Dice control to hit a specific spot?

I can't believe I'm actually in this subforum................

I never believed in dice control.

Well now, here I am.


Ok so, long story short, I found a craps table that is not supervised, only watched by 1 dealer, and a "both dice must hit back wall" rule.

The area between "back wall" and "not back wall", let's consider that grey area maybe about 1/4 inch wide.

I got screwed earlier and lost money but that led me to find out something interesting.

Basically I found a dealer who, in ambiguous rolls, would decide valid roll/no roll with his discretion, in favor of the people tipping him.

A guy hit that "grey area" twice at the exact same spot, and dealer called one roll valid and the other one invalid.


So I'm thinking, to AP this, one just needs to be able to throw the dice in a way that maximizes the chance of the dice landing in the grey zone, while tipping the dealer generously.

Kinda thinking of it like a 3 point shot in basketball from half court maybe


How doable is it to somewhat accurately throw at least one dice into a 1/4 inch zone to overcome the -EV of the dealer tip and the game itself?

If it's doable, how does one do it?

Surely this is easier than trying to roll snake eyes every roll?

Dealers may only give 2 warnings to a player for both dice to hit the back wall, and it is extremely dealer dependent. Some dealers don't really care and others are strict or too strict. It may also have to do with the pit boss watching the game too. I'm a lazy shooter, or a weak shooter, not sure. So I've got to change my usual shooting patterns for the crew at the table. I don't win enough to tip at the table yet. I'd probably tip $1 for every $500 I'm ahead, but that's just me. To insure prompt profits.

If you get a third warning, they may just say pass the dice to the next player immediately, won't even let you shoot for the point. They may keep you from tossing dice for the rest of the night. I don't know if that exclusion carries over to other days at the craps table, but I've seen too many players excluded from throwing the dice locally. It looks like a crimped game when 2-4 players on a full table can't throw the dice. If they do throw, the suits arrive and get verbal, so duh.

Quote: ChumpChange

Dealers may only give 2 warnings to a player for both dice to hit the back wall, and it is extremely dealer dependent. Some dealers don't really care and others are strict or too strict. It may also have to do with the pit boss watching the game too. I'm a lazy shooter, or a weak shooter, not sure. So I've got to change my usual shooting patterns for the crew at the table. I don't win enough to tip at the table yet. I'd probably tip $1 for every $500 I'm ahead, but that's just me. To insure prompt profits.

If you get a third warning, they may just say pass the dice to the next player immediately, won't even let you shoot for the point. They may keep you from tossing dice for the rest of the night. I don't know if that exclusion carries over to other days at the craps table, but I've seen too many players excluded from throwing the dice locally. It looks like a crimped game when 2-4 players on a full table can't throw the dice. If they do throw, the suits arrive and get verbal, so duh.
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No pitboss. No restrictions on reroll, within common sense of course.

Find a bar where off-duty dealers congregate and buy some friendships over a few drinks. It never hurts to be on drinking terms with a few dealers and pit bosses.

Quote: IWannaBeAP

How doable is it to somewhat accurately throw at least one dice into a 1/4 inch zone to overcome the -EV of the dealer tip and the game itself?

If it's doable, how does one do it?

Surely this is easier than trying to roll snake eyes every roll?
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Build a practice table that approximates the RTW table you have been talking about.
Take lessons from "dice gurus" or self-teach and see how easy your simple idea is to fulfill by practicing
your shot for as long as you need to attain your goal.

It would be far more "doable" to collude with a dealer. But I highly
discourage it since a felony arrest would precede much in the way of riches.

Your Dice AP knowledge is clearly limited. Note that there are hundreds of AP Wannabees that have been
trying for years to accomplish what you are asking here to be described in a soundbite.
They have not succeeded or else the casinos would have already changed the rules, use a cup, etc.

The simple answer is it is "not doable" in the way you describe your AP goal.

I don't understand this at all.
You don't need to be a magician or a dice mechanic to hit the back wall.

And I don't understand this margin before the back wall either. Having dice land within a quarter inch of the back wall is not hitting the back wall.

And I also don't understand how dealer tips impact EV.

There is the Wynn dice sliding case and there is the Bellagio dice hopping case but favorable dealer calls weren't bought for tips... they were bought for huge payoffs as participants in the scams.

While casinos want the both dice to hit the back wall it's good enough if it shows you made an effort to hit the back wall.

In other words as long as you deliberately don't try to throw them short it's okay. Dice can hit the table an inch shy of the back wall and bounce back instead of forwards. And they can hit passline bets blocking the back wall.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I don't understand this at all.
You don't need to be a magician or a dice mechanic to hit the back wall.

And I don't understand this margin before the back wall either. Having dice land within a quarter inch of the back wall is not hitting the back wall.

And I also don't understand how dealer tips impact EV.

There is the Wynn dice sliding case and there is the Bellagio dice hopping case but favorable dealer calls weren't bought for tips... they were bought for huge payoffs as participants in the scams.

While casinos want the both dice to hit the back wall it's good enough if it shows you made an effort to hit the back wall.

In other words as long as you deliberately don't try to throw them short it's okay. Dice can hit the table an inch shy of the back wall and bounce back instead of forwards. And they can hit passline bets blocking the back wall.
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Quote: ChumpChange

Dealers may only give 2 warnings to a player for both dice to hit the back wall, and it is extremely dealer dependent. Some dealers don't really care and others are strict or too strict. It may also have to do with the pit boss watching the game too. I'm a lazy shooter, or a weak shooter, not sure. So I've got to change my usual shooting patterns for the crew at the table. I don't win enough to tip at the table yet. I'd probably tip $1 for every $500 I'm ahead, but that's just me. To insure prompt profits.

If you get a third warning, they may just say pass the dice to the next player immediately, won't even let you shoot for the point. They may keep you from tossing dice for the rest of the night. I don't know if that exclusion carries over to other days at the craps table, but I've seen too many players excluded from throwing the dice locally. It looks like a crimped game when 2-4 players on a full table can't throw the dice. If they do throw, the suits arrive and get verbal, so duh.
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Important context regarding the nature of the table

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/37670-dealer-f-ked-me-and-potential-ap-opportunity/