TABLE FREQUENCY

My craps table frequency is 235 HZ. B flat is 233.1. Lets see how much flak this thread will draw. Or will intelligence actually prevail with good responses.

My guess is there isn't a body on this board that knows what their table frequency is or they don't know the frequency of the live tables they play on. Think carefully about this. Sound has a definite meaning when it comes to dice and table surfaces. Next time you wonder why one table gave you fair results yet others didn't, what sounds did you hear when the dice struck the table and how did they behave?

Linaway

I only play on tables with a frequency of 231 Hz or less.

Does a table's "frequency" (whatever THAT is) have any correlation as to how "bouncy" the table top is?

Might a "bouncier" table be expected to have a higher "frequency" than a deader table?

How does one measure a table's "frequency," anyway?

Quote: Linaway

My craps table frequency is 235 HZ. B flat is 233.1. Lets see how much flak this thread will draw. Or will intelligence actually prevail with good responses.

My guess is there isn't a body on this board that knows what their table frequency is or they don't know the frequency of the live tables they play on. Think carefully about this. Sound has a definite meaning when it comes to dice and table surfaces. Next time you wonder why one table gave you fair results yet others didn't, what sounds did you hear when the dice struck the table and how did they behave?

Linaway

Do you attempt, or practice, a toss that would suggest dice influence? And, could I measure my table's frequency with a guitar tuner? (probably not, huh)

231 Htz seems a bit high. I find I get my truest roll at less than 210.

The tuning fork gets some strange looks. Oh well.

Quote: Linaway

My craps table frequency is 235 HZ. B flat is 233.1. Lets see how much flak this thread will draw. Or will intelligence actually prevail with good responses.

Table frequency? Ooops must be a dice control thread. Something about additive sound waves but a table is like a bridge its going to be bouncier in the middle than at the ends and dice don't land in the middle of the table, they land at the end of the table.

-turn your bets off when dealers change; the dice somehow know when they change and don't like it so they try to land on 7

-don't hit the chips with the dice. This upsets the dice and they land on 7

-if the dice hits someone's hand, they will most likely land on 7 and the roll shouldn't count (even though the shooter threw them knowing the player had his hand in the tub)

-throw them consistently - if you start to make your throws inconsistent the dice don't like it and you'll 7 out

-don't buy in in the middle of a roll. Again, the dice don't like it and they'll try to land on 7.

-the magical table frequency is 226

-NEVER USE A TUNING FORK AT THE TABLE!!

deleted

SOOPOO,

You're correct in your application of lower frequency tables.

Linaway

Quote: Linaway

SOOPOO,

You're correct in your application of lower frequency tables.

Linaway

OK, I'll bite..... How do you measure the 'frequency' of a craps table? If it was vibrating at some constant frequency, wouldn't that be affected by players leaning on the table at varying times with varying weights in varying directions?

And of course..... Do you really believe that if you know the table's frequency you can use that information to help you 'influence the dice'?

You know that I'm willing to bet you can't......

Quote: MrV

Does a table's "frequency" (whatever THAT is) have any correlation as to how "bouncy" the table top is?

Might a "bouncier" table be expected to have a higher "frequency" than a deader table?

How does one measure a table's "frequency," anyway?

Question 1.....yes
Question 2.....yes

There are no points where you can actually attach a shielded probe to test the frequency but a transducer could be used. A mic could be used but that like the transducer costs money. Then who has a frequency counter? The list goes on and on.

Here is what I did. Years ago I built an audio oscillator to test audio circuits with. One day I thought, I wonder what frequency the sound of dice make on my table? I kept dropping the dice in one spot only while my musician son with his keen ears monitored what he heard and tweaked the dial on the oscillator until finally the same sound was acquired.



By using a home grown audio tone oscillator, my son matched the sound of the dice striking the table to that coming out of
the oscillator. We then took it to the house where he broke out his Vintage American Made Fender Stratocaster Guitar. The chord
he struck was a "B FLAT"!

We also have a digital frequency meter which plugged into the circuit and came up with a frequency of 235 HZ. Looking at the site link below, B flat is 233.1 hz.



Mr. V, I appreciate your actually showing some curiosity even though dice chucking may not be your thing. At least you offered up good questions without negative aspirations.

THANK YOU!

Using imagination, any device that can record sounds might be used to record what the device reacts to, then compare it to the sounds possible at the site shown. This isn't rocket science, just something to do while waiting for the next experiment to crop up.
We all have been blessed with senses. Sight and hearing, why not use them to our advantage.


As for the rest of the responses, most of the sarcasm coming from them wasn't necessary. Try posting with original or useful material. By the way, I was invited here by one of your own. Initially I declined but then decided I was just as good as any of you and probably better than some.

Linaway

Quote: Linaway

We also have a digital frequency meter which plugged into the circuit and came up with a frequency of 235 HZ. Looking at the site link below, B flat is 233.1 hz.

The real question - is the frequency determined by the dimensions of the tub (like an aerophone), or the dimensions and tautness of the felt (like a string), or by some other factor?

Quote: RS

NEVER USE A TUNING FORK AT THE TABLE!!

Hmm, lessons rarely taught in todays etiquette schools.


I understand what the OP offers, empirically, but to what end is the question.

Dieter,

Don't take offense, but you might be getting to critical of what to listen for and where. Sound, what do you hear. think about the frequency [sound] you might hear should you drop the dice on a table with a Formica finish. The dice rattle around and make a higher pitched sound than if you drop the dice on your practice box or table. The dice are less active and have a lower pitched sound. Hence frequency. Different points on the table will probably make slightly different sounds but this is not rocket science, just a simple test to help you when you get to the casino and you see the dice leaving the table frequently, bouncy surfaces and so on. Tables that are less lively might serve you better. If you can't find one, then you must modify your toss and learn where the dice drop zones serve you best without winding up in the adjacent blackjack pit.

By the way. Any of you want to make an audio oscillator, do an engine search for schematics on code oscillators n such. A 555 chip and a few components will make a dandy. Also will drive your pet birds and other critters crazy.

Linaway

Remember Galloping Gerty? The bridge over the Tacoma Narrows?
Don't ever ignore something. It might be too complex to utilize the information or useless but it should be interesting.
If the dice are landing at Bsharp and the Table is Bflat would a sudden sneeze catch up to where the dice landed an add to the resonance?

Linaway,

Suppose, and visualize the following scenarios:

1. dice dropped onto a granite counter top, and bounce
2. dice dropped onto a standard, felt covered, craps table, and bounce
3. dice dropped onto a foam rubber sheet, and bounce
4. dice dropped onto bed, covered by a blanket, and bounce

Of the four, two will have resonating frequencies that closely resemble each other; however, they will display drastically differing bounce characteristics. Examples 3 and 4 are the aforementioned. My point is that some craps tables are "spongy" and will easily launch a die errantly across the casino, despite them conveying a frequency range that you find desirable...based on my understanding of your post.

MaxSwelle,

Probably. Don't know if it has a series of fixed frequency points or a vernier dial. If you have a mini-recorder, go to the site I gave and record several different tones in lower frequencies. Playback while chucking bones on your practice table until you find the tone that best fits your table. Make dice drop points about the same.

snip
1. dice dropped onto a granite counter top, and bounce
2. dice dropped onto a standard, felt covered, craps table, and bounce

1.....dice rattling around on a granite top IMO would have a higher frequency and they will rattle around all over the place.
2.....dice on a standard like felt covered table would have different levels of bounce where granite is too rigid.

Your trying to be too selective. All this experiment is doing is showing you how you might possibly tune your practice table to a similar frequency you must play on at your local casino. For instance a piece of 1/8 inch panel board [cheap stuff] might give you a less bouncy surface and lower frequency while 1/8" Masonite might give you a higher frequency and more bounce.

I don't believe in spending a lot of money on a practice table. Make do and use that extra money for bets on a live table. Not everybody has a full sized room to dedicate to a full sized craps table or several thousand dollars to blow on peripherals for it or an understanding spouse that would tolerate it. My table resides in an unattached garage, is a 12 footer and the pyramids are an old convoluted mattress I cut to fit, then Walmart provided the felt. Table structure is made from scrap material left over from an extensive home remodeling. As for seminars, got no time or funds available for such things. So I designed and built my own electronic observers to indicate to me when I did good or bad.

Linaway

Quote: Linaway

Dieter,

Don't take offense, but you might be getting to critical of what to listen for and where.

I'm not taking offense. I'm trying to apply what little I know of physics and sound waves to better understand the phenomenon.

Quote: FleaStiff

Remember Galloping Gerty? The bridge over the Tacoma Narrows?
Don't ever ignore something. It might be too complex to utilize the information or useless but it should be interesting.
If the dice are landing at Bsharp and the Table is Bflat would a sudden sneeze catch up to where the dice landed an add to the resonance?

What key?

You are probably already familiar with Tesla.

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Nikola-Tesla-Inventions-Resonance.htm


Right off the top, Tesla was convinced that everything has it's own frequency and that healing could be achieved with the correct frequency. When I was reading up on it, it was thought that certain frequency's could burst tumors without hurting the host.

This isn't that link, but similar

http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter275/index.htm

Sometimes I play 528, low volume in background not believing it can hurt?

http://youtu.be/qG2ml9V00YA

petroglyph,

Well done.

Linaway

Linaway.



I guess i am not 100% sure about what your talking about, though sound on a table is
important. For instance if i go into a casino and get in the area of the pit, if i cant hear
the dice on the table, i know right away i cant use my GTC/parr shot, the table is to
soft. I then have to see if i can be effective with one of my other shots, or go home.

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

Linaway.



I guess i am not 100% sure about what your talking about, though sound on a table is
important. For instance if i go into a casino and get in the area of the pit, if i cant hear
the dice on the table, i know right away i cant use my GTC/parr shot, the table is to
soft. I then have to see if i can be effective with one of my other shots, or go home.

dicesetter

dicesetter,

what is it about a soft table that's not good for a gtc/parr shot?

Nickolay411


When i refer to that, i am suggesting my experience as well as a number of
others.

The PARR or GTC shot down the line roll is a shot where the shooter tries to equal the
rotation between the dice and land them as flat as possible. A very soft table is
a bouncy table, and unless your shot is perfect, any difference in rotation or
landing angle changes the way each of the dice hit the aligator board, and then
there is no consistancy between them. On a shorter soft table, you can add some
to the back spin and elevate some, but what happens then is some times you will
not hit the back wall.

All in all, there are about 20 things that can go wrong with a PARR/GTC roll on
a soft table, and only one ( perfection) that can go right. In addition your attempt to
be perfect can slow your toss down making you stand out like a sore thumb to a pit
boss as a dice controller.

Dicesetter

Dicesitter,

Sorry about the slow response. I don't usually patronize this board and just now found
your query.

Table frequency is the sound you hear when the dice hit the table. Looks like you already
have a handle on it with your description.

Our examples may not agree but if you have a hard cabinet surface like marble, drop a
die on it, sounds like hail on a tin roof and the die dances big time. Drop the same die on
lets say a softer surface, the dice do not dance as much and have a thud like sound. Listen
for these sounds and you will know if this is a table you can deal with or not.

I have a tin ear, actually need hearing aids in both. But I have a brainy son with excellent
hearing and is a musician. I'm an electronics nut and build most of my test equipment
which comes in handy for these kind of exercises, but you don't really need this equipment.
Most people with descent hearing should be able to hear the difference between their
practice table and one in a casino. If such a match cannot be found, either go home or take
the bit in your teeth, make adjustments to meet the dice/table dynamics in the casino.

Another example might be a drum skin. A drummer tunes their drums. Tighter skin provides
a higher pitch frequency. Looser skin will be a lower sound. Simply put, know the instrument
your playing and what sounds it makes.

Please nobody tell me I have to roll the dice 10,000 times to know what they sound like on my
practice table. I quickly OD on math. I have instrumentation to do most things I need to know
about. Hey, I once built a Streak Detector which I'm sure Demango would love to tell you about.

LOL

Linaway

Quote: Linaway

Dicesitter,

Sorry about the slow response. I don't usually patronize this board and just now found
your query.

Table frequency is the sound you hear when the dice hit the table. Looks like you already
have a handle on it with your description.

Our examples may not agree but if you have a hard cabinet surface like marble, drop a
die on it, sounds like hail on a tin roof and the die dances big time. Drop the same die on
lets say a softer surface, the dice do not dance as much and have a thud like sound. Listen
for these sounds and you will know if this is a table you can deal with or not.

I have a tin ear, actually need hearing aids in both. But I have a brainy son with excellent
hearing and is a musician. I'm an electronics nut and build most of my test equipment
which comes in handy for these kind of exercises, but you don't really need this equipment.
Most people with descent hearing should be able to hear the difference between their
practice table and one in a casino. If such a match cannot be found, either go home or take
the bit in your teeth, make adjustments to meet the dice/table dynamics in the casino.

Another example might be a drum skin. A drummer tunes their drums. Tighter skin provides
a higher pitch frequency. Looser skin will be a lower sound. Simply put, know the instrument
your playing and what sounds it makes.

Please nobody tell me I have to roll the dice 10,000 times to know what they sound like on my
practice table. I quickly OD on math. I have instrumentation to do most things I need to know
about. Hey, I once built a Streak Detector which I'm sure Demango would love to tell you about.

LOL

Linaway

I bet you could have the exact same table at your house and practice till the cows come home(you should probably follow them). You still wouldn't have an advantage.

AxelWolf,

How kind of you to greet me with such a fine and courteous gesture. I can imagine many new posters standing in line to get inside this board to participate.

As I see it, your education is getting in the way of intelligence and common sense. The theme of my post has nothing to do with math or narrow mindedness. It's about cubes in motion and that's all it is. As before, I leave the board not to return for a very long time. As usual, each time I come on the board, it isn't the Wiz of Vegas, more like the Whiz of Vegas. Always a whiz contest.

Axle, I suggest you refrain from your snide remarks until you better understand the subject matter.

No doubt the admin may look on my response as not being favorable. Look closely at what I got.

Goodbye,

Linaway

Wait, what?

I seriously thought this thread was a joke....

In your first post, you do in fact, introduce "Lets see how much flak this thread will draw."

Linaway; Thanks for the kind words. Don't be a stranger.