Surefire BJ w/o counting!
August 25th, 2018 at 7:47:36 PM
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I just wanted to mention this because I think that it's funny. I took a trip today to the Lodge. It's a dinky casino up in Blackhawk, CO.
Playing Double Deck, it shocked me to see that the dealer couldn't add! In less than an hour she made 4 math mistakes, paying me when she had me beat!
The girl was obviously new. You could tell because when she was shuffling the deck she was sloppy at it.
At the same time that she went off duty my wife cane and wanted to have lunch. Afterwards, I looked high and low to find her and play at whatever she was dealing, but she was gone. Part of me wonders if she got fired while I was eating :-).
The bets at Black Hawk are capped at $100 by state law. It's too bad that I couldn't find her in the Wynn high roller pit but oh well.
Playing Double Deck, it shocked me to see that the dealer couldn't add! In less than an hour she made 4 math mistakes, paying me when she had me beat!
The girl was obviously new. You could tell because when she was shuffling the deck she was sloppy at it.
At the same time that she went off duty my wife cane and wanted to have lunch. Afterwards, I looked high and low to find her and play at whatever she was dealing, but she was gone. Part of me wonders if she got fired while I was eating :-).
The bets at Black Hawk are capped at $100 by state law. It's too bad that I couldn't find her in the Wynn high roller pit but oh well.
The best things in life are not free.
August 25th, 2018 at 9:53:47 PM
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Quote: LovecompsI just wanted to mention this because I think that it's funny. I took a trip today to the Lodge. It's a dinky casino up in Blackhawk, CO.
Playing Double Deck, it shocked me to see that the dealer couldn't add! In less than an hour she made 4 math mistakes, paying me when she had me beat!
The girl was obviously new. You could tell because when she was shuffling the deck she was sloppy at it.
At the same time that she went off duty my wife cane and wanted to have lunch. Afterwards, I looked high and low to find her and play at whatever she was dealing, but she was gone. Part of me wonders if she got fired while I was eating :-).
The bets at Black Hawk are capped at $100 by state law. It's too bad that I couldn't find her in the Wynn high roller pit but oh well.
Interesting, because I would have corrected her on each mistake to me. I guess everyone has different morals.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 26th, 2018 at 8:01:55 AM
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When it comes to paying at the casinos, we(some of us) have the same morals the casinos do.Quote: Zcore13Interesting, because I would have corrected her on each mistake to me. I guess everyone has different morals.
ZCore13
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 26th, 2018 at 11:23:08 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfWhen it comes to paying at the casinos, we(some of us) have the same morals the casinos do.
If they have an edge, why can't I have one too if the opportunity presents itself? Counting is legal so why isn''t stumbling onto a bad dealer?
The best things in life are not free.
August 26th, 2018 at 11:48:14 AM
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I dont think its illegal. You are preaching to the choir.Quote: LovecompsIf they have an edge, why can't I have one too if the opportunity presents itself? Counting is legal so why isn''t stumbling onto a bad dealer?
You may have missed my point. My point being is that casinos are lacking in morals. Even more so than most AP's.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 26th, 2018 at 12:47:34 PM
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Because it fits here I'm going to tell a story, instead of creating a new thread. Last week I was playing pai gow poker and had a pair in the back with AK up top. The dealer flips over Ah As Joker 3h 3c 4h 6h. He stares at it a minute, and I said, "You have a full house." He then sets the hand with the flush in the back and A 3 up top. He stares at it another minute and then calls the floor over. I say again, "Threes go up top." Floor comes over and says, "Two pair rule", and says to put the joker 6 up top, leaving Aces and threes in the back. So at this point I give up, more than willing to take a push instead of a loss. The dealer and floor discuss it for another minute. Finally another floor person comes over and she says, "It's a full house," and I lose the hand.
If I'm playing by myself I don't let the dealer mis-set the hand, but if others are playing I keep my mouth shut. This time, though, how much more can I do? If the dealers don't know the game, that's on the casino, not me.
If I'm playing by myself I don't let the dealer mis-set the hand, but if others are playing I keep my mouth shut. This time, though, how much more can I do? If the dealers don't know the game, that's on the casino, not me.
August 26th, 2018 at 1:08:20 PM
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Quote: jmillsif others are playing I keep my mouth shut.
IMO everyone has to go by this rule, no matter the game, unless correcting the dealer hurts only you. Then it's up to you; I tend to be inconsistent in the latter case. Our old defender of always backing up the casino's side, the late Paigow Dan, was almost the only one who would disagree with this point .
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
August 26th, 2018 at 4:33:52 PM
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Next time tell your wife to go eat on her own!
August 26th, 2018 at 7:20:53 PM
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Quote: BlackjackGuy123Next time tell your wife to go eat on her own!
Happy wife, happy life trumps basic strategy every time :-)
The best things in life are not free.
August 26th, 2018 at 7:59:06 PM
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If I think the dealer is making a mistake in my favor, I usually just keep my mouth shut. Dealer is trained and paid to do his job and I'm just a country bumpkin who doesn't want to ask ignorant questions that slow the game down.
If I think dealer is making a mistake in the House's favor, then I do speak up. That's a righteous opportunity for me to improve myself by allowing the dealer to download his expertise on me.
If I think dealer is making a mistake in the House's favor, then I do speak up. That's a righteous opportunity for me to improve myself by allowing the dealer to download his expertise on me.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
October 1st, 2018 at 6:15:53 PM
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I was paid on a table limit blackjack where I tossed down two face cards (I had a 20, not a blackjack), and the dealer even hit all the way to 21, still paid me 3:2 a monstrous bet. I kept waiting for someone to show up to reclaim the chips, but it never happened.
Come to think of it, nowadays you can't even touch the BJ cards anymore even at double deck at least not anyplace I can think of, so this could never happen again. It was the psychology of how I tossed those cards down - and, I really was so relieved at what I had been dealt, given the huge bet, and certain that I was going to get paid, that this certainty transmitted "a snapper" to the dealer's brain, such that he paid me on a loser.
Come to think of it, nowadays you can't even touch the BJ cards anymore even at double deck at least not anyplace I can think of, so this could never happen again. It was the psychology of how I tossed those cards down - and, I really was so relieved at what I had been dealt, given the huge bet, and certain that I was going to get paid, that this certainty transmitted "a snapper" to the dealer's brain, such that he paid me on a loser.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
October 1st, 2018 at 6:56:16 PM
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The most mistake-laden dealer I've seen had to have been at the Colorado Belle in Laughlin... I swear, she must've been drunk or high to have performance like that.
I only stuck around for two shuffles off a double-deck with two people, but in that brief time, I had: Cards pitched right off the table, multiple cards pitched at once, cards dealt nowhere near me (over a space away), skipped getting my second card dealt, skipped receiving my first card dealt (and thus my entire hand), got paid on a losing hand, (almost) got money taken on a winning hand, pushed a losing hand, got a mispay.
And my favorite: When checking for blackjack with an ace up, she didn't stick the card in the viewfinder. Instead, she shoved it against the chiprack about an inch and a half away from the viewfinder, looked down, adjusted the cards again, moving it about an inch closer this time, and declared it was fine.
I only stuck around for two shuffles off a double-deck with two people, but in that brief time, I had: Cards pitched right off the table, multiple cards pitched at once, cards dealt nowhere near me (over a space away), skipped getting my second card dealt, skipped receiving my first card dealt (and thus my entire hand), got paid on a losing hand, (almost) got money taken on a winning hand, pushed a losing hand, got a mispay.
And my favorite: When checking for blackjack with an ace up, she didn't stick the card in the viewfinder. Instead, she shoved it against the chiprack about an inch and a half away from the viewfinder, looked down, adjusted the cards again, moving it about an inch closer this time, and declared it was fine.
October 1st, 2018 at 8:03:25 PM
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I know my Uncle, who dealt all casino games in Reno for many years, would say to meQuote: gordonm888If I think the dealer is making a mistake in my favor, I usually just keep my mouth shut. Dealer is trained and paid to do his job and I'm just a country bumpkin who doesn't want to ask ignorant questions that slow the game down.
it would look like, to some, that you are in collusion with the Dealer to cheat the casino when you say NOTHING about a Dealer paying you when you actually lost.
He told me a story when a few players and all the Dealers were arrested for cheating and it was up to the players to say why they did not report a Dealer mistake when it happened.
I do not recall the actual outcome, but I would HATE, with a passion, to be arrested for a Dealer's mistake and be accused of being in on the cheating!
I NOW point out all mistakes to the Dealer at the table when I think I see one
and do not care who gets pissed off.
I really hope you are NEVER at one table I might be at.
I am sorry for letting Dealer mistakes go in the past, never will happen again, unless I am drinking and gambling. And I do do that
the truth is what it is
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
October 1st, 2018 at 8:31:46 PM
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Drinking and gambling is just stupid.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
October 1st, 2018 at 8:32:37 PM
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Quote: mustangsallyHe told me a story when a few players and all the Dealers were arrested for cheating and it was up to the players to say why they did not report a Dealer mistake when it happened.
The correct thing for them to say is first "I remain silent, I want my lawyer," and then "I would like to press charges against whomever filed a false police statement."
Trusting the expert opinion of an expert is not collusion. Especially when they were hired by the opposite side.
This is almost certainly a myth, possibly spread by the house to try to coerce players into not accepting dealer mistakes.
October 1st, 2018 at 8:43:05 PM
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Ive had dealers try to pay me by accident craps when my bets were ' off '... however, i corrected them n never accepted payout.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
October 2nd, 2018 at 8:51:14 AM
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Quote: Zcore13Interesting, because I would have corrected her on each mistake to me. I guess everyone has different morals.
ZCore13
I fail to see how you can let the casino occupy the moral high ground since they will kick me out and bar me forever just because I can do grade school math in my head.
The best things in life are not free.
October 2nd, 2018 at 9:23:53 AM
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is NOT a casino a business to make money for themselvesQuote: LovecompsI fail to see how you can let the casino occupy the moral high ground since they will kick me out and bar me forever just because I can do grade school math in my head.
and provide taxes
and employment for many and a nice environment for those that visit them.
It appears to me, you STATE something as fact for ALL casinos and that is not true, bad!
that is so sad!
not all casinos do and are as you say. where IS your proof of that
come on
bad!
does the money you win from one casino go to pay taxes (I doubt that. keep that a secret. it is your $$$)
and provide jobs for many?
even provide for enjoyment for those that visit a casino?
I thought not
bad!
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
October 2nd, 2018 at 9:25:35 AM
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excellent!Quote: WatchMeWinIve had dealers try to pay me by accident craps when my bets were ' off '... however, i corrected them n never accepted payout.
keep on truckin'
you ROCK!
Sally
it may appear to be an accident and it should be kept that way.
Dealers and players do rip-off (cheat) against casinos.
sad
I Heart Vi Hart
October 2nd, 2018 at 9:39:18 AM
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Quote: LovecompsI fail to see how you can let the casino occupy the moral high ground since they will kick me out and bar me forever just because I can do grade school math in my head.
So, a business that chooses to have rules is immoral? I guess that means a restaraunt that doesn't allow substations is immoral. And a store that doesn't accept checks is immoral. How about a bank that charges an account fee?
But let me guess... places that sell cigarettes and alcohol...they're moral. Churches that coax money out of people or hide sexual abuse. Good holy places, right? Got any car salesman friends? They sell the same car to different people for different prices. Moral?
Try not blaming other things for the way you behave. Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. You aren't born with any rights to make your own rules in someone else's business. If you are ok with a businesses rules and like the way they treat you, go there. If you don't, don't. But don't play holier than thou when its convenient for you. I would not accept a mistake in my favor if I knew about it at the time at any business.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 2nd, 2018 at 10:42:52 AM
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Says the guy making a career out of working for predatory employers.
Is talking stick back up and running or did the man upstairs intervene again?
Is talking stick back up and running or did the man upstairs intervene again?
October 2nd, 2018 at 10:45:26 AM
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Quote: mcallister3200Says the guy making a career out of working for predatory employers.
You say that as if it it is a bad thing.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 2nd, 2018 at 3:01:46 PM
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I pretty much always agree with, and enjoy, Zcores posts. Yes, that being said I couldn’t disagree more here.
Among the LARGE LIST of reasons to take dealer misspays... the biggest one by far, is 9/10 miss pays I see are AGAINST the players. I’m not joking... I have played thousands and thousands of hours over a decade and I’m positive that the mistake ratio over my career thus far is at least 8-1 in favor of the House. I’ve been at casinos where I’m confident the dealer is INTENTIONALLY making “mistakes” and taking player money. Thus, the #1 reason you should take misspays in your favor is because the casino already (illegally) is making more in the other direction.
Now get in to some other reasons... not my job to correct dealers, don’t want to piss other players off, the vast majority of casinos are shady and predatory (encouraging drunks to play, bet more, sending mailers to gambling addicts), plus EV to my livelyhood and income, etc, etc.
Sally - if that ever happened to me, I’d ask the police to review the tapes from JUST THAT DAY and if they didn’t find 1 case of the house taking money when they shouldn’t then I’d plead guilty and pay whatever the casino wants me to as a fine. However, if they find EVEN ONE then the dealer, pit, and shift supervisor must all also be immediately arrested and treated the same way as in being treated. Any lawyer would have a field day with this.
Among the LARGE LIST of reasons to take dealer misspays... the biggest one by far, is 9/10 miss pays I see are AGAINST the players. I’m not joking... I have played thousands and thousands of hours over a decade and I’m positive that the mistake ratio over my career thus far is at least 8-1 in favor of the House. I’ve been at casinos where I’m confident the dealer is INTENTIONALLY making “mistakes” and taking player money. Thus, the #1 reason you should take misspays in your favor is because the casino already (illegally) is making more in the other direction.
Now get in to some other reasons... not my job to correct dealers, don’t want to piss other players off, the vast majority of casinos are shady and predatory (encouraging drunks to play, bet more, sending mailers to gambling addicts), plus EV to my livelyhood and income, etc, etc.
Sally - if that ever happened to me, I’d ask the police to review the tapes from JUST THAT DAY and if they didn’t find 1 case of the house taking money when they shouldn’t then I’d plead guilty and pay whatever the casino wants me to as a fine. However, if they find EVEN ONE then the dealer, pit, and shift supervisor must all also be immediately arrested and treated the same way as in being treated. Any lawyer would have a field day with this.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
October 2nd, 2018 at 3:13:46 PM
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arrest on what charge(s)Quote: RomesHowever, if they find EVEN ONE then the dealer, pit, and shift supervisor must all also be immediately arrested and treated the same way as in being treated. Any lawyer would have a field day with this.
it is a true fact that Dealers cheat the casino they work at. not all but more than 0 do. how many get caught?
less than 100%...
it is also true that players cheat the casino. we all should know between right and wrong and cheat is what it is.
sometime Dealers and players are in bed together cheating the casino.
it happens more than 0 times per year.
stop the cheating!
call out the mistakes and play fair and honest!
the casino games are NOT fair as there is a house edge
so buyer beware
and stop all the cheating
I still know that the most common AP in the US is at Roulette and has been for many years.
get your chips, cash out and keep a few (some teams keep a stack)
and cash them back in later when the chip value is higher.
I seen it done and it was easy
it was still wrong, because it is not fair, and most call that cheating
I also know you are talking about confirmation bias
good for you
and
thank you for sharing your opinions too
Sally
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
October 2nd, 2018 at 4:12:50 PM
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Quote: Zcore13So, a business that chooses to have rules is immoral?
I believe there is something inherently dishonest and immoral about offering a game, and then creating an unwritten rule that players are not allowed to be skilled at that game.
October 2nd, 2018 at 4:58:02 PM
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My outlook is 1) casinos are a dirty business, exploiting ignorance and addiction. I've worked in one and I didn't feel great about it. Apart from the strip or a similar destination, most patrons are worse off for visiting. Many are far worse off.
Whatever jobs and taxes are provided are a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done.
Is it ok to steal from a theif, though? I'm not sure. But perhaps.
Ultimately, the casino offers games that they make the rules for and administer. They invite you to come in and play them. If you can literally beat them at their own game without breaking the law, good for you.
I don't expect them to allow winners to crush them indefinitely though.
Whatever jobs and taxes are provided are a drop in the bucket compared to the damage done.
Is it ok to steal from a theif, though? I'm not sure. But perhaps.
Ultimately, the casino offers games that they make the rules for and administer. They invite you to come in and play them. If you can literally beat them at their own game without breaking the law, good for you.
I don't expect them to allow winners to crush them indefinitely though.
October 2nd, 2018 at 5:19:07 PM
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Quote: mustangsally
stop the cheating!
call out the mistakes and play fair and honest!
Let me share a story with you about something that actually happened. I was at a BJ table years ago with 3 other people-total strangers. At the end of the shoe one of the players asked to color up. He colored up with a little over $500 but instead of a pink chip the dealer gave him a yellow. The whole table (except the dealer) saw it and the guy got away from the table as fast as he could. We all kept our mouth's shut and let the guy go. If you were at the table with us would you bring it to the dealer's attention (in the name of calling out mistakes, playing fair, and being honest), or would you have minded your own business like the rest of us did?
Would anyone else do that and point the guy out to the pit boss, or would you keep quiet and stay out of it?
Be honest.
The best things in life are not free.
October 2nd, 2018 at 6:12:05 PM
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Quote: LovecompsLet me share a story with you about something that actually happened. I was at a BJ table years ago with 3 other people-total strangers. At the end of the shoe one of the players asked to color up. He colored up with a little over $500 but instead of a pink chip the dealer gave him a yellow. The whole table (except the dealer) saw it and the guy got away from the table as fast as he could. We all kept our mouth's shut and let the guy go. If you were at the table with us would you bring it to the dealer's attention (in the name of calling out mistakes, playing fair, and being honest), or would you have minded your own business like the rest of us did?
Would anyone else do that and point the guy out to the pit boss, or would you keep quiet and stay out of it?
Be honest.
I purposely avoid watching such things to avoid potential conflict.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
October 2nd, 2018 at 6:54:23 PM
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Quote: Zcore13But don't play holier than thou when its convenient for you. I would not accept a mistake in my favor if I knew about it at the time at any business.
ZCore13
Good, point out all the dealer mistakes you notice that are in your favor. I'm sure there will be 77 virgins for you in heaven because of your great morality. Of course, you work for a casino, so you have a financial self-interest in advocating that other people do this. So maybe only 76 virgins for you.
We all have seen casinos do unconscionable things. The casino business arose from the Mafia, and there is a stain on this business because of how they continue to act and where they came from. No amount of apologizing by Zcore13 can erase or deny that stain.
Come to think of it, when you get to heaven, all you are getting is a Hustler magazine and a pack of Kleenex tissue.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
October 3rd, 2018 at 1:45:57 AM
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Quote: gordonm888Good, point out all the dealer mistakes you notice that are in your favor. I'm sure there will be 77 virgins for you in heaven because of your great morality. Of course, you work for a casino, so you have a financial self-interest in advocating that other people do this. So maybe only 76 virgins for you.
We all have seen casinos do unconscionable things. The casino business arose from the Mafia, and there is a stain on this business because of how they continue to act and where they came from. No amount of apologizing by Zcore13 can erase or deny that stain.
Come to think of it, when you get to heaven, all you are getting is a Hustler magazine and a pack of Kleenex tissue.
What's the difference where I work? I correct errors in my favor at the gas station, grocery store and anywhere else. I don't interject if it's another player or customer getting the benefit of a mistake. That's for them to live with. I just don't accept human errors that cod get them in trouble when they are conducting business with me.
If someone drinks to much at the casino, who's fault is that? Any answer other than the person is ridiculous. If someone gambles too much, who's fault is that? The casino for mailing offers? Hardly. Is McDonalds at fault for feeding people with high blood pressure? Should a buffet be held liable for allowing fat people to overeat?
Las Vegas is a whole different beast, but the two places I've worked in Arizona, neither one allows intoxicated players to play. I get players an Uber/taxi every night I work. Not only is it not fair to take money from an obviously intoxicated player, in Az the server is held personally liable, a long with the casino Az a business, for over-serving that results in an accident. I also suggest and assist with players excluding themselves if the have a gambling problem. I personally would not work somewhere that knowingly takes advantage of people's intoxication or addiction.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:45:08 AM
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It's the casinos job to recruit and train their staff effectively. If they are incompetent and I benefit from that, great! As Romes said, dealers make a lot more errors to the detriment of the players than they do to their benefit. No ordinary basic strategy player is playing against the house edge as published unless they are making 100% certain they spot and catch all of the errors against them.
In casinos customers are encouraged to make poor gambling decisions which can easily lead to them losing lots of money. Some casinos would not allow customers to play if they are flaming drunk, however I have never seen a casino turn away a players money because they were somewhat drunk after having a few pints.
The fact that they serve alcohol in an environment in which people are encouraged to make risky negative-value financial decisions is bad enough, that they have staff employed to come to the tables and offer it to the patrons makes it much worse. They prefer players to have alcohol in their system so that they make poor decisions and have reduced impulse control.
In casinos customers are encouraged to make poor gambling decisions which can easily lead to them losing lots of money. Some casinos would not allow customers to play if they are flaming drunk, however I have never seen a casino turn away a players money because they were somewhat drunk after having a few pints.
The fact that they serve alcohol in an environment in which people are encouraged to make risky negative-value financial decisions is bad enough, that they have staff employed to come to the tables and offer it to the patrons makes it much worse. They prefer players to have alcohol in their system so that they make poor decisions and have reduced impulse control.
October 3rd, 2018 at 5:47:03 AM
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Quote: blackjackladIt's the casinos job to recruit and train their staff effectively. If they are incompetent and I benefit from that, great! As Romes said, dealers make a lot more errors to the detriment of the players than they do to their benefit. No ordinary basic strategy player is playing against the house edge as published unless they are making 100% certain they spot and catch all of the errors against them.
In casinos customers are encouraged to make poor gambling decisions which can easily lead to them losing lots of money. Some casinos would not allow customers to play if they are flaming drunk, however I have never seen a casino turn away a players money because they were somewhat drunk after having a few pints.
The fact that they serve alcohol in an environment in which people are encouraged to make risky negative-value financial decisions is bad enough, that they have staff employed to come to the tables and offer it to the patrons makes it much worse. They prefer players to have alcohol in their system so that they make poor decisions and have reduced impulse control.
Nothing you said is based on facts or more than very limited personal experience. That a dealer makes more mistakes against a player than for is just pure opinion. I personally see tons of mistakes for the player in Carnival Games, especially Texas Holdem variations. Lots of dealers struggle with Holden games and listen to what players say on who's hand wins. I'd say Carnival game eros lead towards player 60/40. Maybe even as high as 70/30.
I'd say blackjack errors are about 50/50.
The thing about dealer errors is Supervisors get called and its noticable when a mistake goes against a player. When the mistake is for the player, most players don't say anything so there's no Supervisor call and it goes unnoticed. So, it could definitely seem like there are more errors against a player, but there arent. I've done hundreds, of not into the 1,000's of dealer audits and video reviews.
95% of dealers want players to win. They have no interest or gain from making or hiding mistakes against a player.
Sounds like you are one of those that blames the casino for players being intoxicated. I've been in a casino about 3,000 times for a total of about 24,000 hours. Not once have I ever seen a player forced to drink. Never even seen a player say no and an employee insist they drink until they change their mind.
As a player, I've never drank so much that i was at a greater disadvantage than just the house edge. Why has the casino never got me drunk and taken advantage of me? Am I really lucky? Or do I just choose, just like anyone else can, to not get drunk?
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 3rd, 2018 at 12:53:44 PM
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People need to take accountability for their actions. Too many people look to game the system and are always looking to blame others.
If you drink too much at a ballpark or a casino and then go and get in a car accident, it's your fault for drinking too much not the establishment that sold you the booze. Yet lawyers find ways 2 get money for their clients by suing the establishment.
Have there been any cases where someone has won a lawsuit against a casino for losing money after they got drunk from the establishment? This would be interesting
If you drink too much at a ballpark or a casino and then go and get in a car accident, it's your fault for drinking too much not the establishment that sold you the booze. Yet lawyers find ways 2 get money for their clients by suing the establishment.
Have there been any cases where someone has won a lawsuit against a casino for losing money after they got drunk from the establishment? This would be interesting
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:02:57 PM
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Quote: WatchMeWinHave there been any cases where someone has won a lawsuit against a casino for losing money after they got drunk from the establishment? This would be interesting
Not a lawsuit, but Caesars Palace got a $225,000 fine in the Terrance Watanabe case.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 3rd, 2018 at 4:33:19 PM
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This reminds me, can anyone give me a synopsis of “Winning Without Counting” by Stanford Wong, and speak to whether any of the info is still relevant or not.
October 3rd, 2018 at 5:08:10 PM
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Quote: WizardNot a lawsuit, but Caesars Palace got a $225,000 fine in the Terrance Watanabe case.
You beat me to the punch with that remark. He also sued to get back some of his losses on those grounds but never got a cent. Steve Wynn showed him the door long before he could get sued. Still, pay a $225,000 fine and keep $204,000.000 isn't such a bad deal if you ask me.
In the end though, in my opinion, he created his own mess.
The best things in life are not free.
October 3rd, 2018 at 6:57:25 PM
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Quote: gamerfreakThis reminds me, can anyone give me a synopsis of “Winning Without Counting” by Stanford Wong, and speak to whether any of the info is still relevant or not.
Good question. That is one of the few Wong books I do not own. It was published in 1980, when there were probably more angles to the game. Just a guess -- he probably advocated looking for the best rules possible and then doing an eyeball scan of the table and just betting more when a lot of small cards come out and less with a lot of paint and aces.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 3rd, 2018 at 7:14:44 PM
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Quote: WizardGood question. That is one of the few Wong books I do not own. It was published in 1980, when there were probably more angles to the game. Just a guess -- he probably advocated looking for the best rules possible and then doing an eyeball scan of the table and just betting more when a lot of small cards come out and less with a lot of paint and aces.
There doesn’t seem to be a ton of copies floating around. I just grabbed the only one on Amazon < $80. There’s another one on eBay for $28, which is what I paid.
I’ll post a review once I get it.
October 3rd, 2018 at 7:22:26 PM
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I honestly don’t remember if I’ve read it or not...I do know I’ve read wong talking about warps, first basing and dealer tells in one of his books all of which would be rare or out of date now. Looking forward to hearing what you think of it.
October 3rd, 2018 at 8:20:27 PM
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Quote: gamerfreakI’ll post a review once I get it.
I look forward to the review. If you ever want to sell your copy, let me know. I have a decent collection of gambling books going.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 3rd, 2018 at 8:38:15 PM
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Who was the guy that advocated finding tables with dirty ashtrays?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
March 19th, 2019 at 7:49:40 PM
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Quote: Zcore13Interesting, because I would have corrected her on each mistake to me. I guess everyone has different morals.
ZCore13
Morals matter but there is another issue to consider. The eye in the sky may have caught the incorrect payouts. If they also record you correcting you gain some credit with casino bosses for doing the right thing. The numbers couldn't have been that big if there is a $100 cap on bets. Getting a reputation as someone willing to do the right thing when not required is a character trait that cannot be bought.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:40:40 AM
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Quote: billryanWho was the guy that advocated finding tables with dirty ashtrays?
That was Jerry Patterson. A one time respected expert until he promoted TARGET system and Clumping. What he sold was for mainly recreational players to analyze "winning tables" and players attitudes. You looked to see if there were dirty ashtrays, meaning someone was staying there awhile; multi unit bets v minimum bets; laughing and joking v down in the mouth players; dealer "breaking" dealers "drawing out", etc. Other factors that were observational v mathematically based.
While he was excoriated for this, no one seems to remember that part of his system was basic high low counting. He sold flash cards to learn basic strategy and variations and taught hi low as part of this TARGET system.
