Rated play and hurting ratings
March 15th, 2019 at 8:08:00 AM
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If I can get some feedback on this, I would highly appreciate it. This is something that has been intriguing me for a long time and I could never get a definite answer. Maybe somebody on this forum who works for the casino can answer this. My gambling tendencies are all over the map on a given trip. I have sessions I am playing high limits (200-300 a hand), and at times I play red chips at blackjack, craps, and carnival games when I want to play with friends and family who are not big gamblers. Occasionally, when I do mess around and play red chips, the pit supervisors have advised me not to play rated because it may hurt my rating. If casinos truly rate you on ADT alone, why do they keep saying this? Is this an old wives tale?
(The calculation is a simple estimate)
Scenario 1: Player only gets rated on his high-limit blackjack play and plays red chip on carnival/craps/bj game unrated
(Blackjack) Average bet $250 X 4 hours per day X 2 days X 1% HE X 70 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $420
Looks like $250 X 4 hours a day on paper
Scenario 2: Player gets all his high-limit blackjack and red chip carnival/craps/ game rated.
(Blackjack) Average bet $250 X 4 hours per day X 2 days X 1% HE X 70 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $420
PLUS
(Carnival game) Average bet $10 X 2 hour per day X 2 days X 2% HE X 60 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $14.4
Looks like $170 avg hand X 6 hours a day on paper
I know the expected comp is only a difference of $14.4 on this scenario and negligible, but is there some truth to this? Do casinos REALLY would rather see a higher average a hand of $250 and see lower hours of play or see $170 average bet and 6 hours a day play. If I were a casino, I'd rather see $170 average bet for 6 hours rather than $250 average bet for 4 hours because of more ADT. Thoughts?
(The calculation is a simple estimate)
Scenario 1: Player only gets rated on his high-limit blackjack play and plays red chip on carnival/craps/bj game unrated
(Blackjack) Average bet $250 X 4 hours per day X 2 days X 1% HE X 70 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $420
Looks like $250 X 4 hours a day on paper
Scenario 2: Player gets all his high-limit blackjack and red chip carnival/craps/ game rated.
(Blackjack) Average bet $250 X 4 hours per day X 2 days X 1% HE X 70 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $420
PLUS
(Carnival game) Average bet $10 X 2 hour per day X 2 days X 2% HE X 60 hands an hour X 30% comp rate = $14.4
Looks like $170 avg hand X 6 hours a day on paper
I know the expected comp is only a difference of $14.4 on this scenario and negligible, but is there some truth to this? Do casinos REALLY would rather see a higher average a hand of $250 and see lower hours of play or see $170 average bet and 6 hours a day play. If I were a casino, I'd rather see $170 average bet for 6 hours rather than $250 average bet for 4 hours because of more ADT. Thoughts?
March 15th, 2019 at 8:20:58 AM
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I refuse to answer this
I get yelled at enough by members here
I get yelled at enough by members here
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
March 15th, 2019 at 8:35:08 AM
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Rereading your post and if I understand it correctly there is also the possibility casino personnel dont know what they are talking about
Which would surprise me less
Which would surprise me less
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
March 15th, 2019 at 10:32:20 AM
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Quote: darkozI refuse to answer this
I get yelled at enough by members here
Great insight. Thanks.
#LookAtMe
March 15th, 2019 at 10:44:28 AM
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My players card gets about 50-100 points an hour for $5 play at craps (50 cents - $1 at the food court). If I came in on another session and buy-in with a much higher bet, I'm sure I would get more points per hour.
March 15th, 2019 at 4:37:21 PM
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I'll give it a shot.
You play on Monday. 4 Hours @ 100 average. Let's just say for the sake of argument your theo for that day is 100.
You play on Tuesday screwing around with your friends. Your theo is 10.
Your ADT for the 2 days is now is 55. The extra play hurt you.
The other thing that matters is average bet. If both of those plays are in the same day, the theo will be 110, but the average bet will be lower.
The extra few points you get from the red chip betting will hurt you in the long run. My advise would also be to play uncarded for the small play.
Some properties also look at ADW (Average daily win) in addition to ADT.
Having said that, if your main game is BJ, and you are a winning player, the extra play at novelty games could possibly provide you with some cover, and may lengthen your viability at that property. Same for donk slot play.
YMMV
You play on Monday. 4 Hours @ 100 average. Let's just say for the sake of argument your theo for that day is 100.
You play on Tuesday screwing around with your friends. Your theo is 10.
Your ADT for the 2 days is now is 55. The extra play hurt you.
The other thing that matters is average bet. If both of those plays are in the same day, the theo will be 110, but the average bet will be lower.
The extra few points you get from the red chip betting will hurt you in the long run. My advise would also be to play uncarded for the small play.
Some properties also look at ADW (Average daily win) in addition to ADT.
Having said that, if your main game is BJ, and you are a winning player, the extra play at novelty games could possibly provide you with some cover, and may lengthen your viability at that property. Same for donk slot play.
YMMV
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
March 15th, 2019 at 10:46:38 PM
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How does decreasing your average bet hurt your ADT going forward within the same gaming day?
Or does it work retroactively over a whole session if the floor adjusts your average bet downward while a session is underway?
Or does it work retroactively over a whole session if the floor adjusts your average bet downward while a session is underway?
March 16th, 2019 at 5:01:57 PM
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Quote: smurgerburgerHow does decreasing your average bet hurt your ADT going forward within the same gaming day?
Or does it work retroactively over a whole session if the floor adjusts your average bet downward while a session is underway?
Decreasing your average bet significantly on the same day may not affect your ADT or ADW, but that is not the only thing that is looked at. Doing it on a separate day definitely affects those metrics.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
March 16th, 2019 at 10:21:48 PM
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Quote: FCBLComishDecreasing your average bet significantly on the same day may not affect your ADT or ADW, but that is not the only thing that is looked at. Doing it on a separate day definitely affects those metrics.
I think I understand your point a bit, but for a given Vegas weekend goer, if you typically get two nights Fri, Sat comp’d or discounted, don’t they expect you to play the second day? And if you don’t, don’t they just average the ADT for the two days regardless of you gaming for only one day?
