Skeptic
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:40:37 PM permalink
http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_11d9db10-8434-11e7-a80d-77033e9b2848.html

[Sorry for all the typos and grammatical errors, this is a direct copy/paste from The Advocate. I guess their spellcheck took the day off]

Trio accused of swindling Baton Rouge casino out of $56K; one arrested at New Orleans airport
KAILEY BROUSSARD Aug 18, 2017 - 11:41 am

Louisiana State Police said they arrested the first in a trio of men accused of cheating a Baton Rouge casino out of nearly $56,000 by manipulating dice in a game of "craps," possibly ending a string of casino thefts around the U.S.

Allan Arana, 35, of Las Vegas was arrested Thursday in the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport after being the state police Gaming Division agents were notified that Arana and three other men were kicked out of the Bell of Baton Rouge Casino on Aug. 9 at 103 France St.

Arana allegedly helped Lim Tan, 42, and Jaime Iglesias, 47, cash out a combined total of $55,855 by sliding the dice instead of throwing them. Tan and Iglesias yielded their turns rolling the dice to Arana, which police say allowed him more opportunities to manipulate the dice. The players were able to bet on points on the game board that increased both their odds of winning and a higher-than-normal payout.

The trio is known as the "Arana Group," according to Arana's affidavit. Louisiana State Police identified the men as people of interest in casino-related theft cases around the U.S.

Police are still searching Tan and Iglesias.

Arana was arrested for "dice fraud" during a "craps" game at Magnolia Bluff Casino Aug. 13 Natchez, Mississippi. He was released from the Adams County Jail Aug. 16, according to a press release. Arana was transported to East Baton Rouge Parish the next day and was booked into the East Baton Rouge Parish jail.
Last edited by: Skeptic on Aug 18, 2017
gordonm888
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August 18th, 2017 at 1:56:21 PM permalink
"Sliding the dice instead of throwing them." And this happened over and over again such that they won over $55K?

What were all the croupiers and casino staff at the craps table doing while this was going on? Why didn't someone intervene and say "Sir, that was not a legal throw of the dice, it must turn over in the air when thrown." I suspect that some wide-bottomed croupiers are going to be sliding out that casino's door.
Wizard
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August 18th, 2017 at 2:07:29 PM permalink
The Wynn got taken for a lot, I think seven figures, from an Argentinian dice-sliding team.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
100xOdds
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SanchoPanza
August 18th, 2017 at 5:52:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The Wynn got taken for a lot, I think seven figures, from an Argentinian dice-sliding team.


how the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!

either one of them should have yelled no roll!
don't understand why they didn't???
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
gamerfreak
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SanchoPanza
August 18th, 2017 at 5:56:09 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

how the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!

either one of them should have yelled no roll!
don't understand why they didn't???


This is what I don't understand. When the casino accepts the roll, they are saying they'll book action on that specific roll of the dice. How can that be considered cheating? They didn't swap the dice or anything, right?
Skeptic
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August 18th, 2017 at 6:17:17 PM permalink
That is probably the worst written article I've ever seen in a major newspaper ever. The author's office is maybe three miles from the Belle of Baton Rouge Casino and she still managed to misspell it "Bell". (the misspelling is corrected now in the link but it wasn't when I originally started this thread).

The second paragraph says he was arrested yesterday (Aug 17) at the New Orleans airport yet the final paragraph states that he was arrested on Aug 13 in MS and transported to East Baton Rouge Parish Prison on Aug 14.

So was he released again and then re-apprehended at the airport 60 miles away?

If you could clarify and give us the true story I'd appreciate it. This stuff fascinates me.
Last edited by: Skeptic on Aug 18, 2017
LuckyPhow
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August 18th, 2017 at 6:32:07 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

This is what I don't understand. When the casino accepts the roll, they are saying they'll book action on that specific roll of the dice. How can that be considered cheating? They didn't swap the dice or anything, right?



How can it be considered cheating if the casino accepts the roll, you ask? Hmmm...

Seems I recall a Baccarat game where the casino was happy during the game to let Ivey and Sun win, Win, WIN, and then -- after the game -- said, "Nope, we won't pay because you musta been cheating."

"Everyone knows" shooters cannot influence the dice, right? So, casinos can allow the throws, since they cross the center line (usually with center bumps to deter sliders, right?), and the throws hit the back wall (right?), and the four casino staff at the table verify each roll meets craps-roll requirements (right?)... and, then -- if the players win, or win too much -- casinos know they can have law enforcement arrest the shooters for "cheating."

IMHO, this seems to be the way casinos work these days, because casinos apparently can get away with claims you must be doing something illegal if you win too much of the casino's money.

So, the answer to your question is: Casinos get to be the "decider." If casinos decide later they made the wrong decision during the game, they can later change their minds and decide "differently," in effect changing what was considered a "fair game correctly played" at the time, and making it "cheating" after the fact.
Skeptic
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August 18th, 2017 at 6:42:49 PM permalink
Ooooh, I get it now after the thirtieth re-reading....

Quote:

He was released from the Adams County Jail Aug. 16, according to a press release. Arana was transported to East Baton Rouge Parish the next day and was booked into the East Baton Rouge Parish jail.



He was transferred (driven) from Adams County in MS to the airport in Jackson 120 miles away so they could then fly him to New Orleans. Which is only another 180 miles away. To be arrested again.

That must be the explanation since it's the most wasteful use of resources imaginable.

I still don't get the advantage play at the "craps" table the author tried to describe.
Skeptic
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August 18th, 2017 at 7:15:01 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

"Everyone knows" shooters cannot influence the dice, right? So, casinos can allow the throws, since they cross the center line (usually with center bumps to deter sliders, right?), and the throws hit the back wall (right?), and the four casino staff at the table verify each roll meets craps-roll requirements (right?)... and, then -- if the players win, or win too much -- casinos know they can have law enforcement arrest the shooters for "cheating."


I see where you're going but you're missing a crucial bit: they did get away with it. $56k just that one time. Surely more than once

After hitting the Belle in Baton Rouge it wasn't until three days later that they were caught 500 miles away at another casino. Who knows how long they've been going. Somebody named them the "Arana Group" at some point so this has been working for some time.



Quote:

IMHO, this seems to be the way casinos work these days, because casinos apparently can get away with claims you must be doing something illegal if you win too much of the casino's money.


If by defying mathematical laws of probability then yeah laws are being broken.
Wizard
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August 18th, 2017 at 8:04:42 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

how the hell did the stickman/boxman allow dice to be slide instead of rolled?!



I wasn't there but possibilities include:

1. Someone on the team to distract the dealers. Probably a well-endowed woman in a low cut dress.
2. Very generous tipping.
3. They didn't do this every roll. Craps has a very thin house edge, if played properly, so they could likely afford a lot of legitimate rolls.

I've seen video of dice sliding done well. It is a thing of beauty and might look like a legitimate roll to an amateur.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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