True test of your SRR
Despite the fact that many journalists have gone to prison for no crime. They were just protecting their sources.Quote: AlanMendelsonCan't trust the media, eh?
And none of them ever got married at tableside.
Quote: SanchoPanza...And none of them ever got married at tableside.
The most negative EV bet at craps!
This guy is so good that he can beat those odds, too. And he doesn't really need DI.Quote: IbeatyouracesThe most negative EV bet at craps!
I sure as hell don't know for sure whether there was a Captain or not, my guess is there was some one like that
at some point... to quote the smartest women in the world " what difference does it now make "
I know you have seen Frank and Dom shoot as have I, but none of that stuff matters anyway. The truth of the
matter is that this term DI has been bantered about so much, defined so many different ways that God himself
could not tell you what it means.
I am sure you recall the piece called "breaking Vegas" which talked about Frank and Dom and all the money
they made and that they were "not" gamblers, they were "advantage players". That clip went on to talk about
Dom's 45 minute ( $27000 win) roll which made him a legend in the dice community.
Two things, first we have all had 45 minutes rolls, that is not uncommon, and if we happened to have enough
money to bet large, $27,000 is not again that much.
Any player with some effort can learn to hit the same spot on the table, control to some extent the amount
the dice bounce after they hit the table. Any player can learn to see if a different landing spot will produce
a different result. You learn those couple of things and you will also have some long rolls just like Dom
did.. Wont make you a DI.
Most of these guys talk about DI in the sense that they say ok take me to the table and throw an 8, or show me
you can have an SRR of 10 .....you and I both know this is folly.. however having said that if you take a person
that has worked on his or her throw and is consistent and place them on a table that is much like their practice
table, they will beat the odds .
This does not and never will make them a DI
Here we now spend more time trying to find and play at tables which give us the best chance to be productive
than we do trying to show we are good enough to beat any table, because we don't think that is possible. We
sure as hell cant do it.
dicesetter
Quote: bloodoilAND yet the casino wastes its time barring blackjack players, while DI's go unnoticed. What a shame. Such poor security measures.
Let's assume DI/DC has been proven and does work. Who will stand out more to the crew and surveillance? Card counters or DI's/DC's?
Who in the heck told you a DI or some one that sets the dice and throws consistently
goes unnoticed??????
dicesetter
Yes casinos notice. Only this forum has extreme doubts about DI.
Why is that?
Quote: IbeatyouracesHit the wall like you're supposed to with BOTH dice and those incidents probably never happen.
When I was banned at NYNY not only were both dice hitting the back wall but they were bouncing all over the place. They banned me because I set and got lucky. And before you say it, I will -- I set fast and did not delay the game except when they had to pay and pay and pay.
Quote: AlanMendelsonWhen I was banned at NYNY not only were both dice hitting the back wall but they were bouncing all over the place. They banned me because I set and got lucky. And before you say it, I will -- I set fast and did not delay the game except when they had to pay and pay and pay.
Casinos kick out lucky bj players that aren't counters or others too that get on a good streak. As been noted before, they're just as superstitious as players sometimes.
Quote: IbeatyouracesCasinos kick out lucky bj players that aren't counters or others too that get on a good streak. As been noted before, they're just as superstitious as players sometimes.
True. But in my case the dealers and box man said they didn't allow dice setters.
Quote:Yes casinos notice. Only this forum has extreme doubts about DI. Why is that?
Your question is rhetorical, therefore I see no sense in answering.
Were you in earnest in your quest for The Gambling Truth, I'd clue you in.
It is hard to answer a statement that is accurate is it not.
This site contains the most anti DI or dice setting crowd on
the net.
In truth this really makes no sense when everyone agrees there
is no way to bet and get an advantage.
I guess it makes more sense to continue to discuss useless material
day after day rather than discuss something that (may) be possible
and actually make a difference.
But then again I guess that is human nature, people who cant or wont
always pick at those that can and do.
dicesetter
You and I have been battling over DI longer than my three marriages combined.
Can you get a document signed by some casino exec that you were banned on such and such a night for taking the tables winnings?
I don't doubt that he was told to leave, especially if they told him not to set the dice and he kept doing it. Imagine how long you'd last at a 6-deck blackjack table if you kept touching the cards.Quote: rxwineWait, rather than proving DI, prove the "back off" claim for dice setting specially that you might be winning too much. That's easier.
Can you get a document signed by some casino exec that you were banned on such and such a night for taking the tables winnings?
Quote: dicesitterMrv It is hard to answer a statement that is accurate is it not.
The statement is NOT accurate.
This board isn't one place in the world that has the most "extreme doubts about DI."
While I haven't checked his board for awhile, Wong quickly soured to the notion of DI leading to real AP, and that rubbed off on his board members.
I'd be willing to bet that most craps dealers, or at least the ones who've dealt the game for many years, have extreme doubts about DI as well.
There are many who have read up on DI, perhaps even paid for books, courses and seminars, only to realize it makes no difference what one does: we're all just random rollers.
The world itself has extreme doubts about DI.
Quote: MrV
There are many who have read up on DI, perhaps even paid for books, courses and seminars, only to realize it makes no difference what one does: we're all just random rollers.
I absolutely agree. I think there are very few who can really master this. I've seen three players and only three and the guys teaching the courses and writing the books are not among those three. I am not among those three.
But it doesn't hurt to try.
By the way, next time you're at a craps table, check the number of players who set their dice. They might just heave them down the table, but see if they set their dice. Then ask yourself why?
Quote: AlanMendelson
By the way, next time you're at a craps table, check the number of players who set their dice. They might just heave them down the table, but see if they set their dice. Then ask yourself why?
1.) Pascal's Wager
2.) Looks Cool.
3.) People Might Talk About You
---Let me elaborate, I set the dice and as soon as I have a losing decision in which I established a point, I'm done, unless I am a good measure ahead. Anyway, if I go on a monster roll, then that is the first roll that anyone at that table saw me have, probably, but certainly that day. Anyway, people remember stuff like that and next time they see you come up to the table, sometimes they say, "Hey, this guy can really shoot the dice!"
Take The Meadows one day, specifically February 24th, 2015 when I strolled up to the Craps Table at about 2:00a.m. and had a thirty roll hand and hit a four-point Fire Bet. Guy passes the dice back to me, wants me to shoot again. I hit a six-point Fire Bet on my very next hand. I walk away from the table like nothing happened after finally sevening out...which took awhile, because I proceeded to make two more points AFTER hitting the six-point Fire Bet.
In fact, I only made one duplicate point before the six-point was accomplished and I'm sure I did it in under thirty rolls. It almost had the appearance of being methodical. Setting, hitting the same spot on the table, same action after contact, roughly. And then still Made two different points after. I'm fairly convinced you'd think me a DI had you seen me that day. I'm not.
Do you think that guy still tells people about that? That I know of, it's the only time he has ever seen me in his life, and certainly the only time he has ever seen me shoot Craps. I think he'll still be talking about me hitting that six-pointer for him ten years from now. That's pretty cool, in a way, I think.
Maybe eighty total rolls, thirteen total points made, two seven-outs.
Hell, I even cover for myself...lol...When I do lose and I've established a point and decide to quit playing, after just a few rolls, I say, "I guess I just don't have it today."
But, it's all a show and it's just for fun. I really just want people to have a good time and having something fun to talk about is always nice. I always enjoy talking about improbable stuff I've witnessed other people do or have had happen to them.
I do something like that on almost every game. I really can't stand losing, so let's say I am playing Blackjack recreationally, if I lose my first hand, then I quit playing, TeddyS as my witness. Machines don't bother me so much, but I really can't stand to be seen losing on Table Games...lol
That was a nice try, but it was not accurate, and the idea that all the people on the craps
crew think it is nonsense is itself nonsense.
I know a good number of them that would differ with that statement..
But again, I am not preaching dice control because that cant be done, having some
influence under the right conditions is a certainty.
The term DI as indicated as it is used in craps is useless, it is supposed to mean advantage
player, not I go to the table and win every time or Franks statement that him and Dom
are advantage players like big eaters at a buffet.
For my part I think there are a good many advantage players, and for me that means
do all you can to give yourself the best chance. Surely a guy that plays sober and makes
the best bets has a better chance to survive in a casino than does a drunk that hits
a 16 against a 20 in BJ.
No sir what makes this site anti craps is stuff like the Axelwolf comment about the
video I put up showing that the dice delivery
can be consistent and limit the bounce after the dice hit the table , one day saying
it showed exactly what I said it would show and then the next day indicate it was not
at all impressive to Alan.
I did not put it up there to impress anyone, I wanted to show something different that
was possible and if your not anti something you wonder ok what else is possible
not well it does not make any difference anyway.
I don't need the approval of anyone, as Alan indicated you have been discussing DI
for longer than his 3 marriages, I have been playing for 41 years.
This site is against the idea that some form of dice influence is impossible, because the
folks that post the most cant do it, and to be fair there are other sites that preach dice
control to point that they appear to say complete control is possible.
The truth is some where in between, at least for me it has been.
dicesetter
Quote:This site is against the idea that some form of dice influence is impossible, because the
folks that post the most cant do it, and to be fair there are other sites that preach dice
control to point that they appear to say complete control is possible. The truth is some where in between, at least for me it has been.
I am glad you've found a Gambling Truth out there located somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea.
It is correct to say that I and others on this site "can't do it," but that is because, conceptually anyway, true DI is impossible to pull off with such regularity so as to make a statistical difference.
Alan says he's seen three guys rolling dem bones who seemed to be the Real Deal: I think I may have seen one DI in action, but that could have just been a guy with a smooth roll and a bit of luck.
I bought and read Sharpshooter's book long ago, and read up on dice setting / dice control / dice influencing at other gambling boards, but decided not to try to develop "skill" via dice setting and regular practice as I think it is a waste of time and doomed to fail, just as I don't jump out of windows and flap my arms hoping to fly.
We all have opinions about things, ideally opinions based on some measure of real experience and analysis, and it is my opinion that DI is false hope.
But yes, many folks set the dice: many folks think it can work, because Frank and other advocates tell them so.
Bleat on, little sheep: bleat on.
If you can't influence dice or don't even try that's fine. Play your way.
I would prefer to play craps with shooters who at least try to hit numbers that will pay.
Playing with shooters who don't try is the same as playing a slot machine.
Excellent reply,
dicesetter
Quote:Please. I would prefer to play craps with shooters who at least try to hit numbers that will pay. Playing with shooters who don't try is the same as playing a slot machine.
Oh, I "try" to hit favorable numbers, at least I "hope" they hit.
But unlike you I've no long-standing delusion that I or others can / will demonstrably affect the outcome via conscious will or effort.
Playing with shooters who set the dice is the same as when I was a child and saw my mom put out milk and cookies for Santa and a carrot for Rudolph as I laid down to sleep with visions of sugarplums dancing in my head.
Damm it. I said HE wouldn't be all that impressed according to his description of what a real DI shot would look like and the real DI's he has claimed to have shoot with.Quote: dicesitterMrV
That was a nice try, but it was not accurate, and the idea that all the people on the craps
crew think it is nonsense is itself nonsense.
I know a good number of them that would differ with that statement..
But again, I am not preaching dice control because that cant be done, having some
influence under the right conditions is a certainty.
The term DI as indicated as it is used in craps is useless, it is supposed to mean advantage
player, not I go to the table and win every time or Franks statement that him and Dom
are advantage players like big eaters at a buffet.
For my part I think there are a good many advantage players, and for me that means
do all you can to give yourself the best chance. Surely a guy that plays sober and makes
the best bets has a better chance to survive in a casino than does a drunk that hits
a 16 against a 20 in BJ.
No sir what makes this site anti craps is stuff like the Axelwolf comment about the
video I put up showing that the dice delivery
can be consistent and limit the bounce after the dice hit the table , one day saying
it showed exactly what I said it would show and then the next day indicate it was not
at all impressive to Alan.
I did not put it up there to impress anyone, I wanted to show something different that
was possible and if your not anti something you wonder ok what else is possible
not well it does not make any difference anyway.
I don't need the approval of anyone, as Alan indicated you have been discussing DI
for longer than his 3 marriages, I have been playing for 41 years.
This site is against the idea that some form of dice influence is impossible, because the
folks that post the most cant do it, and to be fair there are other sites that preach dice
control to point that they appear to say complete control is possible.
The truth is some where in between, at least for me it has been.
dicesetter
IE a guy that can make the dice hit the wall and remain within millimeters each time with no bouncing. Perhaps they can rest the dice on the wall and the table often.
I DID FIND YOUR VIDEO IMPRESSIVE, especially compared to most people who claim to be DI's. I like how you didn't just show a few "good shots", you kept shooting and were very consistent, the dice didn't bounce around as much as most other DI shots I have seen.
Please don't think I was trying to be like that.
I do respect the time an effort you have put in. I just don't think anyone can make money from DI.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThere is no private gaming in Nevada. Nevada is an "open gaming" state meaning that any slob of the street can walk into a casino -- even a high limit room -- and watch.
I believe that law was amended several years ago to allow for private gaming rooms. The Venetian and Wynn both have them. They are pretty much opened only for the biggest of whales and by prior arrangement.
Quote: WizardI believe that law was amended several years ago to allow for private gaming rooms. The Venetian and Wynn both have them. They are pretty much opened only for the biggest of whales and by prior arrangement.
This is true, and it is also true that they wouldn't let me in when I tried very hard to get in.
In order for this to be legal, however, it is a separate business entity that runs those operations. IE: there is some separation between the gambling on the main floor and in these special rooms.
At the Palazzo, the Piaza room on the top floor, when I went up there, the whole floor smelled very good.
I really wanted to see what was going on with that "high limit" room.
I was told I had to be invited by an existing member (if you are one, please invite me) or by my host.
I just really want to go and watch, honestly. They said $5,000 is a small bet in this room.
I had $5,000 on me at the time (visible in chips), but not for one bet.
I told them I just wanted to see the room as part of my research into high limit gaming rooms in town (for work).
Quote: IbeatyouracesSo is playing with someone "trying" to hit numbers. I've got news for you, the dice ARE the RNG.
I hate to inform you of this but dice are not an RNG. Nor is the table. The shooter is the RNG. I would prefer to play with a shooter who attempts to hit numbers that pay.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI hate to inform you of this but dice are not an RNG. Nor is the table. The shooter is the RNG. I would prefer to play with a shooter who attempts to hit numbers that pay.
Keep thinking that and you'll be invited to casinos all your life.
Quote: WizardI believe that law was amended several years ago to allow for private gaming rooms. The Venetian and Wynn both have them. They are pretty much opened only for the biggest of whales and by prior arrangement.
I did a search for an amendment and didn't find one. Can you post a link?
I also asked about this at Caesars and was told by floor people (not high level managers) that all gaming is open to the public.
If the law was changed I would be interested in seeing it. Thanks.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI did a search for an amendment and didn't find one. Can you post a link?
I also asked about this at Caesars and was told by floor people (not high level managers) that all gaming is open to the public.
If the law was changed I would be interested in seeing it. Thanks.
Here is a link to a LV Sun article from a few years ago on the topic. The NGC approved the "private" part of the deal because high resolution cameras were feeding pictures directly from the private tables to NGC monitors.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI hate to inform you of this but dice are not an RNG. Nor is the table. The shooter is the RNG. I would prefer to play with a shooter who attempts to hit numbers that pay.
Oh please, you are splitting hairs.
The shooter shoots the dice; the two are intertwined and cannot be separated when it comes to determining outcomes.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI did a search for an amendment and didn't find one. Can you post a link?
I also asked about this at Caesars and was told by floor people (not high level managers) that all gaming is open to the public.
If the law was changed I would be interested in seeing it. Thanks.
I don't feel like looking up the regs right now, but this is a post I made earlier in this thread.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/dice-setting/23597-true-test-of-your-srr/14/#post489809
Thanks for your reply.
I understand your point of view in terms of making money just because you call yourself a DI.
As you know I feel the same way, DI's are the best thing to ever happen to a casino......but!!
That is not what my efforts have been about. There are some very good players that have spent
years trying to determine what could happen if you limit the bounce after the dice hit the table
and if you limit the effect of the alligator board.
I think I have shown that is possible....
You couple that with a basic understanding of how dice function, the number of potential
out comes you can have, the fact that there are only 6 axial arrays in which to get them
and that 3 of them give you a 50% better chance to avoid a 7, now you are getting
somewhere.
Axel... as Dorothy said..... you understand this and your not in Kansas anymore.
Dicesetter
You write that the point of DI is not to make money, you say "that is not what my efforts have been about."
So, what then has been the point of your efforts?
Really, WGAS about DI unless it can lead to gaining a demonstrative edge at casino craps?
Quote: MrV*scratches head*
You write that the point of DI is not to make money, you say "that is not what my efforts have been about."
So, what then has been the point of your efforts?
Really, WGAS about DI unless it can lead to gaining a demonstrative edge at casino craps?
I think we've just witnessed the birth of non-AP dice influencing. Spending hours (or months) practicing a dice throwing technique on a home craps table just so you can have your dice bounce less -- but without any expectation of (or progress toward) an altered outcome distribution from that lack of bouncing -- seems like a complete waste of time.
Quote: MathExtremistI think we've just witnessed the birth of non-AP dice influencing. Spending hours (or months) practicing a dice throwing technique on a home craps table just so you can have your dice bounce less -- but without any expectation of (or progress toward) an altered outcome distribution from that lack of bouncing -- seems like a complete waste of time.
The appearance of control can generate an advantage from tips handed in from players at much higher bet levels that you.
This does work and I can teach people how to do this if you have no pride to stand in your way.
I have received less than $1,000 in tips from other players, but not far off. Enough for a long time of playing at smaller bet levels!
One time I received a purple chip just for PASSING the dice! I was betting the don't and randomly flinging the dice at that time, however. So he didn't give me the purple chip for my throwing, but for my choice to let HIM throw. He had almost won the ATS for $100 each, and on the second run he did it. $24,000+ in wins, and threw me a purple.
Anyway, if you do take player tips, you just become a social leper. It's not something that I would advise, but it does work if you are good with your social skills.
The hardest thing to deal with is irate dealers who don't like players getting money from (random) other players.
When we played at the SLS I believe that player who we thought was Phil Ivey's brother made a $25 hardway bet for you. You didn't hit it.Quote: AhighThe appearance of control can generate an advantage from tips handed in from players at much higher bet levels that you.
This does work and I can teach people how to do this if you have no pride to stand in your way.
I have received less than $1,000 in tips from other players, but not far off. Enough for a long time of playing at smaller bet levels!
One time I received a purple chip just for PASSING the dice! I was betting the don't and randomly flinging the dice at that time, however. So he didn't give me the purple chip for my throwing, but for my choice to let HIM throw. He had almost won the ATS for $100 each, and on the second run he did it. $24,000+ in wins, and threw me a purple.
Anyway, if you do take player tips, you just become a social leper. It's not something that I would advise, but it does work if you are good with your social skills.
The hardest thing to deal with is irate dealers who don't like players getting money from (random) other players.
Quote: teddysWhen we played at the SLS I believe that player who we thought was Phil Ivey's brother made a $25 hardway bet for you. You didn't hit it.
Good sample point. And you might confirm, social skills very important to keep everyone happy in a situation like this.
But I was absolutely demonstrating an ability to shoot the dice where you could at least see results up until the dice landed in terms of my ability to shoot.
And along those lines, I will tell you that I can shoot with precision better than any robot I've ever seen attempt to be precise.
It's just that I don't KNOW that it MATTERS.
It might though.
"But I was absolutely demonstrating an ability to shoot the dice where you could at least see results up until the dice landed in terms of my ability to shoot."
Did you indicate to the players that were tipping you that what happens after the dice hit the table does not matter?????
dicesetter
But that's trivial. Anyone can throw the dice and have them fly through the air with the same numbers on the axis -- just put some backspin on them (like a yo-yo) when you throw them. The trick would be getting them to roll on that axis rather than bounce sideways when they hit the table. I've never seen anyone do that consistently.Quote: AhighBut I was absolutely demonstrating an ability to shoot the dice where you could at least see results up until the dice landed in terms of my ability to shoot.
Quote: MathExtremistBut that's trivial. Anyone can throw the dice and have them fly through the air with the same numbers on the axis -- just put some backspin on them (like a yo-yo) when you throw them. The trick would be getting them to roll on that axis rather than bounce sideways when they hit the table. I've never seen anyone do that consistently.
I think you misunderstood.
We still have not shot dice together you know.
Teddy and I always have fun. Your from the city, right? I think you'd fit right in with our antics at the table.
I haven't gambled in two weeks and the last time I did, believe it or not, it was more of obligation than interest.
I am not sure yet what's going on, but my interests in gambling myself has waned quite a bit in the last few weeks.
I'd certainly do a four-figure buy-in to gamble with you though. Which could mean trouble, but who knows?
Quote: Pinit2winitI believe you missed my post ahigh but you're correct about the tips. Someone bet 100 hi lo and I threw a 2 followed by 12. He walked out with 6400 and I had a 200 tip. I would've tipped more myself but I was appreciative.
As the dealers will tell anybody who makes a habit of this, "hustlin' tips is for the dealers exclusively."
You can't be obvious without being uncouth.
But it would be WAY easier to AP this way than anything to do with statistics and chi-squared.
