AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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September 17th, 2015 at 6:39:50 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Do you get many "dead cat bounces" when you shoot precisely, and if so, does it ever seem to matter?



If a casino were to follow the strict interpretation of a legal throw in Nevada, a dead cat bounce would not be a legal throw.

The Nevada Gaming Commission is on the record saying a legal throw is this:

1. Dice must travel in the air (yes a dead cat bounce does this)
2. Dice must hit the table surface at least once (yes a dead cat bounce does this)
3. Dice must hit the back wall (does a dead cat bounce do this?)

and a stacked shot where the top dice stops the bottom die from rolling is also not a legal throw.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 17th, 2015 at 7:39:26 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

If a casino were to follow the strict interpretation of a legal throw in Nevada, a dead cat bounce would not be a legal throw.

The Nevada Gaming Commission is on the record saying a legal throw is this:

1. Dice must travel in the air (yes a dead cat bounce does this)
2. Dice must hit the table surface at least once (yes a dead cat bounce does this)
3. Dice must hit the back wall (does a dead cat bounce do this?)

and a stacked shot where the top dice stops the bottom die from rolling is also not a legal throw.



I have not, even one single time, seen a single other person besides myself pull off the stacked shot.

This is a shot that does get people's attention no matter if one die stop dead or not. When they both travel through the air like they are stuck together like glue, it's different. And if you threw this way every single time, no matter how they bounce after landing (I argue the outcome is very random) they aren't going to like it just because it's so freaking weird to look at.

All of these shots, though, and I can deliver them are just cool to look at. The only value would be if you wanted to use the APPEARANCE that you know what you're doing to encourage some big gambler to tip you.

The biggest tip I have ever received from a player was $500 and that was for PASSING the dice, not shooting them! (He won all-tall for 100 each at Cosmo - $24,600 payout).
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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September 17th, 2015 at 7:58:35 PM permalink
I used the stack shot at Rio. No one said a word perhaps because it wasn't "perfect." Meaning: it hit random numbers. It just avoided the 7 and that was good enough.

If you announce you are going to hit the hard 8 and you use a stack shot to hit the hard 8 you are going to have trouble.

If you line up your stack shot properly using the hardways set but you are hitting different number combinations who is to say it isn't anything but a random shot?

At the Rio I was expecting someone to tell me that both dice must hit the back wall but no one said anything to me, perhaps because I threw my stacked shot to the corner where one die was on the bottom at the wall, and the top die bounced off the wall. That might appear as "close enough."

So to recount the motions of the dice:

Die A hits the table at the back wall.
Die B on top of Die A hits the wall and bounces off onto the table.

That differs from the NGC definition.

Meanwhile, at Caesars Palace they don't care if your dice hit the back wall -- just so that they get close to the back wall.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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September 22nd, 2015 at 2:13:14 AM permalink
I've not seen many demonstrate this shot on video (actually can't think of any at all).

Maybe I will if I can't find a good demo.

I can do a good stack shot.

I might see how many clean stack shots in a row I can do.

When I first started a stack shot was, like dealers trying to drop a chip and have it bounce up on top of their stack, a very remote chance to get it to work.

I think I might be able to do four in a row these days in less than 15 minutes. But I don't know my hit/miss rate as I haven't really done any stats.

Just getting them to stick together is not that easy.
MrV
MrV
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September 22nd, 2015 at 8:31:55 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Just getting them to stick together is not that easy.



Not that I would recommend it, but hypothetically if you have a cool beverage with condensation on the side, or a glass of water with you at the table, you could get a finger or two wet, and then pick up the dice and dampen them, then stick them together for the throw.

Never tried it, never will, but I would guess the water might promote them sticking together a bit, and it would be invisible and evaporate very quickly (adios, incriminating evidence).

Ever hear of anyone trying this, or getting caught for "cheating" (it would be cheating) for doing this?
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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September 22nd, 2015 at 8:37:21 AM permalink
I dont think you have to get them to stick together. The whole concept of the stacked shot is that you are limiting the motion of the dice. You are throwing them together, without any intended rotation, and you are aiming for one spot on the table against a wall hoping to trap the bottom die against the wall and under the top die.

I never did a video of it -- unlike my dice sliding video which is on YouTube.

I really didn't practice it much at home (I throw on a bed) but I just found that I could throw the dice together using a soft throw. It's the soft throw that helps limit rotation. You have to be next to the stick and you can't do it on a long table.
lostinspace
lostinspace
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October 7th, 2015 at 7:57:35 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Here is one man's explanation and analysis of the so-called DCB .

It seems to me that were one in fact able to influence the dice, this shot, properly executed, would have the greatest chance of providing an advantage.



There is some confusing (even conflicting) terminology in the 'Four Forces'!
Forward Speed and Rotational Speed.

The majority of shooters use reverse-motion in their throws. (the same website has a page on adding forward-motion with a reverse-motion throw, however the author doesn't call it same).

How is a shooter able to control reverse motion, while the motion is taking pace just as the bounce occurs?
The likelihood of short throws (and seven-outs) is less-controllable with reverse motion.
All the other terms/descriptions are secondary to the effect of reversing the direction of the dice in mid-air (and as they hit the table).
dicesitter
dicesitter
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November 5th, 2015 at 8:49:32 AM permalink
Alan




The key is to limit the bounce after they hit the table, and also to limit the
effect of the alligator board.

There are shots which take away the back wall affect and their are shots which
limit the bounce after the hit the table, the problem is to have a shot that can
do both.

I have worked with the stack at home for hours and hours, but it is not even close
to being as effective as a couple of other shots are in terms of repeating
certain numbers or extending the SRR. But it does look cool.

dicesetter
badboynaz
badboynaz
Joined: Nov 25, 2015
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November 25th, 2015 at 1:03:02 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Here is one man's explanation and analysis of the so-called DCB .

It seems to me that were one in fact able to influence the dice, this shot, properly executed, would have the greatest chance of providing an advantage.




I personally can do this about 50% of the time or better, and you are correct. This is the best way to influence the dice. The secret to this is to find a table where they installed the rubber diamonds upside down so the flat part is at the bottom instead of the top of the table. One table that I know is that way off the top of my head is Harrah's Laughlin. I throw the dice very softly to limit forward momentum with a lot of back spin. Unlike the GTC method I use a much lower angle, more like 30 to 35 degrees. And I look to land the dice about a half inch in front of the wall instead of at the pass line like most people do. the dice will make about a half a revolution touch the back wall and die. It's not easy. It's taken me about three years to kind of half way perfect it. If your dice are splattering all over the place it's a random roll no matter how you throw them. The way I throw is more wrist and less elbow than most people do.
billionaireben
billionaireben
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July 18th, 2016 at 10:55:15 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Not that I would recommend it, but hypothetically if you have a cool beverage with condensation on the side, or a glass of water with you at the table, you could get a finger or two wet, and then pick up the dice and dampen them, then stick them together for the throw.

Never tried it, never will, but I would guess the water might promote them sticking together a bit, and it would be invisible and evaporate very quickly (adios, incriminating evidence).

Ever hear of anyone trying this, or getting caught for "cheating" (it would be cheating) for doing this?



swim up craps . . .

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