Question for Dicesetter

Dicesetter made the following comment in the thread about the Wizard's Craps Challenge. I thought it would be more appropriate to continue this discussion in the Dice Setting forum... where it clearly belongs. Dicesetter responded to my comment that we need a standard by which to measure "dice influencing." Dicesetter responded:

Quote: dicesitter

Alan

I have been asking this for a long time, what is the standard... and the answer is none, nothing would be good enough
so that is why i say there is no such thing as dice control...period

An additional item is a thing i am pretty sure you understand, dice influence has little to do with winning, because it
can be positive or negative.

A casino that wants to make money should have a large sign in front of the casino... craps , 10x odds and all dice
setters are welcome.

dicesetter

Now I have a few questions for Dicesetter:

1. Since when do you believe that there is no such thing as dice control... period? You not only use the name dicesetter but you have had conversations with me inviting me to play with you and you have told about your own successes at the tables. Is this your "public persona" trying to blend in with the crowd while you secretly (or with your dice influencing cronies) actively try to beat the casinos with your dice influencing?

2. You say that dice influence has little to do with winning because "it can be positive or negative." Well, my friend, if someone thinks they are influencing the dice but they are getting negative results, then they aren't influencing the dice are they? By definition a dice influencer is trying to make the dice go the way he wants them to go. A dice influencer can be a shooter from the pass or the DP -- but if the dice influencer is not getting the numbers he wants then he has failed.

3. Your posts appear to be double talk. What are your true colors?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Dicesetter made the following comment in the thread about the Wizard's Craps Challenge. I thought it would be more appropriate to continue this discussion in the Dice Setting forum... where it clearly belongs. Dicesetter responded to my comment that we need a standard by which to measure "dice influencing." Dicesetter responded:



Now I have a few questions for Dicesetter:

1. Since when do you believe that there is no such thing as dice control... period? You not only use the name dicesetter but you have had conversations with me inviting me to play with you and you have told about your own successes at the tables. Is this your "public persona" trying to blend in with the crowd while you secretly (or with your dice influencing cronies) actively try to beat the casinos with your dice influencing?

2. You say that dice influence has little to do with winning because "it can be positive or negative." Well, my friend, if someone thinks they are influencing the dice but they are getting negative results, then they aren't influencing the dice are they? By definition a dice influencer is trying to make the dice go the way he wants them to go. A dice influencer can be a shooter from the pass or the DP -- but if the dice influencer is not getting the numbers he wants then he has failed.

3. Your posts appear to be double talk. What are your true colors?

I would guess he is someone who finally found out the truth after a lucky run but then inevitable happened. Now he just plays for fun.

Alan



Respectfully you have most of this wrong..

I have indicated there is no such thing as dice "control" and i have done that for a couple of reasons

First there appears no way to prove it because we cant even agree on a standard of proof. Second
the only people that want to prove dice influence works are the people that are sure it does not
work... this constant public push to prove it only further confuses a casino in terms of what they
may or may not allow. so for me, it is just as simple to say hey i dont care, i have been hasseled enough
at the tables and so have others.... now people ask me publicly does dice control work, "how would i know"

I realized that when i first came on the board i was determined to prove it works, that was to make myself
feel good, but that hurts others that go to the table and are hasseled if they set the dice. I agree with
Superrick in that something caused the casino's to react to us, it is eiither us or the books and classes, either
way, i dont want to be part of harming another player.

In terms of negative or positive, you know the answer to that. Unless you took the god advanced craps class
there is no way to control each and every throw to get the exact number you want. So short of that if your
throw is a consistent toss you can repeat any number, even a 7 more than you want. Look at a GTC toss
using the hardway set, if you have a high ratio of on axis finish, and are a tad off the 3/4 4/3 will come out
so much it will blow the normal distribution of numbers out of the water.

Because of this, dice control is a great thing for the casino, nor so good for mortals

dicesetter

I'll chime in. First of all, affecting the outcome of the dice to be non-random positively affects some bets and negatively affects other bets. Dice control, if it is real, is something that can be used to win more than expected or to lose more than expected when compared independently to a randomly tossed pair of dice.

IE: if it is real, a controlled shot that is executed perfectly with a random set will, on average, benefit a given bet for some portion of the 576 possible ways to set the dice and it will have a disadvantage for a given bet for the remaining portion.

What most people who believe in dice control believe is that there are well-known ways to throw the dice and to set the dice to avoid the presence of sevens. This is the underlying theory that the majority of believers hold to be true.

But if your toss and release is inconsistent, there is absolutely no way that any of this can work. A perfect setting of the dice followed by shaking and throwing the dice is known to be ineffective by many.

But the same initial conditions followed by throwing in a consistent manner that creates an influence that is counter to what you are hoping to achieve is just as theoretically possible as the influence that is additive to the outcome that you desire.

The Wizard's challenge is a good example. There is not sufficient evidence that control was or was not present. The challenge was to throw as many sevens as possible. Yet I threw an incredible LOW percentage of sevens. My claim is that I was unlucky. But if I were a firm believer in dice control, I would instead claim that I had control, but that my throw was off. We were not keeping track specifically, but I may have thrown the dice as many as 35 times in a row with not a single seven. That's not astronomically impossible, but it's 1 in 590 or thereabouts, and enough to make the point that it's plausible that everything was great except that my toss was off. Again I have to state I don't believe this, just illustrating the point of "negative influence" being just as theoretically possible as the positive variety. You can't have one without the other. Something like missing the basket in basketball by the same two inches to the left except that you have no idea what's right and what's wrong in dice when all you see is the outcome.

When you understand all that I am saying in the above paragraph, it's easy to see why it's so implausible that ANYBODY is doing dice control in the real world. The fact is that if you are going to do it, you need more than a consistent toss. You need everything consistent. That includes your environment, as well. And a host of other factors that simply don't get analyzed enough for the entire proposition to be believable to me personally as someone who has spent the time and energy to look into this stuff. Nobody else is doing it.

The amount of time and energy needed to hit "pay dirt" with this approach is ridiculously insane.

And the fact remains that all you REALLY need is just to get lucky and bet smart.

Combine the two, and you realize that lucky folks who are attempting control mistake one for the other very easily. This includes thinking you had bad luck when you had a bad throw. Or thinking you had a good throw when you had good luck. Or thinking you had good luck when you had a good throw, even! And we're still in the theory domain here, but the fact is that nobody really has any way that I know of to tell what is what in these cases.

Another thing to consider is this. Think about all the DIPs out there making horrible high edge bets and believing in dice control. Those guys are actually giving away MORE money because they think they can control the dice than the guys who think the only thing you can do is reduce the house edge and take max odds and get lucky. They have the least chance to get ahead by betting one-roll bets for their iron cross and crap check and whatever else they throw in there believing they have enough influence to overcome that math. It just gets ridiculous to believe that stuff at some point. But I see people at the table EVERY DAY making crap check bets and attempting dice control at the same time. Absolutely hilarious, in fact.

Quote: Ahigh

But if your toss and release is inconsistent, there is absolutely no way that any of this can work.

Nor if you are required to toss the dice in the air simultaneously from an accepted place at the craps table, and have them both hit the back wall.

Quote: SOOPOO

Nor if you are required to toss the dice in the air simultaneously from an accepted place at the craps table, and have them both hit the back wall.

The theory of operation remains, therefore your statement is based on faith in my opinion.

Some might also say that it requires the help of Jesus, and they have no less evidence for such a belief than you do.

Help me out here, because this looks like a lot of double talk to me:

Quote: dicesitter

Second the only people that want to prove dice influence works are the people that are sure it does not
work...

What the heck does this mean? I am sure that the proponents of the books and the classes want to prove that DI works.

Quote: dicesitter

this constant public push to prove it only further confuses a casino in terms of what they
may or may not allow.

Yes, I am sure the casino industry is constantly monitoring all of the discussion forums. Plus I am sure enough has already been written and shown on the web that DI is no longer a secret society. And if you ask the regulators in Nevada, New Jersey and Michigan they will tell you DI is okay to attempt as long as the shooter isn't sliding the dice.

I am going to ask you this point blank question: CAN YOU NAME A CASINO THAT WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO SET THE DICE OR USE A CONTROLLED THROW? NAME THE CASINO... I WANT TO CALL THEIR MANAGEMENT.

Now, I had that incident at Bellagio with a table crew, but their management apologized to me and said the table crew was wrong. So... name the casino where you were told not to set the dice and/or use a controlled throw.

Now about this last section of your post:

Quote: dicesitter

so for me, it is just as simple to say hey i dont care, i have been hasseled enough
at the tables and so have others.... now people ask me publicly does dice control work, "how would i know"

I realized that when i first came on the board i was determined to prove it works, that was to make myself
feel good, but that hurts others that go to the table and are hasseled if they set the dice. I agree with
Superrick in that something caused the casino's to react to us, it is eiither us or the books and classes, either
way, i dont want to be part of harming another player.

I understand. You are trying to help the other guys in your secret handshake society. You are secretly Batman and Robin (the lot of you) but publicly you're just one of the regular schlepps who says DI doesn't work. So what you are telling us is that DI does work, you and your inner circle are doing it, but you don't want to bring attention to it on this forum because you don't want to bring heat on you and your secret handshake society.

At least those selling DI with the books and tapes and classes have a backbone.

And you guys might want to try playing over at better casinos, where they won't hassle you. Try Caesars. They don't care if your dice come up short and miss the back wall... just get 'em close.

I doubt it's anything other then people admitting they were wrong about DI. Its rare that someone who was so adamant and outspoken about DI being possible and profitable, will ever admit they were wrong. They don't want the humiliation and loss of any credibility. They will always say things like, I think its possible, just not easy. It takes to much time and effort, Im retired now Im taking a break for now or what ever excuse they use.

Imagine if someone like Frank S ever admitted he was wrong.

Why do you think Bob still sticks to his Mysterious Roulette system and claims he can tell PRNG's apart from live games? I think by now he knows dam well its not possible but if he admits that he would have to admit he was wrong.(who knows if he was ever trying to get people to bet for him or sell his system.)

Did Wong ever say it wasn't possible? You have to read between the lines

Imagine if RS ever had to admit his system was wrong or didn't work.

Quote: AxelWolf

Did Wong ever say it wasn't possible? You have to read between the lines.

Trust me that if the Wizard were SURE it were not possible, he would have already given us the proof.

There is nobody nor will there be anybody in any position of authority to say that it's not possible with irrefutable proof.

The rules of the game as they exist today would have to change first.

How many people here think that the house win for craps would not be hurt if players no longer were able to throw the dice and instead one of the dealers had to throw the dice?

The allure of being in control of the dice as they are thrown is a compelling component of the game. The casino might have lost track of this fact, but the "chance to win" being wrapped up with the details of what the player is doing is a compelling reason to want to try to win by throwing the dice yourself for many people.

The Wizard said he hasn't played the game for some time.

I think if I viewed the game the same way as he does, I wouldn't have played it for some time either and would also restrict all my play to positive EV plays (or more likely no play at all).

You want at least a dream of being able to conquer the game, IMO.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Help me out here, because this looks like a lot of double talk to me:

I am going to ask you this point blank question: CAN YOU NAME A CASINO THAT WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO SET THE DICE OR USE A CONTROLLED THROW? NAME THE CASINO... I WANT TO CALL THEIR MANAGEMENT.

There has been and there will be a lot of casinos around the country that have banned dice setting. They have placed signs that even said no dice setting, this is due to poor casino management! Again,.. I'm going to tell you go out and do the research yourself, we do not work for you, take the time to use any good search engine, I'm sure you will find what you are looking for!

Quote: AlanMendelson

I understand. You are trying to help the other guys in your secret handshake society. You are secretly Batman and Robin (the lot of you) but publicly you're just one of the regular schlepps who says DI doesn't work. So what you are telling us is that DI does work, you and your inner circle are doing it, but you don't want to bring attention to it on this forum because you don't want to bring heat on you and your secret handshake society.

At least those selling DI with the books and tapes and classes have a backbone.

I'm sure if you ever got out of your little world of Caesars you would see some different type of shooters, or if you didn't make the mistake of reading Sharpshooters book that you would have a different opinion as to what a DI was or wasn't! I've repeatedly posted these slow motion videos, to show guys like you what really happens when the dice hit the tables!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag

There is no secret handshake society, but there are some posters that love to write fiction about DI's to sell their products, or themselves. We have some great fiction writers on becoming a DI, they write fantastic fictional trip reports, where they say they are winning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year playing craps. They have imaginary SSR's of 28, they can play for 18 hour straight losing money, then get two hours of sleep and win it all back, turning a profit for their trip!

Why don't you go on line and see where you great writer Shapshooter is playing craps now days, I was just told that he retired from playing craps and will now only play when one of his friends is in town!

What's that tell you Alan? You would think that if this guy was so great he would just be playing craps and would have shed his day job years ago! He damn sure wouldn't have retired from playing craps!

The DI thing is one of the best things that happened to craps, but the stupid casino management has turned something that could be making them money into a war against these so-called DI's because of all the fiction that is written everyday by some of our great fiction writers, that are nothing more then pathological liars! Casinos actually think, that these fiction writers are capable of doing what they are writing about!

Guys like you are perpetuating this wet dream that the so-called DI's have, you want proof, we have showed you the slow motion videos, but you still insist that guys like dicesetter come forward and prove what they can do to you. Then if they had a good roll you would still say they just got lucky, just like anybody in their right mind would say, you are kicking a dead horse in the head trying to get the horse to be resurrected, and live up to your silly perspective on what a DI should or shouldn't be!

Use some good old common sense when watching these slow-motion videos, do you see what happens to the dice? I know what you are going to say already that's not how your hero sharpshooter would make a shot, so it doesn't count,..get real, and open your eyes!

If you want someone to prove anything to you , why don't you go out and do it for yourself, take a course when one of these great schools come into Vegas, I'm sure one of their selling points is that you will be able to make your money right back using their on axis shot they are going to teach you!

Quote: AlanMendelson

At least those selling DI with the books and tapes and classes have a backbone.

Why don't you have the backbone to do your own research, instead of trying to goat someone into doing it for you?

I've giving you some very good proof of what really happens when the dice hits the table, there is your starting point, now go out and do your own research, and report back to all us what you find out.

This whole thing, about the DI's will never be proven, we already know who holds the world record for the longest rolls, that's right one of those so-called random rollers that these DI schools tell their students never to bet on!

These videos that I post are for everybody to make up their own mind, is DI possible, or is everybody just getting lucky? Are all humans nothing more than machines, that can keep making the perfect shot?

I will leave you with these videos, that I made, now again I know what you are going to say, the dice didn't have the rotation they needed! They weren't like Sharpshooter's shots, they weren't thrown from six foot back from the back wall, they only dropped six inches and rolled 21 inches to the back wall, how could that duplicate a controlled shot like your hero Sharpshooter!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i29XrhcBYM8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TwGnLZsY3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk6UTWUOBxw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqr8E83MPtU

Alan, just remember you need backbone, do you have what it takes to go out a prove something on your own?

I'm willing to do the work, superrick, but give me a job to do: name the casino which says no dice setting is allowed and no controlled shooting attempts are allowed and I will call them and talk to their management.

This thread was not to be a discussion of those videos of purported dice influencing or dice control. Nor was this thread about your own demonstration of dice sliding down a chute.

Nor was this a thread about the success of any particular shooter including Sharpshooter.

Frankly, I've played with some of the "big names" in "dice control" and I never saw any of them have any particularly great results.

This thread is about Dicesetter's implied statements that he is trying to protect some true DIs who are getting heat because of discussions on forums such as this.

To put it more simply, superrick, this thread is not about you. However, it's been said to me that you are one of these closet dice influencers who doesn't want more heat from the casinos so you are trying to pooh-pooh the idea that dice influencing exists.

The back wall and the dimonds seem to be a big factor in DI. I'm willing to make a offer similar to the wizards offer. and I will allow short rolls. Any so called DI should jump all over this. If you cant DI a nice % on a short roll you cant even come close to DI in perfect conditions.

seriously if you cant take up that offer then you are full of Sht when it comes to DI. You should be giving me odds and begging for me to make the bet.

Quote: AxelWolf

The back wall and the dimonds seem to be a big factor in DI. I'm willing to make a offer similar to the wizards offer. and I will allow short rolls. Any so called DI should jump all over this.

this is why I suggest play at Caesars where in the last few months it seems that they only care that shooters make a good attempt at hitting the back wall and get their dice to the back wall. It appears that actually hitting the back wall is no longer a requirement as long as the dice come close. By "close" I mean within an inch or two.

Even so, the other "school" of DI is to avoid the pyramids and to hit the back wall under the pyramids. I don't want to veer off the subject of this thread too much but all three of the "DIs" I saw hit the back wall under the pyramids.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I'm willing to do the work, superrick, but give me a job to do: name the casino which says no dice setting is allowed and no controlled shooting attempts are allowed and I will call them and talk to their management.

Tuscany.

They also have a $300 max bet.

They have also REFUSED TO GIVE ME CHIPS after putting money on the felt. They suggested I needed to lose the chips I already got first. Only place this has ever happened.

Absolute comedy: the Tuscany.

Well, if they have a $300 max bet, which is even LOWER than the Gold Strike which has $3 craps in Jean, NV. and has a $500 max bet, then I will give them a pass. They can do whatever they want because obviously they don't want any exposure to the possibility of losing.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Well, if they have a $300 max bet, which is even LOWER than the Gold Strike which has $3 craps in Jean, NV. and has a $500 max bet, then I will give them a pass. They can do whatever they want because obviously they don't want any exposure to the possibility of losing.

You brought up the question. You got the answer. I've been to almost every craps table in Vegas. Just curious, can you name off the list of casinos with craps tables that you have been to? If it's easier list the ones you haven't been to.

I can't think of a single craps table in the greater Las Vegas area that I haven't been to. The only one I haven't played on is the Westin that I can think of and I've been there twice and it wasn't open.

I think the thing that is being said, Alan, is that you come across as knowing things, but you have a keyhole view into the craps world known as Caesar's Palace. If one were to first assume it is possible to get an advantage on the game of craps, it's not difficult to realize that, even in this case, some tables are not realistically exploitable. Caesar's Palace takes some of the most counter-measures of any craps pit that I know of. And with $50,000 max bets, it's no wonder. But not a place you'd want to use as a measure of how possible dice control is in any case.

alan

You are making way to much of this.

this was not about anyone or any group...period. i just got sick of all
the people asking to prove something to them......what the hell
you going to prove.

After all these years of books and movies and arguments, where in the
hell are we... no where...

My decision to just play the game and forget about all this nonsense is based
on my experience.. I have been asked not to play a number of places, given a
hard time at others, and i am not worth a crap. at the same time i have spent
4 years of real hard work to see if i could have some impact on the dice, and it cost
me countless thousands of dollars, most times because i over bet my ability.

So now i just want to go play....

Alan.. you said this....Frankly, I've played with some of the "big names" in "dice control" and I never saw any of them have any particularly great results.

That is good enough for me...


Maybe it should be good enough for you to.

Dicesetter

Somebody is just looking for MoneyLA. Ignoring him is good, blocking is better. Really those who ask for proof are just looking to use you.

As I have said here many times, so far I have seen only three shooters who I would say are really DIs. And as I've said even the "big names" in dice influencing and dice control have not impressed me. And that includes watching their videos if I haven't played with them in person.

Ahigh, I think the max bet at Caesars is $60,000 and not $50,000. But I prefer the $10 tables. I'm not a big bettor like you.

If someone has a problem with a casino that says you are not allowed to set or try to influence the dice I will call the casino and question them about it. Now if you want me to get on the case of that one casino you mentioned, Ahigh, I'd be happy to do it. Frankly I am curious about their reasoning but I already suspect that if they have such a low max bet that they wouldn't even want to risk the chance that someone might be a good shooter.

I know that the Gold Strike in Jean will never offer a Fire Bet because they told me that one six point payoff would kill them... the action there is so small and their table is only open on weekends. they would rather have slot players, anyway, because they're cheaper to operate. Heck, they don't even have to pay for the ticket paper there.

But for those of you interested... that table at the Gold Strike is a DI's dream. Short, hard surface, minimal bounce and usually the side you throw the dice to is CLOSED so there is no problem about hitting some other player's chips. And it's only a $3 minimum bet which means it's a cheap place to try your luck... or skill. Ahigh you should try it.

Quote: dicesitter

Alan.. you said this....Frankly, I've played with some of the "big names" in "dice control" and I never saw any of them have any particularly great results.

That is good enough for me...


Maybe it should be good enough for you to.

Dicesetter

I am just fascinated how there are several people who don't want dice influencing to be discussed... as if to indicate that their secret will be made public.

The dice are given to the players. The players are supposed to try to hit the numbers that will help them win. So why not discuss it? That's what I don't understand.

Players will discuss card counting. Players will discuss the correct holds in video poker. Players will discuss tells in live poker. But for some odd reason discussing even the possibility of throwing the dice to help you is shunned and condemned. Fascinating.

Quote: AlanMendelson

As I have said here many times, so far I have seen only three shooters who I would say are really DIs. And as I've said even the "big names" in dice influencing and dice control have not impressed me. And that includes watching their videos if I haven't played with them in person.

Ahigh, I think the max bet at Caesars is $60,000 and not $50,000. But I prefer the $10 tables. I'm not a big bettor like you.

If someone has a problem with a casino that says you are not allowed to set or try to influence the dice I will call the casino and question them about it. Now if you want me to get on the case of that one casino you mentioned, Ahigh, I'd be happy to do it. Frankly I am curious about their reasoning but I already suspect that if they have such a low max bet that they wouldn't even want to risk the chance that someone might be a good shooter.

I know that the Gold Strike in Jean will never offer a Fire Bet because they told me that one six point payoff would kill them... the action there is so small and their table is only open on weekends. they would rather have slot players, anyway, because they're cheaper to operate. Heck, they don't even have to pay for the ticket paper there.

But for those of you interested... that table at the Gold Strike is a DI's dream. Short, hard surface, minimal bounce and usually the side you throw the dice to is CLOSED so there is no problem about hitting some other player's chips. And it's only a $3 minimum bet which means it's a cheap place to try your luck... or skill. Ahigh you should try it.

It's $50,000. I've never seen anyone who I would say is a DI. I may have seen someone who if you saw what I saw you would say they were a DI.

As far as the Tuscany and their reasons for their rules, they are just at the bottom of the totem pole and don't know how to run a craps table is the general consensus around these parts. There are always jobs open for craps dealers here too because everyone generally hates working there and they leave any time they have any other place that they can work. The same thing is true for the players. Only people that don't know any better play here, or maybe a player who is looking for a table where nobody else is playing possibly during a busy time like on a friday night.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I am just fascinated how there are several people who don't want dice influencing to be discussed... as if to indicate that their secret will be made public.

The dice are given to the players. The players are supposed to try to hit the numbers that will help them win. So why not discuss it? That's what I don't understand.

These players are just fed up with casinos and people like you that want a so-called DI to step up and prove that they can beat the craps tables!
You live in your own little world, where you only play at Caesars casino, everything you write about has to do with Caesars and that's it! So you have a very limited view on what really happens in the casinos around Las Vegas! If it wasn't for you playing in Caesars casino your lights would be shut off, you my friend would have no view at all!

Players around the country are getting hassled every day because they are setting the dice, there are casinos that do stupid things and tell their players there are no dice setting in their casino. You seem to forget that just about everything you write can still be found on the internet! Didn't you write about the casinos giving even you a hard time at the tables?

Now I did some of your work once again, I don't see a problem finding casinos that have or had no dice setting signs! You need to get out of Caesars and play in some of the other casinos around Vegas, and stop telling us about the only casino you play in, you have a very distorted view on the game craps and the casinos here in Vegas.

There is a growing consensus, that the so-called DI's are getting tired of all the fiction that is written about them. Actually the casinos have more to fear from the so-called random rollers then they do of the so-called DI's. That's because they don't treat them the same way. All players should be treated the same way, there should be no threats of the dice being taking off them, because they are on a good roll, and they are getting lucky and just happen to be setting the dice!

This has all come about because these fiction writers are getting away with what they write, they don't have SRR's of 28, they can't play craps all night long losing, then get two hours of sleep and win all of their money back and go on to make a profit!
They can't take trips to one of the worst casinos there is to play in, in Pennsylvania and win all of their money back for the same trip that they said they were losing on, it just doesn't happen!

So far you said you have seen one shooter that you thought was a DI, and you only saw them only that one time, how can you even make a judgment call on that one shooter, if you have nothing else to base what you saw on! In your mind if it wasn't for Sharpshooter, there wouldn't be any DI's if they don't fit into your little box that you have made for yourself, there are no DI's, so be it, Alan says there are no DI's how can we even question that!

Think about how long people like you, have been saying prove it. Look the whole thing with the DI thing is that it is driven by a bunch of fiction!

In recent weeks, it has been proven to me once again, that nobody wants to admit that they are a loser, when it comes to playing craps, after getting two very conflicting reports about a trip report!

So with that said we do what an open discussion dice control, but we want to hear the real things that happened!

It's time that the casinos take a real look at what happens when the dice hit the tables, and the great fiction writers just craw into a hole a disappear! We are fed up with all of the fiction they write, it's costing the casinos money and they are running off good players that are just tired of getting hassled by them. Now that there are slow motion videos out there all casinos should look at them!

Slow motion videos of dice shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag

Now it only took me a few minutes to find these links! But Alan,.. I can't go on doing your work for you, spend some time using a few of the search engines, your be surprised that all the information and come up with!

http://forum.alanbestbuys.com/archive/index.php/t-1712.html?s=f831cb99578748521bf86599d6c84a09

http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/no-setting-dice-at-montego-bay-casino-in-wendover-nv.3754/

https://www.dicecoach.com/coachcornermar09.asp

I think that Ahigh spoke for all of us when he said this.

Quote: Ahigh

You brought up the question. You got the answer. I've been to almost every craps table in Vegas. Just curious, can you name off the list of casinos with craps tables that you have been to? If it's easier list the ones you haven't been to.

I can't think of a single craps table in the greater Las Vegas area that I haven't been to. The only one I haven't played on is the Westin that I can think of and I've been there twice and it wasn't open.

I think the thing that is being said, Alan, is that you come across as knowing things, but you have a keyhole view into the craps world known as Caesar's Palace.

DI really stands for:

Dedicated Imagination.

Superrick:

This is starting to get absurd. You are another of the players who claims to be a dice influencer. I have been told that you are a member of the group of DIs who doesn't want any heat from the casinos.

secondly, I don't think any of the videos on the internet show what I would consider to be a controlled or "DI shot."

What is going on here? Why the diversionary tactics?

And for everyone else: there is nothing illegal about trying to get the numbers you want (provided the conditions of a proper throw are met) and if craps is indeed a random game it doesn't hurt to try. And I am sorry for blowing the cover of the secret handshake dice influencing society.

You guys who claim to be DIs are going to a lot of effort to try to convince everyone there is no such thing. Wow.

ALAN




If all you say is true, then why did the trop in Laughlin not allow me to play if i was going to set the dice for 2 years.
then this year throwing differently and making a good deal of money welcoming me back.

If all you say is true then why did Keshena Wis casino ban dice setting for 2 years.

If all you say is true then why does the pit boss at Aquarius holler at me when i play

Why do the pit bosses at a number of casino's pay more attention while a dice setter throws
than they do a drunk.

NOne of this nonsense is because we win to much or to often.

You say there is nothing wrong with trying..... i agree with you.. but then after you try, many places
you get BS. I am not going to buy a $48,000 fishing boat only to be told i cant fish my favorite lake
because my boat it to big.

Just imagine is some player came on here tomorrow with a set a video's that proved anyone could beat
the casino with dice control..... no doubt, no bs just 100% proof....

where is that guy going to play tomorrow, and any one else that throws like that.

Your living in a dream world.


dicesetter

Quote: AlanMendelson

Superrick:

This is starting to get absurd. You are another of the players who claims to be a dice influencer. I have been told that you are a member of the group of DIs who doesn't want any heat from the casinos.

secondly, I don't think any of the videos on the internet show what I would consider to be a controlled or "DI shot."

What is going on here? Why the diversionary tactics?

And for everyone else: there is nothing illegal about trying to get the numbers you want (provided the conditions of a proper throw are met) and if craps is indeed a random game it doesn't hurt to try. And I am sorry for blowing the cover of the secret handshake dice influencing society.

You guys who claim to be DIs are going to a lot of effort to try to convince everyone there is no such thing. Wow.

What's absurd here is the fact that you think we own it to you to prove that there are DI's and the fact that most wouldn't even fall into your little box that you built, around your hero Sharpshooter!

There no diversionary tactics, I've showed you videos, and you have said that they are not from a controlled shooter, who are you to sit in judgment, you have said many times that you have only seen one so-called DI in your narrow minded opinion!

What we are showing is that there is so much fiction out there that it's not even funny, these schools use it to sell what they are teaching, it wouldn't be on their boards if it didn't serve that purpose! You evidently are just like everybody else. You don't want to see the real picture. Why don't you ask sharpshooter to make a video, oh that's right I've been told he retired from playing craps!

You just don't get it do you , you have a warped sense of what a DI should be! We are tired of seeing the game being really ruined by nothing but fiction writers! It has nothing to do with us, there never should have been what you call the secret handshake dice influencing society! They coined those words to sell their junk, to unsuspecting craps players that had money to burn!

They allow it to go on to keep selling their junk! I have no problem with any school that teaches shooting and good betting, that does not allow fiction to be written on their board, I think that everybody that plays the game should have a good understanding of what its all about, and how to bet where you may stand a good chance of winning from time to time!

The only thing you are doing is saying, that a DI has to show you that they can do what they say the can do, and you refuse to accept the fact, that there are no DI that is going to do that!

Why don't you take a course in becoming a DI, so you can see first hand what it would take, to try to become one, do you have thousands of hours to spare so that you can practice, do you have a real table or two so you can you can practice on?

I wouldn't even go so far as saying that there are any DI's that the casinos have to worry about. I know a lot of them, and I will tell you the truth about them, they can't win every time they hit the casinos.

Now the sad fact is some of these guys will not admit that they too lose, they are just like everybody else, they don't want to be called a loser!

Yes,.. there are days when a DI can't do anything wrong, but there are more days when they can't do anything right! They lose just like anybody else. If you don't like what I'm telling you, then you should just head back to Caesars, and keep your fantasy vision of what a DI is!

It's about time that the truth came out about those now famous words, they coined to sell becoming what they called a DI. There has always been shooters that do better they all the other shooters on the tables, and that has been going on since they made craps in the casinos legal.

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a DI until one of my now buddies told me that there were shooters that they were calling DI's, back then everybody was just shooters, we all bet on anybody that was getting lucky. Now days these different schools have told their students that they can't bet on anybody but themselves! If they bet on these so-called random rollers they are going to stay in the craps shooters purgatory forever! One of the great fiction writers even call his book the craps shooters Bible!

We don't owe you a thing Alan, we are telling it like it is, if you don't want to except it, I don't know what to tell you!

Quote: dicesitter

ALAN




If all you say is true, then why did the trop in Laughlin not allow me to play if i was going to set the dice for 2 years.
then this year throwing differently and making a good deal of money welcoming me back.

If all you say is true then why did Keshena Wis casino ban dice setting for 2 years.

If all you say is true then why does the pit boss at Aquarius holler at me when i play

Why do the pit bosses at a number of casino's pay more attention while a dice setter throws
than they do a drunk.

NOne of this nonsense is because we win to much or to often.

You say there is nothing wrong with trying..... i agree with you.. but then after you try, many places
you get BS. I am not going to buy a $48,000 fishing boat only to be told i cant fish my favorite lake
because my boat it to big.

Just imagine is some player came on here tomorrow with a set a video's that proved anyone could beat
the casino with dice control..... no doubt, no bs just 100% proof....

where is that guy going to play tomorrow, and any one else that throws like that.

Your living in a dream world.


dicesetter

Now we're getting somewhere. So you admit youre a DI -- finally.

That's all I was asking.

I just wanted to know why you are a DI privately but on this forum you say it doesn't work.

I suggest that you play in different casinos -- Caesars for example. Even the Gold Strike in Jean will let you set and use a controlled throw.

If you'd like me to query the casinos that have given you trouble -- as I did with the Bellagio -- I will.

Alan



I love this crap. when i came on here i gave some numbers to Ahigh and was accused of
making them up, and caught hell from a number of others that suggested that anyone that
seemed to do ok was a fraud or a fake. I sure as hell was not thought of as a DI.

After i get fed up with the BS, both on here and the tables, now all of a sudden i must be a
DI.

I need to go practice, i my better than i think.

Alan lets just go play and have fun.

Dicesetter

Alan



I love this crap. when i came on here i gave some numbers to Ahigh and was accused of
making them up, and caught hell from a number of others that suggested that anyone that
seemed to do ok was a fraud or a fake. I sure as hell was not thought of as a DI.

After i get fed up with the BS, both on here and the tables, now all of a sudden i must be a
DI.

I need to go practice, i may be better than i think.

Alan lets just go play and have fun.

Dicesetter