Ap'ing Credit Cards & Miles

Anyone else out there interested in AP'ing credit cards for perks?

I haven't done it much in the last few years but over the weekend a situation presented itself and I started again. In the last two days I signed up for four new credit cards. Three of the cards award airline miles totaling 180,000 miles and the other is just a 15 month no interest and no balance transfer fees card.

What prompted this was a purchase that I am making for just over $10k. I decided when spending that much I should put it on a credit card to get some miles. I then realized I could break the $10k over multiple cards to optimize my rewards. The three miles cards require: $4000 spent to get 60,000 miles, $3500 spent to get 50,000 miles, and $2000 spent to get 70,000 miles. I will spend my $10k across those three cards to get the miles and after the first month transfer them over to the 0% interest card and leave it there for a year or so. When the free interest is over I will just cut them a check. In the mean-time I hope to get four free roundtrip flights for my miles accrued.

I have a few cash back cards that I use for everything and pay off every month. It's literally free money.

I'm simply not organized enough to do it big time.
I did do a cash advance from Jet Blue, zero interest, one percent transfer fee, but other than that and my Aamazon card, I try to pay cash.
While doing that can be lucrative, it has many pitfalls. Avoid them and it's great.

I've been interested in doing something similar for quite some time, but it's just one area I have yet to put in a ton of time/research. For example, you got 180k miles... what/where could that get you? Could that get you to Europe, Japan, New Zealand, etc? Could it get first class? If that was enough miles to get 2 first class tickets I think that's what I'd be looking to do for my travels. I thought cards got a lot stingier now days since tons of people AP'd them, so to say, years back?

Quote: Romes

I've been interested in doing something similar for quite some time, but it's just one area I have yet to put in a ton of time/research. For example, you got 180k miles... what/where could that get you? Could that get you to Europe, Japan, New Zealand, etc? Could it get first class? If that was enough miles to get 2 first class tickets I think that's what I'd be looking to do for my travels. I thought cards got a lot stingier now days since tons of people AP'd them, so to say, years back?

Last time I researched the airline miles cards, I realized I didn't fly enough to make it worth it. When you use the card, you get so many points that equate to dollars that you can use to buy plane tickets, but if you get a regular cash back credit card, you get an equal amount of cash you can use for anything.

For example:

500 airline points = $500 dollars to buy a plane ticket only

500 cash back points = $500 dollars cash in your pocket

I'd be interested to see what the exact cards that DRich signed up for, because when I was credit card shopping several months ago I couldn't find any with nearly that good a deal.

I hear a lot about these "miles" people are supposedly getting. My understanding was that sh**'s gaffed and it's like, "Oh, you want to fly any time that's convenient? -- that'll be a 100x miles upcharge. Want to fly any time within 3 weeks of a holiday? -- Can't do that, blackout dates n such."

Can you pick your own airline, is it for a specific airline (or group of airlines), or do they assign you a certain airline?

I always just do cashback. I'd consider airline miles if they ended up being worth more than 2%-5% of what I spent on the card, but I have a feeling that's not usually the case. I spend about $50k on Amazon each year for business expenses, and get 5% cashback using their store card, which is not an insignificant amount of money.

Then, a local bank runs a promotion where they will pay you a bonus to transfer a balance, and waive the transfer fee. So I'll transfer balances to that card and pay them off immediately to get a little extra cashback.

Quote: Romes

I've been interested in doing something similar for quite some time, but it's just one area I have yet to put in a ton of time/research. For example, you got 180k miles... what/where could that get you? Could that get you to Europe, Japan, New Zealand, etc? Could it get first class? If that was enough miles to get 2 first class tickets I think that's what I'd be looking to do for my travels. I thought cards got a lot stingier now days since tons of people AP'd them, so to say, years back?

Cards are a lot stingier than they used to be and the airlines make it harder to use the points, but if you are willing to put in the time and plan ahead they are still a good deal.

I imagine I will save about $1,500 in air travel with these and it was money I was planning on spending anyway.

Quote: RS

I hear a lot about these "miles" people are supposedly getting. My understanding was that sh**'s gaffed and it's like, "Oh, you want to fly any time that's convenient? -- that'll be a 100x miles upcharge. Want to fly any time within 3 weeks of a holiday? -- Can't do that, blackout dates n such."

Can you pick your own airline, is it for a specific airline (or group of airlines), or do they assign you a certain airline?

Yeah, I think it's not necessarily a scam, but definitely misleading. Like, when I was looking at some, they were like "50,000 mile bonus!" That's enough to fly around the world twice, but of course that's not what you really get. "Miles" is just the word they use for "points," so 50,000 miles is 50,000 points, and 100 points equals $1. So, 50,000 miles equals $500 you can put towards a plane ticket.

Quote: RS

I hear a lot about these "miles" people are supposedly getting. My understanding was that sh**'s gaffed and it's like, "Oh, you want to fly any time that's convenient? -- that'll be a 100x miles upcharge. Want to fly any time within 3 weeks of a holiday? -- Can't do that, blackout dates n such."

Can you pick your own airline, is it for a specific airline (or group of airlines), or do they assign you a certain airline?

You are right, you do need to work around their schedules to really take advantage of it. Last year my wife and I were able to fly roundtrip from Las Vegas to the Caribbean for 50,000 miles total (12,500 each way). To get it for that cheap we did have to make two stops on the way back (I think it was Miami and Charlotte) and both flights were during the week and not on weekends.

If you are heading to Atlantis from almost anywhere, you can generally save serious money by flying through Charlotte. Not really sure why, but last trip our party of six saved $1300 roundtrip for a two hour layover each way.

While there is still value in the miles, points, airlines/hotel status and credit card bonus game it certainly is not what it was like in the past. Consolidation of the airline/hotel/credit industry has brought about many changes. As already mentioned, it requires research, patience, and planning. 2 important things I learned when I was more active in this world (and this applies to casinos and their point programs as well):
1) Miles and points are essentially a rebate (some even call it a kickback).
2) This rebate will be issued in a "currency" (points and miles) that can (and will) be devalued over time.
So my advice would be to have a plan for how you want to use the miles/points. There are many sites on the web that deal specifically in these topics. I have been involved in a few over the years, but the only one I frequent regularly nowadays is Flyertalk.

The points guy is also a great resource for the best deals, but note he does accept advertising and puts it right out there when you visit his site. I still find him as the expert on the subject.

https://thepointsguy.com/

I am a fan of the doctor of credit blog.

I work the miles system pretty hard, and in my experience if you are willing to put the time in, you can usually find the flights you want. A lot of the value comes from business and first class tickets, if that isn't important to you it might not be worth it. I was on the GWAE podcast talking about it (under the name cartwright) and have managed to take some fantastic trips thanks to credit cards.

What I tend to do if I'm not planning a major trip is just time things with major purchases. Much easier than manufacturing spend. When I have a big purchase coming, I get a new card or call existing cards and get retention bonuses. I also try to use the right card for each purchase to maximize bonus categories.

You can put as much or as little time into it as you want, but I highly recommend at least paying attention to what cards you have and leveraging the benefits.

Ha, I have your appearance on GWAE as a "re-listen and take notes" for when I finally put the time in to researching AP'ing CC's. Thanks for sharing all that info when you were on! My dream is to take a flight to either Japan, or New Zealand, first class, and to do it with points. Is there any kind of checklist towards making these goals happen? Something like:

1) find best CC with miles (or points, or cashback, or whatever I'm not sure)
2) is there a specific sign up time (such as new members with casinos type stuff) or is it more important to time some bigger purchases?
3) do you have to let the purchase cycle to get hit with interest, or can I simply pay it off instantly (or move it to a 0% interest for a year card/etc)?
4) do you typically need multiple cards or a large "coin in" on purchases to get enough miles for what I'm trying to accomplish?
5) do the points/miles expire after so long? if they don't would it be best practice to simply charge everything to that card then just pay it off instantly?
6) I assume they're restricted with blackout dates, etc, but I'd imagine this is the grunt work of looking up when you CAN use the miles and actually booking a comped first class flight? =)

I fly American Airlines almost exclusively for multiple reasons including they fly nonstop multiple times a day to the places I go from Philly. When they merged with US Air, they kept Philly as a hub and still fly almost everywhere. As such I use the Barclays Aviator Platinum card. it does have a higher fee than the basic card but it gives 3x miles on flight purchases and 2x on Rental Cars and Hotels. As I own a business I use it for almost everything I can and have the ability to pay it off each month so interest is charged.

Miles to fly have gone up in the past few years but if you are flexible and look, you can usually find 12500 legs to most places. Also with the card you get 5000 miles back for each round trip you book with miles so a 25K Round Trip is only 20K. You also accumulate extra miles toward Gold and Platinum with your spending so becoming a preferred flyer is easier.

If you have the discipline to pay the card off each month and only purchase things you were going to (Like any CC), there is no reason to not use the best card for your needs.

Here is a link to the AA Site on miles usage: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/flight-award-chart.jsp

Again the key is booking early and being flexible with dates and flight times to get the lowest mileage flights.

Last year I got a Capital One card. It had a promo for spend $5,000 in 90 days, get 50,000 points. Nice thing about Cap One is you charge any flight you want, and then simply call them ten days later and they apply points on a dollar basis. I bought a RT ticket on Jet Blue and a car rental. Came to $560.00 I had 62,000 points so I didn't pay a dime. I just got my renewal, at $59. If they don't waive the fee, I'll cancel the card.
I still prefer to pay cash whenever possible.

Quote: Romes

Ha, I have your appearance on GWAE as a "re-listen and take notes" for when I finally put the time in to researching AP'ing CC's. Thanks for sharing all that info when you were on! My dream is to take a flight to either Japan, or New Zealand, first class, and to do it with points. Is there any kind of checklist towards making these goals happen? Something like:

1) find best CC with miles (or points, or cashback, or whatever I'm not sure)
2) is there a specific sign up time (such as new members with casinos type stuff) or is it more important to time some bigger purchases?
3) do you have to let the purchase cycle to get hit with interest, or can I simply pay it off instantly (or move it to a 0% interest for a year card/etc)?
4) do you typically need multiple cards or a large "coin in" on purchases to get enough miles for what I'm trying to accomplish?
5) do the points/miles expire after so long? if they don't would it be best practice to simply charge everything to that card then just pay it off instantly?
6) I assume they're restricted with blackout dates, etc, but I'd imagine this is the grunt work of looking up when you CAN use the miles and actually booking a comped first class flight? =)

Best approach is to decide where you want to go and target things to that. For instance, my wife and I decided Japan and Thailand for our honeymoon. From there, I researched best airlines to fly to Japan from the west coast, Cathay Pacific and JAL being the top candidates. Based on that, AA miles were considered most valuable, so we churned a bunch of AA cards. We also got the Hyatt and SPG cards to cover hotels, which was great. 4 nights at Park Hyatt Tokyo was terrific.

Once you know the airlines/hotels you want, you pick your cards and programs. Credit cards aren't the only way to get points, shopping portals are great, too, for instance. The MileagePlus X app is also very handy. It all adds up and you can sometimes double and triple dip with portals and bonus categories.

To answer your questions...

1) see above on how to pick the best CC. Target your specific trip. Getting too general runs the risk of having a bunch of points sitting around devaluing and not getting used. The order is also important, you don't want to run against Chase's 5/24 rule.
2) do some research to see what the historically best signup bonus is and try to target it. Sometimes and big purchase trumps that, but in general you want to get the best deal you can.
3) pay off every month! DO NOT PAY INTEREST! If you can't afford to pay your cc off every month, you are doing it wrong.
4) depends on the bonuses you get and what you want to do. My wife and I went through a bunch of cards for our honeymoon and ended up with more miles than we needed.
5) most don't expire or will not expire as long as you have some activity. There are a few exceptions, so good to research.
6) availability will vary wildly depending on the airline and route. You have to find the right tools and do a lot of searching. Search individual legs and put together a route on your own if the sites aren't finding one. Sometimes you have to call to book on partner airlines, so don't solely rely on online tools.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask questions or PM me if you'd like.

If you get into a situation where you have to manufacture spend, that requires a whole other layer of effort.

Quote: billryan

Last year I got a Capital One card. It had a promo for spend $5,000 in 90 days, get 50,000 points. Nice thing about Cap One is you charge any flight you want, and then simply call them ten days later and they apply points on a dollar basis. I bought a RT ticket on Jet Blue and a car rental. Came to $560.00 I had 62,000 points so I didn't pay a dime. I just got my renewal, at $59. If they don't waive the fee, I'll cancel the card.
I still prefer to pay cash whenever possible.

If you typically fly coach that can be a convenient way to go. If you want to do international business or first class, you can get a lot more value ($/pt) but that assumes you value that experience.

Good point on waiving the fee. A lot of the major cards are $450+ per year, so it can get very expensive to renew. You should always call and try to get a retention bonus, and cancel if it isn't worth it to you.

Quote: jopke

If you get into a situation where you have to manufacture spend, that requires a whole other layer of effort.

It wasn't that long ago that you could buy dollar coins from the mint at face value and free shipping. That was the perfect way to do it. I would guess my mailman delivered close to a half million dollars in coins to my house.

Really appreciate the reply/information. Looks like the first task is to set a much more specific trip with defined parameters. I'm sure more questions will arise =p but thanks again for your time/information.

Some airline branded credit cards include a waiver of the checked bag fees. That can be at least a $50 savings for every round trip if you are loyal to a particular airline.

Just something to keep in mind in addition to the miles earning part of the card.

Quote: DRich

It wasn't that long ago that you could buy dollar coins from the mint at face value and free shipping. That was the perfect way to do it. I would guess my mailman delivered close to a half million dollars in coins to my house.

I only remember quarters with this maneuver, but it was a great MS tactic.
----------


jopke has provided some great information.

First class vs Business class can be confusing. Only a few airlines have actual "First Class" cabins. Most would be considered "Business" or "International Business".

I recently stopped using my American Airlines card for business purchases and got the Spark Card from Chase...2% Cash back seems better than any airline mileage program over the long term (and the $500 sign up bonus) and I don't have the time to jump from card to card for the start up promotions. That being said, I did just pay off a 17 month 0% balance transfer opportunity...there are dollars to be saved there if you want to get some free access to capital for 12+ months.

My ex, a true world traveller, is an expert on this. She has a rotating stock of cc's which she cancels as soon as the initial big perk requirement has been met. She also gets occasional free access to airline clubs which is a big bonus for her. You basically need to be able to spend 3-5k over a 3 month period to get the bonus miles. I think when I retire this will become a side gig for me, as my travel will increase. Now a lot of my flights are paid for by someone else, so I am not as itchy to get free flights.... Yet...
She is in Mongolia now....

Quote: SOOPOO

My ex, a true world traveller, is an expert on this. She has a rotating stock of cc's which she cancels as soon as the initial big perk requirement has been met...

What does this do to one's credit score? Of course they're not "even" about it. When you open up a new credit card and have a new line of credit to you, your credit score goes up. When you close/cancel a credit card you lose that line of credit. Thus, your credit score goes down. I've had people within the CC industry tell me that when you close/cancel it goes down more than it went up. Not a HUGE difference, but if one were to run through 10-20 CC's I'd imagine enough of a difference?

Quote: Romes

What does this do to one's credit score? Of course they're not "even" about it. When you open up a new credit card and have a new line of credit to you, your credit score goes up. When you close/cancel a credit card you lose that line of credit. Thus, your credit score goes down. I've had people within the CC industry tell me that when you close/cancel it goes down more than it went up. Not a HUGE difference, but if one were to run through 10-20 CC's I'd imagine enough of a difference?

It is the amount of total credit available that you have that causes the score to go up and down in that scenario. For example, If you close a card that has a $10k limit but didn't have a balance the previous month it will generally go down less than if you paid off a balance and closed the card. The credit bureaus reward you for having a lot of credit available but more important is how much of that credit is being used. I don't know what the optimal number is but I would guess around 20% utilization of available credit cards.

I have great credit but my score would be higher if I carried more balances on my cards. I am just starting to use the 0% cards more and carry a balance on them to raise my score.

I am a big proponent of CreditKarma.com as they show you two of your scores and most of the information in your file and the site is completely free and no credit card is required.

If you churn properly, your credit score should go up. I had absolutely no credit five years ago, started at 700-710, now my FICO is 780 (credit karma fako puts me closer to 800). Naturally you may get close to your credit limit on a single card and this will hurt your credit score for a short period, but as long as you have other accounts that are fine it won't be that bad.

American miles suck. They really, really suck. They had an official devaluation and an unofficial devaluation (loss of availability on almost every route) over the past few years. AA went from being the best to being the worst since the a-holes at US Air took over (maybe slight exaggeration, Delta skypesos are really bad). Not meant to be a direct attack on Boz, he's hub-locked and has to do what he has to do, but people here should not be stockpiling AA miles if they can help it.

Quote: DRich

It wasn't that long ago that you could buy dollar coins from the mint at face value and free shipping. That was the perfect way to do it. I would guess my mailman delivered close to a half million dollars in coins to my house.

That's awesome - talk about a free cash advance! So, did you turn around and use the coins to pay off your card each cycle? In addition to cash back or miles accumulation, this method possibly also helped create/improve your credit score. ++EV

Quote: TigerWu

I have a few cash back cards that I use for everything and pay off every month. It's literally free money.

This is what I do. And since Discover has certain types of purchases (gas, restaurants, online merchants, etc.) that will earn 5% back, I use it for just those things. (The types of purchases rotate every quarter.)

Of course, the downside of opening multiple accounts just to earn the miles, etc. is that your credit score takes a hit each time.

Unless you are buying a house , your credit score is meaningless unless its totally tanked. There is literally no difference between a 600 and a 799 score, unless you are seeking a mortgage. Opening and closing CCs won't put you below 600 , if you pay your bills on time.

Quote: SOOPOO

My ex, a true world traveller, is an expert on this. She has a rotating stock of cc's which she cancels as soon as the initial big perk requirement has been met. She also gets occasional free access to airline clubs which is a big bonus for her. You basically need to be able to spend 3-5k over a 3 month period to get the bonus miles. I think when I retire this will become a side gig for me, as my travel will increase. Now a lot of my flights are paid for by someone else, so I am not as itchy to get free flights.... Yet...
She is in Mongolia now....

This is exactly what I do. I decided a few years ago that I no longer wanted to travel internationally in economy/coach so took to this type of activity. Not just credit cards though, there are plenty of other ways. I have just taken out a life insurance policy where I will pay 5x$5 monthly premiums and receive 20k AMEX reward pts. Then there was the time I made 180,000 1c payments on a phone bill over a 2yr period.

There are plenty of opportunities for anyone willing to put in the time and effort. I added it up recently and I've redeemed more than 2m miles in the last two years.

I live in the UK, and this sort of thing seems far easier/more prevalent in the US. Credit card signup bonuses are pretty shit here in comparison. There are a few opportunities (churning the amex reward cards, getting the annual upgrade/241 vouchers based on your preference), but not as many. I've been meaning to look into it, but at the moment I have a card that costs me £25/yr and gives me 1.25% cashback on all my purchases, which is 'good enough'.