: Wizard

With tip inflation, I think the "average" is now 17% to 18%. That is the service fee that gets added for large parties in restaurants. Personally, I give 15% to 20%, depending on how good the service was.

I seemed to remember reading somewhere, Can't remember exactly where, Oh now, I remember, it was here.
Something about a waitress having to answer a trivia question ? Or did I eat bad mushrooms and hallucinated that ??

Quote: SOOPOO

Goethe- you are correct, you never HAVE to tip. But here in the US, it is IMPLIED that certain jobs are dependent upon tips. Those jobs are defined by the employers right to pay them less than minimum wage. So in a restaurant here, 'average' service gets 15% from me, and 'exceptional' service 20%. If the service is unacceptable (very rare) I may not tip.
By the way, it is ILLEGAL for me to accept a tip, it is considered a violation of my agreement with either the patient's insurance company or Medicare/Medicaid.

I'm not aware of any provisions in place in the UK that allows employers to pay less than the NMW on the grounds that there's an "expectation" that an employee's wages will be "made up" with tips as in the States. This appears to me to be something that allows unscrupulous employers to pay less than they perhaps ought to for what are already low paid jobs? Couldn't see this getting past the House in the UK somehow. There were lots of debates around the prudence of introducing the NMW in th UK in 1999, but despite all of the very valid points put forward re competitiveness in a global economy (no NMW in China or India to the best of my knowledge) I think it is necessary to have a mimimum level of remuneration to avoid some of the shocking exploitation that I have personally witnessed in the past. A fair day's pay for a fair day's work and all that . . . .

So, back to the crux of the discussion - don't mind tipping for excellent (beyond the call) service (at 10%-ish), but do mind when I'm expected to as a consequence of the server in question choosing to allow themselves to be taken advantage of by their employer and work for less than a basic wage. I would say I'm far more sympathetic in situations where it's a smaller business employing someone in an area where jobs are scarce, but at one of the most expensive (at the time) hotels in one of Colorado's major resorts? - nah.

'When in Rome...' comes to mind in light of your position.

In the U.S., we do have Minimum wage laws. They create varied exceptions inclusive of food-service employees. Federal law establishes a cash-based minimum wage of $2.13. Additionally, there is a 'basic' minimum wage for food-service employees who receive tips of $7.25. This latter minimum is, unfortunately, not well enforced in my view.

My point is, our laws differ from yours, for various philosophical reasons. I won't try and justify those differences.

Now that you know of these differences, please honor our laws AND PRACTICES upon your next visit. The employees who serve you will appreciate it.

Quote: midwestgb

Now that you know of these differences, please honor our laws AND PRACTICES upon your next visit. The employees who serve you will appreciate it.

And if that's not reason enough, then think of yourself: It's a bad idea to make the people who handle your food angry.

they don't get angry until you are finished eating and you leave them the 10% tip,
so really, if you feel that 10% is what you are comfortable with and they have not exceeded expectations,
go with it. just get out of there fast because americans have a high sense of entitlement.

Quote: midwestgb

In the U.S., we do have Minimum wage laws. They create varied exceptions inclusive of food-service employees. Federal law establishes a cash-based minimum wage of $2.13.

Now that you know of these differences, please honor our laws AND PRACTICES upon your next visit. The employees who serve you will appreciate it.

$2.13 per hour as a minimum wage for an hour of someone's time (even doing the most menial task), in the most prosperous economy on the planet is, to my mind, a disgrace - and represents the bad side of capitalism. $7.25 for food service staff is around 20% lower than in the UK, but in the same ballpark. Does this mean that there is an expectation that, provided employers observe this level of $7.25, table service staff are expected to earn more than this when their tips are taken into account? What does the IRS assume they make in addition to this for tax purposes?

As to visiting the States, I was there last Summer and thoroughly enjoyed my visit. When travelling abroad I always observe the laws of the host country, and am happy to fall into line with PRACTICES that are observed by the locals and reasonable (although I've met many Americans who don't tip as a matter of routine either). Expecting a tip for pouring a cup of coffee is, to my mind, unreasonable? When we were there most of the serving staff we came into contact with received tips of 10%-20% for providing exemplary service (something commonly lacking in the UK). But some didn't, for a host of reasons, and I'm afraid I didn't feel the slightest bit guilty for not tipping them.

I think you're correct - there's a profound philosphical difference in attitudes to tipping on opposite sides of the Atlantic. This doesn't make either view fundimentally wrong.

You might look at it this way. If by choice or if compelled by law the restaurant owner were to pay a significantly higher wage to the waiter, he would certainly increase the prices to the customer. There would also be additional taxes to be paid by the employer because of paying the higher wage, which would lead to even higher prices to the customer. Since the current practice in the U.S. is saving you (the customer) this money in the pre-tip portion of the bill, you can just add it on as a tip. If you work it out just right, the waiter gets the same as if he were getting a higher wage, you still save perhaps a little bit, and the only ones that continue to be shorted are the government entities that are adding on the taxes.

Quote: Goethe

$2.13 per hour as a minimum wage for an hour of someone's time (even doing the most menial task), in the most prosperous economy on the planet is, to my mind, a disgrace - and represents the bad side of capitalism.

There are some people whose skills are limited and this is the most productive that they can be. Your attitude here is meant to be compassionate, I am sure. But as someone who has earned a couple bucks an hour to serve and relied on tips I find it incredibly insulting that my what I did for a living was, in your mind, "disgraceful". People tend to take the best job they can get, and wage is a major component in determining which job is better than which. The fact that restaurants have no trouble finding help at $3 an hour tells you that this is the best some people can do, and that's OK. These are short term jobs for most people and gives them the experience they need to move on to better opportunities later in life.


On a seperate note, it is not acceptable to eat a meal in the US and not expect to tip. If service is terrible then you dont have to tip but otherwise you basically have to. The fact that it is an unwritten rule is irrelevant. A standard tip for me is 15% of the pretax total. My friends who serve tell me that this is cheap and I should tip 20% of the total bill including sales tax. Not suprisingly, they interpret the custom in a way that gives them a 40% raise versus my interpretation. The price of the service is vague but if you are not willing to pay it you should, at least, inform your waiter before you order that you will not be tipping him for his service.

Another thing you might not be familiar with is the fact that wait staff does not get to keep the whole amount of the tip anyway. I have friends who work at bottom dollar chains like Chilis and Fridays, and they have to give the bartender and bussers about 3% of their total sales every night, plus the IRS assumes that they recive 10% of their sales as tips. So if you do not tip on, say, a $100 check, my friend has to pay out of his own pocket $3 to the bartender, and then pay taxes as though he got a $10 tip, so it could easily cost my friend $5 for the pleasure of serving you.

Quote: bigfoot66

. . . . I find it incredibly insulting that my what I did for a living was, in your mind, "disgraceful". People tend to take the best job they can get, and wage is a major component in determining which job is better than which.

I didn't say that . . . that your choice to take on a low paid job was disgraceful. I said for the most prosperous nation on the planet to only expect employers to remunerate people for their labour at $2.13 (ie set the National Minimum Wage) is disgraceful. No insult was intended, and I applaud your attitude and dedication in being prepared to work for this hourly rate.

Quote: bigfoot66

The fact that restaurants have no trouble finding help at $3 an hour tells you that this is the best some people can do, and that's OK.

We'll just have to agree to differ, but I don't think it is OK to pay someone $3.00 an hour. I've heard all of the arguements in the past for keeping wages at low levels - lower business running costs, lower prices for the consumer, creating employment opportunities in a more dynamic economy yada yada yada. Although all of these things can be the result of low wage levels, they are not necessarily universally beneficial. What also tends to result though is exploitation of people in modest circumstances who, perhaps for reasons beyond their control, find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place, with limited prospects of escaping their predicament (possibly because they're having to work so many hours just to earn enough to live on).

Quote: bigfoot66

So if you do not tip on, say, a $100 check, my friend has to pay out of his own pocket $3 to the bartender, and then pay taxes as though he got a $10 tip, so it could easily cost my friend $5 for the pleasure of serving you.

Point taken, and I think it's deplorable that this is the case - that low paid staff end up being taxed on tips they may never receive.

As someone who serves/has served tables, which would you prefer/have preferred if the choice had been there - say a regular wage of $7.25/hr or $3.00/hr plus tips ?

Sorry if you've found my views prickly, but I think that the "low wages plus tips is OK" arguement tends to fly in the face of the efforts made by those in the past who have fought for better conditions and pay for those at the bottom end of the employment ladder.

Quote: bigfoot66

The price of the service is vague but if you are not willing to pay it you should, at least, inform your waiter before you order that you will not be tipping him for his service.

I think I agreed with the rest of your mid sized post, but this is perhaps the most ridiculous sentence I have read on this forum. What better way to insure poor service, and having your food spat on?

Quote: WongBo

because Americans have a high sense of entitlement.

So do Mexican valet parkers.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think I agreed with the rest of your mid sized post, but this is perhaps the most ridiculous sentence I have read on this forum. What better way to insure poor service, and having your food spat on?

The waiter treats you well because he expects you to pay him for it. If you do not leave a tip, it is sort of like stealing. Not exactly stealing, but sort of. I am also trying to point out that there is perhaps (but not always) something wrong with one's behavior if he is unwilling to discuss it with the affected parties. You are 100% right, though.

deleted

Quote: Goethe

I don't think it is OK to pay someone $3.00 an hour. I've heard all of the arguements in the past for keeping wages at low levels - lower business running costs, lower prices for the consumer, creating employment opportunities in a more dynamic economy yada yada yada. Although all of these things can be the result of low wage levels, they are not necessarily universally beneficial. What also tends to result though is exploitation of people in modest circumstances who, perhaps for reasons beyond their control, find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place, with limited prospects of escaping their predicament (possibly because they're having to work so many hours just to earn enough to live on).

My original argument was a bit emotional. To be honest, I find lines like this to be incredibly condescending. For many people the options are not A) $3.00 an hour, or, B) whatever value the wise overlords in DC dictate per hour. In a competitve market, one's wage tends towards the amount of value he can add to a firm, so if the most I can add to a firm is $5 an hour, they have to pay me somenumber less than that or they will not make any money. Dictating that I must be paid $6 an hour for any job I do is dictating that I will be unemployed. Imagine how the world would look if there was a $100,000 a year minimum salary. Would people be wealthier or poorer?

Quote: Goethe

Point taken, and I think it's deplorable that this is the case - that low paid staff end up being taxed on tips they may never receive.

As someone who serves/has served tables, which would you prefer/have preferred if the choice had been there - say a regular wage of $7.25/hr or $3.00/hr plus tips ?.

I think you are missing just how much people make from tips. Even if one works at a chilis or similar low end chain where a dinner entree costs $12 or so, it is not uncommon for the waiters to go home with $100 in their pockets after a 6 hour dinner shift, plus they get a check every couple of weeks. The stereotype here in Southern California is that everyone who wants to be an actor is waiting tables.

Quote: Goethe

Sorry if you've found my views prickly, but I think that the "low wages plus tips is OK" arguement tends to fly in the face of the efforts made by those in the past who have fought for better conditions and pay for those at the bottom end of the employment ladder.

My point is that it is really not any of your business. It irks me that you want to use force to stop me from entering into a business relationship. Your proposal is that, because you find it so distateful that I might work for $3.00 an hour, that cops should bust into my restaurant and haul my employer off to jail. Or maybe just steal money from him in the form of a fine.

America, as a general proposition, is built on the notion of Hustle. As in, if you hustle in doing your work, you will be rewarded. The best advice I ever got when entering my profession was this: Project Effort. And the same holds true in the Food service business. And casinos.

Quote: bigfoot66

. . . My point is that it is really not any of your business . . .

Hmmm. . . you're quite right - if you're content to work for $3.00 an hour that's your business and it's certainly not for me to say you shouldn't if you wish to. But, reading back, you're the one who handed out the admonishment for people not tipping someone who's already being paid a wage to do something in the first place. On a similar note to your own, choosing not to tip as a matter of course, because someone has chosen to take up a poorly paid position, is a personal choice as well and not anyone else's business either (although I understand the reasons why table staff expect to receive a tip of 10%-20% of the final bill).

Quote: bigfoot66

. . . because you find it so distateful that I might work for $3.00 an hour, that cops should bust into my restaurant and haul my employer off to jail. Or maybe just steal money from him in the form of a fine.

As to your point above, sorry but I wouldn't have a problem with that at all - any employer in a modern western economy (with the costs of living as they are) who thinks $3.00 is a fair remuneration for an hour's hard work in my view deserves all they get. If they can't afford to pay a fair and decent wage (I don't believe $3.00/hr in the USA is, although you seem quite content with it) perhaps they shouldn't hire? Such pay rates simply exacerbate cycles of exploitation and poverty, and I've seen examples of this first hand in the UK; before 1999, groups of ladies sitting behind sewing machines all day being paid £1/hr, despite the fact that the employer turned a reasonable profit each year. They paid £1/hr because they could get away with doing so at the time - third world conditions in (what was then) the fourth wealthiest economy in the world. It's the unacceptable face of capitalism I'm afraid. Arguing that it's OK to pay wages at such levels doesn't help in improving the lot of people at the bottom end of the employment ladder, and is usually a point of view eminating from employers and not employees? The arguements around tips can make it up to a reasonable wage just muddy the waters, and avoid the issues that result from condoning low pay.

I think we've drifted off the main crux of the discussion somewhat. Let's agree to differ and leave it shall we? A pleasure discussing the issue with you. By the way, who's Ron Paul ?

Quote: Goethe

I'm not aware of any provisions in place in the UK that allows employers to pay less than the NMW on the grounds that there's an "expectation" that an employee's wages will be "made up" with tips as in the States.

In the UK, Contractors and self-employed people are allowed to pay themselves whatever they so wish. If you "contract" in cleaners and waiters, you can pay them what you choose to. I know "self-employed" waiters who paid restaurants 25p per diner that they served, and kept all the tips in hand. As they were working at quite fancy restaurants, they could easily make 100-200 pounds per shift.

Similarly, there are contract cleaners making less than minimum wage in the UK by being paid per "job" rather than per hour.

You're right. I know all about the joys of self-employment as I use to be an enterprise adviser working in the Smokemost of which was undertaken on a self-employed basis. It's an ever increasingly popular way of getting around the NMW, although when it comes to contracting out services to firms that insist on their staff working only on a self-employed footing on a "per job" basis (for what is really the equivalent of less than the NMW) it ususally manifests itself in grief later on.

When it comes to waiters claiming to be self-employed, I know the HMRC have a definite view as to the validity of this and restaurants use this get out at their peril. There's no actual definition of self-employment in the UK, only conditions that self-employed and independent people will fulfil, ie more than a single "customer", make use of their own tooling, can please themselves when they complete a job they're contracted to do, can hire others etc. Waiters and similar don't fall into it.

:-)

Since Cocktail Doll was mentioned in a current thread, I thought this would be a good time to revive this gem. Browse the thread and click the links to see what how this woman really fells about her customers.

I know this is an ancient thread, but I just found it and see that I was misquoted:

Quote: teddys

By the way, I do admit to tipping $0.50. I got that from Michael Bluejay's Easy Vegas site. The Wizard has voiced his disagreement with that policy, but I stick by it.

Quote: Wizard

That is Michael Bluejay's argument for tipping 50¢ per drink. He figures that at 50¢ a drink they are earning a respectable living for fairly menial labor.

I have *never* suggested handing a cocktail waitress 50¢ for a drink. What I *actually* said in my Tipping Guide is that a reasonable amount was "$1 every other drink". That *averages* to 50¢, but handing over a physical dollar every other drink is a far cry from handing over two quarters every drink. I think waitresses would have a worse feeling from getting two quarters than nothing at all.

Incidentally, my old "$1 every other drink" dates back to circa 2005. Because of inflation, my newer short advice is "$1 every 1-2 drinks". For more detail, I have a table listing how much waitresses make per year at various tip rates. (Yes, some people tip less, but then again, some people tip more.) $1 every other drink is $38,500 per year, which was decent in 2005 but not so much today. $1 per drink is $62,500, which I still consider to be a handsome salary for a job that requires no post-high school education. So now I never tip less than $2 every 3 drinks ($46,660/yr.) A generous $2 per drink would put a waitress in about the 90th percentile for individual income in the U.S., more than the typical Ph.D. See my tipping guide for the full table.

Finally, the word "menial" is the Wizard's word, not mine. I respect cocktail waitresses and their work. I just don't think I should be obligated to ensure they make as much as aircraft mechanics, conservation scientists, archeologists, police officers, historians, cartographers, etc.

I stand corrected and apologize for the misquotation.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Finally, the word "menial" is the Wizard's word, not mine. I respect cocktail waitresses and their work. I just don't think I should be obligated to ensure they make as much as aircraft mechanics, conservation scientists, archeologists, police officers, historians, cartographers, etc.

Personally I think one should tip because of hard work or work well done.

I dont think one's educational achievements should be a factor.

If a cocktail waitress has found a position that pays as well as a scientist or a cartographer trying to reduce her wages as some form of brainiac justice doesn't sit right.

P.S. I hope you dont suggest tipping $1 every other dance to strippers for the same reason.

I don't know if it was worth picking this nit.

Is Cocktail Dollie still around? Still at NYNY HighLimit room?

Quote: FleaStiff

I don't know if it was worth picking this nit.

Is Cocktail Dollie still around? Still at NYNY HighLimit room?

I don't know if I'm at liberty to say. I will say she has a Facebook page that she posts in frequently that answers the question.

Quote: EvenBob

This is her? You had this hot babe on your show?
You call this 'work'?

I wasn't posting on this site when this particular episode of GWAE came out.

On the night she appeared on our show, she brought a date with her. I'm guessing they were a "new" item because they couldn't keep their hands off of each other. They actively fondled each other the entire show. Her answers came across sexier than average, I suppose, because with the fondling her hormones were quite activated!

It didn't bother me much as she wasn't the sort I would ever pursue even if I were single (which I wasn't at the time, nor am I now). And yes. It was work to keep her focused enough on the interview because for some reason her mind kept wandering as she was fondling/fondled.

At that time, the show aired live and we had an hour to fill. Today, Munchkin and I do it via podcast and we can cut and paste where appropriate. We almost always tape it prior to airing and so if a guest doesn't turn out to be appropriate for any reason, we could switch to a "Bob and Richard answer their mail" show.

Quote: Wizard

I stand corrected and apologize for the misquotation.

As long as Shack is apologizing, my comment on the show was that i order two drinks at a time (usually black coffee and a bottle of water --- pretty simple for a waitress to accommodate) and tip $1 for the pair of drinks.

I have never tipped 50 cents for anything.

I remember years ago at the Golden Nugget in downtown Vegas when the machines took coins instead of TITO tickets, they installed an area of machines they called "Nickel Heaven," because they were all denominated in nickels. The waitresses called it "Nickel Hell" because they were often tipped two or three nickels for a drink.

Quote: BobDancer

I remember years ago at the Golden Nugget in downtown Vegas when the machines took coins instead of TITO tickets, they installed an area of machines they called "Nickel Heaven," because they were all denominated in nickels. The waitresses called it "Nickel Hell" because they were often tipped two or three nickels for a drink.

I love a woman with a good sense of humor!

This is why they should just move to self serve drink stations. Paying a $1 for a few sips of cranberry juice or whatever is kind of a rip. I know you're paying for the cocktail waitress to deliver it. But still, it is a rip.
In Vegas though you would probably have a gaggle of homeless that you'd have to run off. Then you'd have the people coming in with refillable bottles, thermoses, and what not to go.

Quote: MaxPen

This is why they should just move to self serve drink stations.

The only place I've seen that in Vegas is the M, and they got rid of them years ago. I heard the McDonalds at the D used to have a self-service fountain, but homeless people would help themselves as they filled up a coin cup with soda.

Quote: MaxPen

This is why they should just move to self serve drink stations.

The casinos do not want the patrons getting up and away from their machines. They know if a patron gets up, there is a very good chance they might not sit back down and continue to gamble.

Quote: DRich

The casinos do not want the patrons getting up and away from their machines. They know if a patron gets up, there is a very good chance they might not sit back down and continue to gamble.

Yes but many casinos outside of Vegas have them.

I heard that the waitress union people fought against in the past. Wondering if it is in the union contract that they can not have them

Quote: GWAE

Yes but many casinos outside of Vegas have them.

Hard Rock Biloxi has a soft drink section gratis on casino floor.
IP has a free coffee machine.

Quote: GWAE

Yes but many casinos outside of Vegas have them.

Yes, I understand that, I have been to hundreds of casinos across the U.S.

In my opinion it is foolish to have them. I would never allow it in my casino's.

Quote: GWAE

Yes but many casinos outside of Vegas have them.

One good thing I'll say about Indian casinos is they seem the most likely to have self-service coffee/soda stations.

Quote: Wizard

One good thing I'll say about Indian casinos is they seem the most likely to have self-service coffee/soda stations.

Yep, the Emerald Queen Casino in WA state has self-serve soda and coffee. I'm sure security has to chase away the homeless people frequently.

Actually now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if those got removed in the 5+ years since I've been there. The homeless situation in WA has gotten so bad they may have just been overrun.

Problems with self serve machines often come from the half empty stuff dumped into them, not just homeless or bargain hunting greedy people.

An AP wrote a book on his summer in a casino with a free bottled water station. He basically stocked his house with so many bottles, that they banned him from taking water. Of course, right after being banned he runs into an emergency situation and he has to risk losing his piggy bank to grab water for some dehydrated puppies.

Quote: billryan

An AP wrote a book on his summer in a casino with a free bottled water station. He basically stocked his house with so many bottles, that they banned him from taking water. Of course, right after being banned he runs into an emergency situation and he has to risk losing his piggy bank to grab water for some dehydrated puppies.

1536 free waters I believe it was called.

He was grabbing them 3 n 4 at a time. They threatened to ban him if he kept trying to outwit their water rations.

A fun book. The author used to post on Ken Smiths forum quite a bit.

He must not have been much of a player to get banned over too many bottles of free water.

In my high rolling days the first time I got to RFB status in one of the resorts I used to stay a lot at, they had one of those fully stocked minibars in the suite. I called downstairs to VIP and asked if the RFB included what was in the minibar, and she said, "Within reason." I thought about it for a bit, got a couple of the plastic bags the maids leave in the closet, and emptied the entire contents of the minibar both inside the refrigerator and everything on the counter, into the bags and hid it all away in one of the closets.

The next day when the bar was restocked, I did it again. I repeated this every day of my stay, and I was there over a week. Sometimes I would have to call housekeeping to have them restock because it would sit empty for a whole day. I never saw a bill for anything.

It got to where I would stuff a Huge duffle bag into my luggage every time I flew in, and go home with everything I could fit into the bag wrapped in hotel towels. This was before the airlines were so strict about baggage weight although one time the skycap asked me if I had any alcohol in the heavy bag, and I lied and said No 😃while actually that particular trip the thing was filled not just with minibar bottles but a few bottles of wine and premium tequila my host had given me too.

It got to where I stopped doing it, not because anyone ever said anything but because I got sick of almost all of whatever they had to offer. Eventually I would take only the beef jerky, nuts, sometimes the Pringles and occasionally suntan lotion. I have tons of expired suntan lotion from those days. 😇

I don't even drink (not even a little bit), and to this day one of the bars in my house is lined up with dozens of those miniatures from casino minibars, even after giving most of that free alcohol away.


I don't play to that level any longer but even if I did I doubt the casinos today would be as accommodating. These days I have had almost all the food comp'ed off a stay and still seen an $8. bag of chips from the minibar remain on the final folio. And you can't really even call over something like that, or the host will think you're being a cheapskate trying to nibble him to death like ducks.

This is from one of the other bars in my house, just some of the bottles I keep on display

most of the bottles came free from casinos. These are all received maybe ten years ago, maybe more. At the time I asked for very old, very rare Dom Perignon and they gave me a 1980 bottle once, a 1982 another time. Not sure if those are good years? but they seemed old anyway. 😄I have lots of other vintage Dom bottles too but I keep those on their side in the cellar. These two stood upright for so long that it's probably too late now so I just keep them upright.

The MacAllan is 1973 and 1980, I know enough about scotch to know they were giving me good stuff as far as whisky is concerned.

The Johnny Walker Blue, the way to get that free is to order it from room service at a casino where the tip is not added automatically, otherwise you end up paying a hundred and fifty bucks for a "free" bottle, since tips are almost never comp'ed off. The Venetian was one of the best places to get that, you just ordered it up to the suite, gave the attendant a twenty dollar bill, he's happy, and you've got another free bottle of Blue to wrap in a towel and ferret home. I have several bottles of Blue left that I haven't given away.

And then this is some kind of designer Erte bottle of cognac they gave for my being one of the top top players at one casino. Erte was already long dead by the time they gave me the bottle.


Also I had a longstanding understanding with one of the top restaurants in one of the casinos that whenever they emptied another bottle of Louis that they'd call me and give me the empty. I held on to most of these although one was shattered by accident.

I was a big player, but if I had been REALLY big they woulda given me all the UNopened FULL bottles of Louis XIII that came in. I was not quite at that level!


All this is why my friends ask why I bother to go to Vegas / Tahoe any longer. They say, after doing it at that level, isn't it all downhill now? Not really - now I get a chance to look at more than just the felt, and the play I give them, average a few hunny a hand, is low pressure and more about fun than Having to win.

Man those JW blue bottles must really be weighing down your psyche! I'll happily take one of those off your hands...just DM me for my address...

I hear ya'! But my cousin was the beneficiary of most of those bottles I got bored with it after a while. Looking back, I shoulda taken the casinos for even more Blue!