Can Any One Really Control The Dice?
Think about what I just wrote before you respond. When we look at what everybody calls Dice Control, is it possible, or is it something that just happens when the shooter is just getting lucky?
Is there any reason for the casinos to worry about Dice Control?
So for all you math guys out there how about what you think happens when one of these so-called DI's get on a good roll, Just how far are they off the math of the game for any giving roll they have. Lets start at 10 rolls of the dice, then bump it up ever ten rolls of the dice.
By now most of you have seen all of the slow-motion videos that I have posted, if not here they are once again. The slow-motion videos are the most damning evidence we have against dice control.
Now I always have to ask this question and it's directed at the so-called DI's out there. Is there anybody you know in these videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o...amp;list=UUUJo96xngJwaqh8rIk2whng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u...p;index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1FO4YsUA30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiptZZotMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u...p;index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u...p;index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E...amp;list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H...amp;list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R...amp;list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di...amp;list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G...YUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc
This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work! Just page down on the right side to see all of the videos he found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5...L57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU
Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/dice-setting/21522-surrenders-futile-experiments-in-dice-influence/
A while back i was playing around with dice. Then I had a second kid and haven't had time and lost interest. Here's my top secret tip to winning at craps, FREE of charge!
Instead of setting the dice and getting them to move as little as possible, (an object at rest stays at rest until acted upon), I was setting the dice and putting as much spin as possible using a flick of my wrist(an object in motion stays in motion...). The concept is that the alligator wall effectively can randomize non spinning dice, however if two dice are both spinning on the same axis, it would be less likely to hit either of those two numbers.
So if I set the dice with the 3's and 4's touching, and threw them with backspin, the hope is that i would get significantly less 3's and 4's, which would make the field bet profitable, among other things. Someone else can try it, and perhaps consider buying me dinner if you make millions.
I'm skeptical even if you don't have to hit the back wall.Quote: champ724its not possible to control dice if you have to hit the back wall. once the dice hit the diamond nubs its all random and luck from there. anyone who says they can control the dice is just crying wolf.
Quote: superrickBy now most of you have seen all of the slow-motion videos that I have posted, if not here they are once again.
Thanks.
Quote:The truly ironic thing about this is that I happen to know a PhD physicist who is also a former craps dealer. He hasn’t read this, but I’ve spoken about it with him, and he assured me that the pip densities are sufficiently carefully controlled to defeat any sort of stability-oriented “attack” such as this. Not that I was actually going to try the experiment…
From http://blog.eqnets.com/2009/08/24/dynamical-bias-in-the-dice-roll/
Also
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/21764-craps-dice-unbalance-mystery-dice-physical-data/35/#post462016:
Quote: Kapitaniak paperThe structure of the boundaries between the basins of different faces is worth investigating. If in any neighborhood of the initial condition leading to one of Fi, there are initial conditions which are mapped to other faces (in the case of the coin in the neighborhood of any point leading to the heads there are points leading to the tail result), i.e., infinitely small inaccuracy in the initial conditions makes the result of the die throw unpredictable.
Quote: WizardPut me firmly in the skeptics column. I've been asking for 11 years to see legitimate evidence that anybody can influence the dice enough to overcome the house edge. I'm still waiting.
Quote: AxelWolfI have asked Dicesitter and other (probably even you Ahigh) this question multiple times. They just start claiming real DI's don't want to come out.
Say what? Does this statement mean that they don't want to win on a come out roll when the probability of winning is at its highest compared to any point that can be established? If I was a right bettor, I'd rather win even money consistently on a come out rather than risk making a point with odds where the probability of the 7 appearing are higher, especially if I could influence the 7 to appear more often.
I think he means that if there are real DI's they are afraid to show their hairy @$$ in view of the public. As in coming out of the house.
They can stay in the closet a lot more comfortably now that much of that space has been vacated.Quote: AhighI think he means that if there are real DI's they are afraid to show their hairy @$$ in view of the public. As in coming out of the house.
Quote: surrender88sI believe it is possible.
...
So if I set the dice with the 3's and 4's touching, and threw them with backspin, the hope is that i would get significantly less 3's and 4's, which would make the field bet profitable, among other things. Someone else can try it, and perhaps consider buying me dinner if you make millions.
I'm not greedy. I'll let you make the millions and consider treating me to dinner at Bacchanal.
Does anyone remember the android from "The Questor Tapes"? He actually did the same thing many years earlier (not surprising since it was also a Gene Rodenberry production. The show had Dean Wormer from Animal House and B.J. Hunnicutt from M.A.S.H:
There's no magic. The dice and table are physical objects with knowable properties. What we call "random" is actually just very, very, very hard to measure and control. Note that very^3 hard to measure is not the same as impossible. Given continuing advances in bionics, I can see the day coming when Craps will go the way of Faro because so many people will be able to neutralize the randomizing elements of the table with extreme precision in their throws.
Can someone control dice today? I haven't seen it. Is influence possible today? I like to believe it is. It gives me something to "shoot" for.
Is it "possible" to control/influence the dice--well, a lot of things that were seemingly impossible years ago are being done now. It may be "possible" but there is absolutely no proof of anyone influencing/controlling the dice enough to change the random outcome of the game at this point. None. Zero. The books that talk about it tell stories, but I could tell a story, too.
Could it "ever" happen? As stated above, it "could". I just don't think it will.
Quote: AyecarumbaPossible? Yes. I saw it on television (so it must be true...hehe)
I can't believe Data notices the dice are unbalanced LOL
Telekinesis dice control is just as possible. Just practice that you'll have the same results as DI, 7 years of losing. But once you learn to do it, your set. http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhzYzrDnq1yqYfxmJaQuote: RonCIf there were any folks that could control the dice enough to influence the outcome of the game (win a lot), you'd think this community would know of them. We have people playing all over the country...
Is it "possible" to control/influence the dice--well, a lot of things that were seemingly impossible years ago are being done now. It may be "possible" but there is absolutely no proof of anyone influencing/controlling the dice enough to change the random outcome of the game at this point. None. Zero. The books that talk about it tell stories, but I could tell a story, too.
Could it "ever" happen? As stated above, it "could". I just don't think it will.
Quote: RonCIf there were any folks that could control the dice enough to influence the outcome of the game (win a lot), you'd think this community would know of them. We have people playing all over the country...
Is it "possible" to control/influence the dice--well, a lot of things that were seemingly impossible years ago are being done now. It may be "possible" but there is absolutely no proof of anyone influencing/controlling the dice enough to change the random outcome of the game at this point. None. Zero. The books that talk about it tell stories, but I could tell a story, too.
Could it "ever" happen? As stated above, it "could". I just don't think it will.
I agree , dice influence is just not possible under current playing conditions and rules so it will most likely never be proven. The only proven instance of dice influence I can think of is "dice sliding", but that is considered illegal or cheating so it isn't allowed.
1.) Fixed axis release
2.) Fixed velocity
3.) Fixed angle through the air
4.) Constant deceleration
5.) Fixed impact against the same pyramid over and over again
6.) The only way to isolate these variables are mechanically
If this yields exactly the same combination, then you would have a scientific basis for possibility.
Then you would need to address whether the possible is probable. Can it be done with human hands? I will defer to the autistic realm of human gifts for this one. I once saw a lady whose primary skill apparent was being able to hit the same jackpot over and over again at David and Busters. She timed it perfectly to get a giant wheel to stop on the jackpot arrow. In the 10 minutes that I and others stared with bewilderment, she emptied the machine of coupon points and proceeded to empty out the gift shop. Not sure if management 86'ed her at the end of the day.
Quote: MathExtremistOne day I will build a dice-throwing robot arm, do a rigorous set of experiments with fixed and repeatable initial conditions, and publish a paper on the results. I may be able to get a casino to agree to let the experiments be held on a (closed) craps table, especially if I agree to replace the dice and felt when I'm done. Because with the dice landing in exactly the same spot for hundreds of rolls, there might be a big hole in the felt.
A casino might agree if you give them the promotions rights and credits. Casinos name on the felt has a lot of video marketing value.
It wouldn't change anyone's mind.Quote: MathExtremistOne day I will build a dice-throwing robot arm, do a rigorous set of experiments with fixed and repeatable initial conditions, and publish a paper on the results. I may be able to get a casino to agree to let the experiments be held on a (closed) craps table, especially if I agree to replace the dice and felt when I'm done. Because with the dice landing in exactly the same spot for hundreds of rolls, there might be a big hole in the felt.
The DI believers will say your dice-throwing robot arm can't mimic a human throw.
Ask dicesitter what would he go if someone built a mechanical arm and it shows completely random results.
I'm not really out to change anyone's mind per se. I know for a fact that if you set the dice and dropped them from a height of 0.5cm, the results would not be biased. The paper I discussed a few weeks ago demonstrated that dice throwing is a dynamical system and was theoretically predictable, but also demonstrated that it is not practically predictable because it is "sensitively dependent upon initial conditions." Here's the abstract of that paper:Quote: AxelWolfIt wouldn't change anyone's mind.
The DI believers will say your dice-throwing robot arm can't mimic a human throw.
Ask dicesitter what would he go if someone built a mechanical arm and it shows completely random results.
Quote: The three-dimensional dynamics of the die throw
The essential property characterizing random phenomena
is the impossibility of predicting individual outcomes.
Generally, it is assumed that when we toss a coin, throw a
die, or run a roulette ball this condition is fulfilled and all
predictions have to be based on the laws of large numbers.
In practice, the only thing one can tell with a given
degree of certainty is the average outcome after a large
number of experiments. On the other hand, it is clear
that the dynamics of the coin, die, or roulette ball can be
described by the deterministic equations of motion.
Knowing the initial condition with a finite accuracy , the
viscosity of the air, the value of the acceleration due to
the gravity at the place of experiment, and the friction
and elasticity factors of the table one should thus be able
to predict the outcome. In real experiment, the predictability
is possible only for very small , i.e., an accuracy
which in practice is extremely difficult to implement and
that is why the coin toss, die throw, and roulette run can
be considered as a random process.
My hypothesis is as follows: "Even when a high-precision mechanical device is used to throw the dice on a typical casino craps table, there should be a distance D (less than the length of the table) beyond which the dice exhibit uniform face probabilities. What is D?"
When I say "throw", I mean a throw that would be considered acceptable in live casino play. Both dice through the air, off the back wall, not sliding or short-rolls, etc.
There are really two possibilities. If I am wrong, then a robotic arm at the far end of the table would be able to bias the dice outcomes. That would imply that a sufficiently well-practiced human could do so as well. If I am right, then under the reasonable assumption that no human is as precise as my robot, dice influence by a human would not be possible insofar as they were trying to throw the same way the robot does (two dice side-by-side, attempting to minimize the probability of the axial faces).
I know one thing for sure, anyone that makes a decent effort can develop a decent shot can get one.. After having taken the classes
I have and seen where many shooters started from and got to in a couple of days. Some people are also far better than
others.
So when people suggest there is no basis in what I say, I know they have made no effort at all.
As I have said many times, the idea of complete dice control, the I am throwing an eight and hitting the
eight is a myth... the control that would cause the casino to lose money on dice control is a myth..
Now there are folks that think if you cant make a killing why bother or that shows there is no control. Those folks completely
misunderstand the facts of what a shot can and cant do....
I get the point Math and Axel are making.....whats the sense of doing something that takes so long to get good at and then
when you can do it, you cant clean up with it....there is no question if you take the pay I get in the court room and compare
it to what I have made on the table. you would have to be nuts to try.... my wife has suggested that more than one time, I have
more than one die indication on the wall which reflects just a tad of frustration from time to time.
HOWEVER.......my reason for starting this is I am competitive, I love craps and I felt if there was any degree of dice control
which could be attained I wanted to see if I could do it.... it was not for money.. it was to see if I could do it.
I have exchanged a whole lot of money (classes and table) and time in exchange for what I got out of this.. for me I think it
was a good exchange I am happy about what I have learned about the shot and dice and got to talk to and get help from
some very interesting craps players.... this has been a great trip.
But I understand Math and others and I wont suggest that if you look only at money...it is worth the effort
dicesetter
I don't think you know this at all, unless your definition of "decent shot" is simply some consistency in the trajectory while the dice are in the air, regardless of whether they bounce randomly all over the table after they land. That's not a useful definition of "decent shot".Quote: dicesitterI know one thing for sure, anyone that makes a decent effort can develop a decent shot can get one..
You appear to be suggesting that "anyone who makes a decent effort" can develop the skills to influence the die-face probabilities away from uniform results when thrown on a casino craps table. That's demonstrably false, evidenced by the many before you who have already made a "decent effort" and failed miserably to influence the dice at all. It doesn't matter what your dice *look like* as they fly through the air if they bounce off the irregular back wall and yield uniform face results.
You keep claiming that your particular throw yields non-uniform die face results, you're just unable/unwilling to prove it.
As I have said many times, complete dice control is not even remotely necessary to beat the game. Even a tiny bit of influence -- two or three percent deviation in the probabilities depending on the direction -- would yield an exploitable edge over the casino. I know this because I've done the math and I can quantify exactly how much influence a shooter would need to produce a positive edge. It's nowhere close to "complete dice control." Basically, if you have any influence at all, you should have a theoretical edge over the game. And because the influence is irrespective of wager size, simply increasing your bet would lead to greater profits. In short, if you actually did have the edge and were trying to make money, you would be.Quote:As I have said many times, the idea of complete dice control, the I am throwing an eight and hitting the
eight is a myth... the control that would cause the casino to lose money on dice control is a myth..
You may be satisfied after spending lots of time and money on learning your dice-throwing technique even though you can't use that skill to replace the income from your day job, but that's not what would satisfy most other people. The question isn't whether learning dice-throwing techniques from a self-titled dice-throwing coach is a spiritually satisfying experience, it's whether learning those techniques creates +EV craps opportunities. That's an objective, quantifiable question.
To paraphrase Shark Tank's Mr. Wonderful, "Dice influence is about one thing. Making money." If you're not making money with your alleged dice influence, "I'm out."
Quote: MathExtremistI'm not really out to change anyone's mind per se. I know for a fact that if you set the dice and dropped them from a height of 0.5cm, the results would not be biased. The paper I discussed a few weeks ago demonstrated that dice throwing is a dynamical system and was theoretically predictable, but also demonstrated that it is not practically predictable because it is "sensitively dependent upon initial conditions." Here's the abstract of that paper:
My hypothesis is as follows: "Even when a high-precision mechanical device is used to throw the dice on a typical casino craps table, there should be a distance D (less than the length of the table) beyond which the dice exhibit uniform face probabilities. What is D?"
When I say "throw", I mean a throw that would be considered acceptable in live casino play. Both dice through the air, off the back wall, not sliding or short-rolls, etc.
There are really two possibilities. If I am wrong, then a robotic arm at the far end of the table would be able to bias the dice outcomes. That would imply that a sufficiently well-practiced human could do so as well. If I am right, then under the reasonable assumption that no human is as precise as my robot, dice influence by a human would not be possible insofar as they were trying to throw the same way the robot does (two dice side-by-side, attempting to minimize the probability of the axial faces).
This is good stuff, M.
I'll donate 8 hours of shooting time for you if it will help your research.
Quote: MathExtremistI'm not really out to change anyone's mind per se. I know for a fact that if you set the dice and dropped them from a height of 0.5cm, the results would not be biased.
Sorry, bad typo; that should have been "would be biased." It's not much of a "throw" but there are obviously distances below which dice can be "controlled." But those degenerate cases aren't really interesting. What's interesting is understanding the boundary at which dice start to exhibit non-predictable (chaotic) behavior. 3 inches? 12 inches? 36?
Think about it -- a rigorous study that, for example, with a precision machine no predictability was evident over an 8' distance but that under 4' some was? That may tell the industry to stop using mini-craps tubs. (I'm not suggesting this is what the experiment would find, but it would be an interesting finding.)
Knowing what your setup looks like, I'd be happy to take you up on that to generate a first dataset. Once I have a suitable machine, that is. It might be a while for that...Quote: AhighThis is good stuff, M.
I'll donate 8 hours of shooting time for you if it will help your research.
I just want to see, and know that it actually works.Thats all I need, there are people who once they know somthing is possible they can figure a way to exploit and profit from it.
NO offense DS, but this I'm not in it for the money BS. Is exactly that, BS.
When people take up gambling endeavors It's for the money(especially asnmuch time as you have dedicated). Sure they want entertainment But they want to WIN and MAKE money.
sorry you are 100% wrong,,, I already have enough money, I wanted to see if I could do it.
The goal was to see if I could play craps after I retire and not lose all the money I saved.
That is a really good goal, a goal 99% of craps players wont attain.
I am incredibly happy with my current results..... you and Math may not be, that's fine because
we are looking for different things, the only real difference is you guys wont do any work, so you have to
rely on others ... not a choice I would make.
I would rather do what I have done and find out I failed, than do nothing....but the way it turned out
I am pretty pleased.
dicesetter
Quote: dicesitterThe goal was to see if I could play craps after I retire and not lose all the money I saved. That is a really good goal, a goal 99% of craps players wont attain.
So then, you argue that ninety-nine percent of craps players will lose all of their life's savings if they play craps after they retire?
That is blatant, blithering balderdash.
As far as robotic arms go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNpWsKflcMg
That video might make peak some interest.
I however think the following video of a USBC mechanical bowling arm as the ultimate control and design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8yMFdPD68c
If you can appreciate the latter, dice control is just "within an arms length reach". Ahem ;-)
But math could learn to throw much faster than producing that robotic arm.
dicesetter
if it took you 7 year's why do you think he could learn it much faster?Quote: dicesitterThat is a good idea.
But math could learn to throw much faster than producing that robotic arm.
dicesetter
Couple of things are clear..... first Math thinks he is much smarter than I am. I have been working
on this for 7 years I got to be real dumb
second ......... since he and you have given up for the most complaining about my data it appears you
see something in my throw or data that is at least interesting.... now the refrain is if you can do that
you should be able to make hundreds of thousands of dollars..... or at least take some one with you
that would pay you to shoot.
So since he and perhaps you also think your much smarter than I am you should be able to
develop my throw much quicker than I did and make hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That beats the heck out of wasting your time on here doing nothing.
Why in the world would I work on a robotic arm that I cant use in a casino anyway, and one that
even if it shows some bias could not be duplicated. In a private conversation I can tell anyone what
I did and particularly if they were so much smarter than I am then imagine what they could do.
dicesetter
On a slight tangent, since you believe in the ability to somewhat influence the result of a throw, are you an advocate of on axis or off-axis? I am just asking as I am on the sideline. For the record, I am not a DC or DI.
Quote: dicesitterI have been working on this for 7 years I got to be real dumb
Not "dumb."
More like "math / logic impaired."
But that's fine: western christian civilization is naught but a history of one group trying to impose its superstitions on another.
Quote: whodatDS,
On a slight tangent, since you believe in the ability to somewhat influence the result of a throw, are you an advocate of on axis or off-axis? I am just asking as I am on the sideline. For the record, I am not a DC or DI.
For the record, neither is anyone else.
"logic impaired" Love it.Quote: MrVNot "dumb."
More like "math / logic impaired."
But that's fine: western christian civilization is naught but a history of one group trying to impose its superstitions on another.
Quote: dicesitterSo since he and perhaps you also think your much smarter than I am you should be able to
develop my throw much quicker than I did and make hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Intelligence doesn't matter very much when you're throwing dice unless you're propelling them via telekinesis.
Now then, I do have above-average manual dexterity: I've thrown a handful of 180s in dart games over the years and I'm a pretty good woodwind player. So I have no doubt that I could "develop your throw" in a matter of hours and have exactly the same degree of influence over the results that you do after all your practice. It really doesn't matter how you're throwing the dice, I'm pretty sure I could mimic it.
Out of all the things you ever said to anyone, this one will go down as a major slap in the face. If you actually could mimic it (I'm skeptical, but you said hours, that's open to interpretation ) it might seriously make him rethink the last 7 years.Quote: MathExtremistSo I have no doubt that I could "develop your throw" in a matter of hours
On the other hand, the DI schools would probably use that as a selling point. "Look how easy it is, your shot can look like this in just a few hours"
I would be curious, if after someone like you attempted this. Then both that person and Dicesitter Video recorded a bunch of shots in the same environment, then someone randomly picked out 50 shots, if he could accurately tell the differences. My guess is no.
I discount almost data posted in forums. Even "well conducted" scientific data gets skewed. Mistakes can be made. Your data has nothing to do with me wanting to see some evidence of influence. You're practically the only one here still activity defending DI. I understand why. Your shot from the videos I seen, seem consistent and LOOK as if it's something viable. But then there's this nasty thing called the table.Quote: dicesitterAxelwolf
Couple of things are clear..... first Math thinks he is much smarter than I am. I have been working
on this for 7 years I got to be real dumb
second ......... since he and you have given up for the most complaining about my data it appears you
see something in my throw or data that is at least interesting.... now the refrain is if you can do that
you should be able to make hundreds of thousands of dollars..... or at least take some one with you
that would pay you to shoot.
So since he and perhaps you also think your much smarter than I am you should be able to
develop my throw much quicker than I did and make hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That beats the heck out of wasting your time on here doing nothing.
Why in the world would I work on a robotic arm than I cant use in a casino anyway, and one that
even if it shows some bias could not be duplicated. In a private conversation I can tell anyone what
I did and particularly if they were so much smarter than I am they imagine the results they could
have.
dicesetter
If DI is humanly possible, I think your shot would be a contender. Again there to much bouncing around after the dice hit the table, some people can minimize this but I haven't seen anything that makes me say, "WOW! Look at that, something is happening that's defining randomness."
Quote: AxelWolfOut of all the things you ever said to anyone, this one will go down as a major slap in the face. If you actually could mimic it (I'm skeptical, but you said hours, that's open to interpretation ) it might seriously make him rethink the last 7 years.
There are only a few ways the dice can be moving (spinning or otherwise) and have any chance of influence after hitting the table and back wall. And there are only a few ways the bones in the hand, wrist, and arm can impart that motion to the dice and still get them all the way down the table. I've read Scarne and Lovell and I like my chances, especially because I said "mimic the shot" rather than "beat the game with the shot." There's a world of difference between the two. Unless dicesitter has mastered the Greek shot, which is frankly the only thing that should take more than a few weeks to figure out, I'm pretty sure I could copy his roll. Remember, I said I could "have the same degree of influence." Of course, I think throwing the dice while doing a highland dance and drinking Scotch would also have the same degree of influence.
And I don't even know what his shot looks like. You indicated that you'd seen videos -- can you post links? I could probably figure it out without even seeing his hands if the motion of the dice before landing is clear enough.
Sounds like the makings of a WoV challenge to me. But perhaps a better challenge is the one involving Scotch...Quote:I would be curious if after someone like you attempted this. Then both that person and Dicesitter Video recorded a bunch of shots, then someone randomly picked out 50 shots, if he could accurately tell the differences. My guess is no.
I think he posted the videos in the Scooby Doo Mystery of the Biased Dice thread.Quote: MathExtremistThere are only a few ways the dice can be moving (spinning or otherwise) and have any chance of influence after hitting the table and back wall. And there are only a few ways the bones in the hand, wrist, and arm can impart that motion to the dice and still get them all the way down the table. I've read Scarne and Lovell and I like my chances, especially because I said "mimic the shot" rather than "beat the game with the shot." There's a world of difference between the two. Unless dicesitter has mastered the Greek shot, which is frankly the only thing that should take more than a few weeks to figure out, I'm pretty sure I could copy his roll. Remember, I said I could "have the same degree of influence." Of course, I think throwing the dice while doing a highland dance and drinking Scotch would also have the same degree of influence.
And I don't even know what his shot looks like. You indicated that you'd seen videos -- can you post links? I could probably figure it out without even seeing his hands if the motion of the dice before landing is clear enough.
Sounds like the makings of a WoV challenge to me. But perhaps a better challenge is the one involving Scotch...
His shots seemed to consistently land in the same spot and not bounce far from the back wall. Unlike most of the many other DI wannabes. I have seen some ugly shooters who claim they have an advantage. Meanwhile the dice consistently bounce around and settle a foot or more away from the wall after hitting it.
They think as long as the dice look good in the air they have an advantage. They must be delusional.
There really is not anything like an on axis throw. There are a couple of shots that are called
that such as GTC and PARR, but as video clearly indicates, no shot stays on axis the entire shot.
I use both, but I work hard on trying to limit the bounce after they hit the table and try not to allow
contact with the alligator board.
dicesetter
There really is not anything like an on axis throw. There are a couple of shots that are called
that such as GTC and PARR, but as video clearly indicates, no shot stays on axis the entire shot.
If this is the case for experienced shooters, wouldn't it be better(theoretically of course) to use the hardway set?
