How do you measure success or ability for dice influencing?

If you believe in dice control or dice influencing, how can you tell a shooter can influence or control the dice? What are your determining factors?

If you don't believe in dice control or dice influencing, what would you have to see to be convinced that a shooter can influence or control the dice?

Is it winnings? The number of rolls in a "hand" on a consistent basis? Being banned from multiple casinos? Or do you measure dice influencing by how the dice are thrown and perform when released?

And how does your "deciding factor" compare to players of other sports? For example, a great hitter in baseball has a 300 batting average -- 30% of the time he gets a hit. If a craps shooter made a good number (a hit) 30% of the time would you consider him to be "great" and a DI?

# of books sold.

There should be a choice for "in inches" :D

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My point.

Of course, you can't find DI books in the fiction section where they belong.

Consistently throwing fewer sevens after the point is established. Perhaps consistently throwing more sevens on the come out roll.

The keyword here is consistently. I wouldn't mind verifying DI through observation, but having a few good rolls is not it. We've all had a few good rolls now and then with plenty of sevens.

Let's say over 360 throws of the dice you expect about 60 sevens. This can happen exaxtly, but you can still have a few good rolls if the sevens appear mostly on the come out. This wouldn't even be too rare or unusual. Say you establish a five, then throw three numbers, then the point, then a seven on the come out. That's one seven in six rolls.

Do Di's bet when not throwing.
If not betting on other shooters, great restraint and respect from me.
If a DI bets while not throwing, just another gambler betting on a negative EV game, no respect from me and probabbly no DI.

Do DI's just play empty tables, seems like that would be a requirement.

You evaluate someone for dice setting skills by seeing how they spend their time shooting dice rather than talking about shooting dice.
Playing at a five dollar table a dice setter can make more money than he can selling seminars or books about dice setting, so its a situation of those who can, do.... and those who can't... talk about and sell lessons about it.

So if dice sitters exist, you can be sure that you can see them but not hear them.

Quote: terapined

Do Di's bet when not throwing.

I've heard many DIs bet the don't when not throwing.

One time at the MSS, this man and woman were betting the don't. When it was the woman's turn to shoot, they switched to the pass line. For a moment I thought they were doing DI. What the woman does, though is carefully sets the dice, takes them into her palm, shakes them and lets them fly so hard I thought she was trying to drill through the back wall (one die nearly made it back to our side of the table).

But then suppose DI is real and some people can do it consistently (at least on some days). If they either start beting don't when not shooting and pass when shooting, or not betting at all unless it's their turn, it will be a short time before the casino figures it out.

Perhaps the best strategy would be to find a nearly empty table, ride out one or two "natural" shotoers and then shoot once and leave?