billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 8:30:31 AM permalink
MDawg has some unusual beliefs. Evidently, decades of playing at the very highest levels has allowed him to observe things the rest of us can only fantasize about. I can see how someone who wagers millions in an afternoon can fail to see much potential in your manoeuvres.
While I can appreciate your efforts and recognize its potential, I also can see how someone who wagers six figures on a single hand might think it inconsequential.
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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July 1st, 2019 at 8:34:33 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Come on man, you are using your brain. I see you are smart. Think of EVERY counter contingency and you will see how powerless the casinos really are.


I'm not against it, nor am I saying that it is not worth doing, just saying that it is an uphill battle.

I just made the decision long ago as far as casinos to just walk in the front door rather than the back (or side). As a result I did get banned (from BJ) for a period of time, but not for good.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 8:47:59 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I'm not against it, nor am I saying that it is not worth doing, just saying that it is an uphill battle.

I just made the decision long ago as far as casinos to just walk in the front door rather than the back (or side). As a result I did get banned for a period of time, but not for good.



I suppose we can concur on that. It is an uphill battle although I have become so pro at it its just part of the deal. Doesnt faze me too much.

Part of my training in film production was the loss of potentially tens of thousands (as a technician I was held liable for certain errors) due to human or mechanical error. I have lost so much money in the film business (even major studios have flops and financial disasters)

So I am pretty immune to losses and know how to weather them.

There are plenty of difficult jobs. Firefighters risk their lives every day. Police too! No one tries to talk them out of their difficult professions.

While APing isnt noble like fighting fires or crime my point is I enjoy what I do, its profitable and any battles that need to be waged with casinos are part of the package.

Sometimes I even relish outsmarting a casino thats wised up. Life is boring otherwise

But in general I prefer the smooth operation to an ongoing casino war.:)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
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July 1st, 2019 at 8:55:29 AM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

That would probably be true, if that were the case, but I do not use anyone's but my own card. That doesn't mean I don't understand the scam, and it doesn't mean I don't know people who do it. I don't know why it makes me uncomfortable, it's just a crummy topic to discuss. That doesn't mean all my posts are gems, far from it. lol

I feel you're headed down the wrong path, Dark. It's not too late to straighten out before you get yourself in a heap o' trouble. I don't want to see you get in trouble. I'm sure nobody here wants that.

Fwiw, I don't approve of the "method". It's weak, unimaginative, and it's cheating. I do not see casinos in an adversarial role.

The teams and individuals doing this are starting to annoy me. Have I ever cashed out someone elseís freeplay? Yea. Have I given my card to someone else to cash out? Yea. But I donít go around with 8 cards cashing out civilians freeplay that I convinced to sign up and give me the card. I donít have the friends and family who are interested in doing that. It puts me at a disadvantage to these card runners and teams that have endless people signing up for cards who have no intention of giving the casino legitimate play. They can take progressives at much lower numbers than I can.

I mean is it an AP move? Yea, sure. I agree itís unimaginative. Iím not sure it defines you as a great AP to pay a homeless guy $300 to go get a card and give it to you and then you do a play and cash out the freeplay. I donít think itís cheating but if casinos catch you on someone elseís card. I would imagine they have the right to cancel any offers and restrict the card. There is a pretty easy way to limit this. I donít know why casinos donít do it more but Iím glad they donít.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 9:04:55 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

The teams and individuals doing this are starting to annoy me. Have I ever cashed out someone elseís freeplay? Yea. Have I given my card to someone else to cash out? Yea. But I donít go around with 8 cards cashing out civilians freeplay that I convinced to sign up and give me the card. I donít have the friends and family who are interested in doing that. It puts me at a disadvantage to these card runners and teams that have endless people signing up for cards who have no intention of giving the casino legitimate play. They can take progressives at much lower numbers than I can.

I mean is it an AP move? Yea, sure. I agree itís unimaginative. Iím not sure it defines you as a great AP to pay a homeless guy $300 to go get a card and give it to you and then you do a play and cash out the freeplay. I donít think itís cheating but if casinos catch you on someone elseís card. I would imagine they have the right to cancel any offers and restrict the card. There is a pretty easy way to limit this. I donít know why casinos donít do it more but Iím glad they donít.



If it makes you feel better what I do has nothing to do with progressives. Sometimes I play them if they are must hits but I am at pretty much the same disadvantage (or if the machine is high enough) advantage as you.

I dont think its fully grasped what I do. Just peripherally(I have read quite a few somewhat incorrect theories on this forum) Since so few on here can actually grasp the full maneuver I would say its highly imaginative.

I certainly dont pay homeless people or strangers lol. Why would I trust them? They could just as easily change the pin and take everything for themselves or report me if they changed their minds.

Everyone I use is a friend, relative or recommendation by such. Also, if I get caught these people need to testify they actually did give me their card to use if any criminal charges are attempted.

So its not as random person as you think
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 10:07:11 AM permalink
If someone testified they gave you the cards, aren't they opening both of you to possible conspiracy to defraud charges. It's easier to get you on conspiracy charges then any possible crime. They don't have to prove you defrauded anyone, just that you engaged in an attempt to.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 10:45:10 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

If someone testified they gave you the cards, aren't they opening both of you to possible conspiracy to defraud charges. It's easier to get you on conspiracy charges then any possible crime. They don't have to prove you defrauded anyone, just that you engaged in an attempt to.



What fraud?

If ceasars says you can have a free toaster and you give your free toaster to someone else how is that fraud?

If you picked it up or had that person go down with your card its not fraud for you to accept what is freely offered and give it away.

Conspiracy must have a crime behind it. There is no crime here. If there is a sale on milk at the grocery and my friends all conspire to go on the sale day there is no crime of conspiracy to buy milk on sale.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 1st, 2019 at 11:06:30 AM permalink
DO. Serious question: IIRC you mentioned using attorneys(?) How much has that cost you thus far?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 1st, 2019 at 11:27:49 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

DO. Serious question: IIRC you mentioned using attorneys(?) How much has that cost you thus far?



For the criminal case I won it cost me $2,000. Was going to cost more but charges were dropped before trial

Civil case about $3000. Case is on contingency. Costs are for out of pocket court filings depositions etc

Truthfully I spent more on attorneys for a patent for a new casino game which had the same problems with the patent office as other inventors.

None of these costs were catastrophic to me.

To put it another way, I have won more than I ever spent on attorneys in my total lifetime in just a single day at the casino.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 1st, 2019 at 11:40:57 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



To put it another way, I have won more than I ever spent on attorneys in my total lifetime in just a single day at the casino.

That didn't need to be said. I was just curious if you have yet to run into a situation where it has cost 10's of thousands. And yes I know that still wouldn't be a big issue. But it certainly would suck. And if one of your people get jammed up and they do or say something that out of line and it goes further, I take it you will pay all their legal fees?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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