Has anyone ever been backed off for Dice-Setting?

simply curious

I've played with somebody who was warned very firmly to not set the dice. Said person just stomped off in a huff, as he was setting the dice for superstitious reasons only.

i've never seen it.

Beau "Dice Coach" describes how TI backed him off.

TI back off

That is a wacky, wacky story.

Didn't think that could happen, and I've seen some weird stuff.

mel

I rarely play dice but i was told I cannot roll the dice anymore. I was throwing them somewhat high in the air and was told they had to stay within a foot above the table. I didn't listen and was told I can no longer roll

What's crazier is that dicecoach.com has a estimated value of 341.90 I would pay ten cents for it

I saw a guy shooting way too hard and then he faked like he was going to hit the dealers. He wasn't allowed to shoot there-after

My point (no pun intended) was along the lines of 'if dice setting worked then casino's would back off dice shooters'.

Not interested in the debate; perhaps a few individuals can (no way I can --- nerve damage in shoulder from combat sports has hurt my fine motor control in my predominant arm), but I would think that if casinos thought it was a real threat they'd back off a lot more people.

mel

People get told to pass the dice all the time. It's never because they're winning too much, it's because they futz with the dice for 15 seconds, then put them down, rub their hand on the table, blow in their fist, then pick up the dice again and finally throw them. Time is money, and that ceremony before each roll (especially at a crowded table) legitimately hurts the casino's bottom line in terms of revenue per day.

If you need to set the dice because you know it makes a difference to your outcomes, and you haven't learned how to turn them one-handed as you pick them up, you haven't practiced enough. Being backed off if you can't control the dice is no big deal because your throw is just as good (or bad) as anyone else's. But being backed off if you actually can control the dice costs you real profits, so it's just terrible to put yourself in that position by taking too long to set the dice and making the crew upset.

Quite the opposite happens. After my first toss the pit sometimes screams in excitement!

"Oh boy! Can I see that again?"

or

"Did you use superglue?"

Also get warned a lot for not hitting the back wall, erhmm after both dice CLEARLY hit the back wall. They're so picky on how it hits boggles my mind.

Then I stammer and act surprised exclaiming how I'm lining their pockets with my generous 1 dollar passline bets(for the boys) I keep knockin outta the park.

You can never win without some humour.

Quote: MathExtremist

People get told to pass the dice all the time. It's never because they're winning too much, it's because they futz with the dice for 15 seconds, then put them down, rub their hand on the table, blow in their fist, then pick up the dice again and finally throw them. Time is money, and that ceremony before each roll (especially at a crowded table) legitimately hurts the casino's bottom line in terms of revenue per day.

If you need to set the dice because you know it makes a difference to your outcomes, and you haven't learned how to turn them one-handed as you pick them up, you haven't practiced enough. Being backed off if you can't control the dice is no big deal because your throw is just as good (or bad) as anyone else's. But being backed off if you actually can control the dice costs you real profits, so it's just terrible to put yourself in that position by taking too long to set the dice and making the crew upset.

Back during all the hype, before enough research was done including all the slow motion videos. The casinos were just as foolish as everyone else. They did believe a skilled player could influence the dice, especially since a few gambling experts( for instance Wong) during that time, thought it was not only possible, but it was a solid player advantage.

People make mistakes, even the experts, it's not the first time and it won't be the last.

We all know casino management isn't the smartest group of people around. Some of them are even superstitious.

There's still some casino employees who do believe DI possible. Hell, they probably go to other casinos on their weekends and attempt to influence the dice.

Sometimes It's better safe than sorry. Under the right circumstances they can and will back you off if you're winning to much.

Casinos have been known to even back off ploppys who were playing absolute garbage.

Quote: nickolay411

Also get warned a lot for not hitting the back wall, erhmm after both dice CLEARLY hit the back wall. They're so picky on how it hits boggles my mind.

Yes, I've experienced that, and it is irritating.

At least once, pondering about it later, I think what happened is I was running good with my dice-setting [I just sometimes do it for fun with zero evidence it works] and somebody called down to the pit and said "make sure that guy is hitting the back wall". Some lady came out of nowhere and demanded I hit the back wall. Naturally, since I didn't have a single throw that missed the back wall with at least one of the dice, and both dice failing rarely to hit same, it ticked me off. It was later I put 2 and 2 together: that lady had not been there to be observing my throws.

Knowing that later made it gratifying: my secretly awful dice control was running good for a change and scared somebody!

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I rarely play dice but i was told I cannot roll the dice anymore. I was throwing them somewhat high in the air and was told they had to stay within a foot above the table. I didn't listen and was told I can no longer roll

Never heard of a foot above the table and don't understand why they would say that, but I know as a policy places will want players to keep at below eye level so an errant throw doesn't catch someone in the eye.

Could be - I was playing around late at night and throwing them With a really high arc.

I think both are true, some casino's tell people not to set the dice
because they feel it takes up to much time.

Other casino properties are afraid that a dice player can get an
advantage, and much of that is the bluster you see from some
people that suggest they can win a million, or get an SRR of 28
and on and on.

I had one pit manager tell me ( you would know that casino) ' that
'the money on the craps table belongs to the casino, and he would not
allow a person that practices all day on a home table take it even if that
meant the table sets their empty and no on plays".

We have 1 here in Wisconsin that were closed to setting because they
lost a lot to a group of setters one night, we have another that just
closed because they said it takes to long. You know the places in
vegas and Laughlin that hassle you.

Over-all I have to say the treatment is getting better, and I think that
is because most dice setters lose most of the time.

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

We have 1 here in Wisconsin that were closed to setting because they lost a lot to a group of setters one night, we have another that just closed because they said it takes to long.

If those places are closed, then you should have no compunction whatsoever in citing their names.

Quote: dicesitter

We have 1 here in Wisconsin that were closed to setting because...

Can't be Potawatomi in Milwaukee -- they let guys play with all five dice interminably before picking two and shooting. Always surprises me, since they're the only game in town.

Quote: Calder

Can't be Potawatomi in Milwaukee -- they let guys play with all five dice interminably before picking two and shooting. Always surprises me, since they're the only game in town.

Well, supposedly, Ken (mrjjj) is beating they're a$$ess at roulette. EB backs him up.

Quote: dicesitter

Over-all I have to say the treatment is getting better, and I think that
is because most dice setters lose most of the time.

dicesetter

And all dice setters have -EV all the time.


other than the rare occasions where there is something extra happening like free bet offers and whatnot

Quote: AxelWolf

And all dice setters have -EV all the time.


other than the rare occasions where there is something extra happening like free bet offers and whatnot

Anyone ever met a telekinesis dice setter? That is your +EV right there!

Telekedices?

Alan messed up bad because apparently he was within a few feet of someone who was using telekinesis and Alan didn't even realize it. (*See 18 yo's in a row.) The guy was probably a fan of Alan's and was trying to make him some big money. Imagine how flustered he was after the fist 9 yo's in a row and Alan still hadn't gotten the hint to bet it. The telekinesis guy must have been thinking what a____ ___, how many times does 11 have to come up before a normal person wises up. Finally after rolling 18 yo's in a row he gave up.


Also see twilight zone, prime mover episode season 2 episode 21. Ace discovers his friend has
the ability to move objects with his mind. They head to Vegas....

Quote: DMSCR

Anyone ever met a telekinesis dice setter? That is your +EV right there!

If I had telekinesis, going to a casino is nowhere close to the most lucrative endeavor I could choose:

"And it's Kevin Durant with the rebound, quick pass to MathExtremist who lofts up another full-court shot that mysteriously hovers toward the basket and ... it's in again! The Thunder lead the Warriors 150 to 65 on fifty amazing three-point shots by this unknown walk-on..."

"Rory McIlroy and MathExtremist atop the leaderboards going into the weekend but this is really all about second place. MathExtremist has obliterated the PGA recordbooks by shooting 36 consecutive hole-in-ones and has an 84-stroke lead after two rounds..."

or, considering social good is more +EV than money:

"We're live at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon where the FBI has brought in their new consultant, MathExtremist. And now the four remaining armed occupiers are exiting the building, their hands clasped on top of their heads. They appear to be screaming wildly and ... floating toward the FBI checkpoint? Zoom in on that, yes, pan down... their legs are not touching the ground..."

Brilliant, as always.

Sancho


I have no problem, 3 years ago the casino that closed the table for
setting was Keshena, and it remained closed for about a year.

Last deer season which would have been 12th of November I went up to
play at WatersMeet in Michigan and got the dice and the box lady said we
are closed to setting. So I colored up and left.

LIttle over 1 year after they closed the table to setting (Keshena) they changed tables
and again allow you to set the dice. I called the pit boss in Watersmeet when I
got back from hunting ( I know the guy) and he told me they closed the table
for setting because a couple of guys were taking to long to set and we trying to
teach others to set while at the table. In that case I agree 100% with the casino, he
said they were trying to get the mess worked out.

Dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

Sancho
I have no problem, 3 years ago the casino that closed the table for
setting was Keshena, and it remained closed for about a year.

Last deer season which would have been 12th of November I went up to
play at WatersMeet in Michigan and got the dice and the box lady said we
are closed to setting. So I colored up and left.

LIttle over 1 year after they closed the table to setting (Keshena) they changed tables
and again allow you to set the dice. I called the pit boss in Watersmeet when I
got back from hunting ( I know the guy) and he told me they closed the table
for setting because a couple of guys were taking to long to set and we trying to
teach others to set while at the table. In that case I agree 100% with the casino, he
said they were trying to get the mess worked out.
Dicesetter

I've never visited any Western Mich UP Casinos (or even the smaller mid-UP's).

Did spend quite a bit of time at three of the Eastern Mich UP Tribes.
They all have 16-ft tables with very few customers. In fact, one closes off one end of their table on their busiest night (Saturday) to utilize the dealer on a card table. Almost all of these tribal casinos are understaffed on their table games. Their market shares are simply NOT going to improve (because any potential for market gain is non-existent). As a result of the low potential they are simply trying to maximize profit on their existing share. The staff's although generally polite and basically competent would not survive in a larger market. Staff is generally the-best-of-the rest and middle management tends to let them function as they please.
I've seen (even participated) in absurd disputes over policy while the table screeches to a halt because of staff's lack of experience.
EX:
"Hop the individual 7's"
"Sir, We don't have a bet like that, you may play the 'Any seven, it pays the same'"
"No it doesn't pay the same, it's one point higher!" You take hops correct, than I may play any combination of the dice?"
"No sir"
Boxman overrules stickman and says customer is correct and than instruct stickman on where to place the wager.
These casinos don't even open their craps tables until 6 or 7 PM and they close approx 1:AM (sometimes even sooner).

BTW, I've never had any issue setting the dice at these casinos (fortunately I'm not slow at setting and neither am I instructing others), however they are slightly larger than the one at Watersmeet (600 slots), with two being 700 and the other 800.
FWIW, there's multiple tribal casinos in the UP that offer less than 300 slots.
These are all very small markets.

Why wouldn't the staff at Keshena simply apply the policy to the slow-player/setter rather than penalize every player (regardless of speed?)
Hell! They have time at these smaller casinos to use a stop watch on DI'ers that take too long!

Quote: lostinspace

They have time at these smaller casinos to use a stop watch on DI'ers that take too long!

In other words, the reference to barring setting applies to a few out-of-the-way small-time operations. Or as we might say, the minor leagues. There don't seem to be many (or any reports) of banning setting outright in mainline casinos.

Quote: lostinspace

...FWIW, there's multiple tribal casinos in the UP that offer less than 300 slots.
These are all very small markets...

You should've visited Kewadin Manistique before it expanded. 2 bj, 1 Caribbean Stud, 1 LIR and about 50-75 slots. That was it.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You should've visited Kewadin Manistique before it expanded. 2 bj, 1 Caribbean Stud, 1 LIR and about 50-75 slots. That was it.

Hope I never get that desperate ;)

Mackinaw City is opening with less than 75-slots and zero table games.

Quote: SanchoPanza

In other words, the reference to barring setting applies to a few out-of-the-way small-time operations. Or as we might say, the minor leagues. There don't seem to be many (or any reports) of banning setting outright in mainline casinos.

Likely, and in most instances.
I've seen dice-setters are larger casinos (non-Vegas) take what seems to me an absurd amount of time, whilst staff humbly stands-by close-mouthed.

Quote: MathExtremist

If I had telekinesis, going to a casino is nowhere close to the most lucrative endeavor I could choose:

"And it's Kevin Durant with the rebound, quick pass to MathExtremist who lofts up another full-court shot that mysteriously hovers toward the basket and ... it's in again! The Thunder lead the Warriors 150 to 65 on fifty amazing three-point shots by this unknown walk-on..."

"Rory McIlroy and MathExtremist atop the leaderboards going into the weekend but this is really all about second place. MathExtremist has obliterated the PGA recordbooks by shooting 36 consecutive hole-in-ones and has an 84-stroke lead after two rounds..."

or, considering social good is more +EV than money:

"We're live at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon where the FBI has brought in their new consultant, MathExtremist. And now the four remaining armed occupiers are exiting the building, their hands clasped on top of their heads. They appear to be screaming wildly and ... floating toward the FBI checkpoint? Zoom in on that, yes, pan down... their legs are not touching the ground..."

I beg to differ. VEGAS is the right choice. Even if you collected on 18 yos in a row, nobody would believe it happened. If you think I am wrong about that, just ask Alan

Quote: lostinspace

Hope I never get that desperate ;)

Mackinaw City is opening with less than 75-slots and zero table games.

There isn't a casino in Mackinaw City. If you meant St. Ignace, they had table games.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

There isn't a casino in Mackinaw City. If you meant St. Ignace, they had table games.

It was recently approved. To be located at the old Water Park on the south end of town.
The property has been owned by Odowa for some time.

"Class II" I'll pass.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

"Class II" I'll pass.

Ditto. It'll be worse than Mainstee ;)

Many folks would like to see the one at Vanderbilt (although it was small) reopened. They finally won in the Federal courts, however the state will never allow it. Been some while absent any hint of Vanderbilt news. Any business would enhance that city.