move the dice
Quote: AlanMendelsonYouve made comments before about certain "dice boards" and I've asked you to list them. You never have. Care to now?
http://www.crapsforum.com/
A good board.
Balanced.
Quote: MrVhttp://www.crapsforum.com/
A good board.
Balanced.
A good balanced craps forum would have 50% knowing dice control is not possible and 50% having no interest in the idea.
ZCore13
That would be balanced, just like MSNBC!Quote: Zcore13A good balanced craps forum would have 50% knowing dice control is not possible and 50% having no interest in the idea.
ZCore13
Quote: DeMangoMore Extreme Garbage. Your foundation Frequencies are all important. Knowing those, then you pick a set that has the number distribution you seek. For example if you throw more double pitches than normal you may use an all sevens set to avoid the seven, instead of the hardway set. Your deviation from normal is paramount and SRR is merely a measurement of a set, not necessarily the set you will use.
Isn't a double pitch with an "all sevens" set still a seven?
Quote: petroglyphIsn't a double pitch with an "all sevens" set still a seven?
No the result would be a pair.
Quote: DeMangoNo the result would be a pair.
Whoops, brain gas all day today
Quote: DeMangoYour foundation Frequencies are all important. Knowing those, then you pick a set that has the number distribution you seek.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a fallacy. You're assuming your results will continue without knowing why that should be the case. And you're not even counting the results properly, as evidenced by your definition of "on axis" or "double pitch." You believe that if you use the all-sevens set, and the dice bounce off someone's shirt and land with a hard 6, that should count as a "double pitch" -- correct?
Quote: MathExtremistYou believe that if you use the all-sevens set, and the dice bounce off someone's shirt and land with a hard 6, that should count as a "double pitch" -- correct?
Exactly! $50 and down for my $5 hard six. It counts exactly the way the casino counts it. I know that's extremely hard for you to understand, you probably have an extreme amount of wood in between the ears.
Quote: DeMangoExactly! $50 and down for my $5 hard six. It counts exactly the way the casino counts it. I know that's extremely hard for you to understand, you probably have an extreme amount of wood in between the ears.
That answer tells you everything needed about someone who thinks they have control of the dice.
ZCore13
Quote: MathExtremistYou believe that if you use the all-sevens set, and the dice bounce off someone's shirt and land with a hard 6, that should count as a "double pitch" -- correct?
Quote: DeMangoExactly! $50 and down for my $5 hard six. It counts exactly the way the casino counts it.
Yeah, because you meant to do that. When you're at home with your practice dice table, do you have the same guy standing at the end wearing the same shirt so you can practice your off-the-shirt tosses?
It's clear that the roll counts as a hard six, but it's also clear that that particular hard six is absolutely no indication whatsoever of your alleged ability to influence the dice. You didn't mean for the dice to bounce off someone's shirt. As Zcore13 noted, the fact that you would consider such a result to be relevant w.r.t. skilled shooting is very illuminating. You completely fail to distinguish between luck and skill -- between the hard sixes that occur randomly 1/36 of the time (such as by bouncing off someone's shirt) and the hard sixes that occur when you properly execute your throws. That failure renders your conclusions meaningless. How can you possibly say, with a straight face, that bouncing the dice off someone's shirt is an indicator of your skill?
Fortunately the casino counts slop shots when they pay off bets. It's not like billiards where you have to call the shot or it doesn't count. But in your case, where your goal is apparently to discern between getting lucky and having skill, you're still counting slop shots as if you had something to do with them. That's as useful as counting throws by someone else altogether.
We all know you don't believe in DI, but why post the same thing over and over on every DI thread. Just ignore them.Quote: Zcore13A good balanced craps forum would have 50% knowing dice control is not possible and 50% having no interest in the idea.
ZCore13
Quote: JB85We all know you don't believe in DI, but why post the same thing over and over on every DI thread. Just ignore them.
The same reason the DI people keep posting the same nonsense. Most of us our hopeful that at some point, statistics, logic, intelligence, video proof and reliable data will win out over pretending, illogical conclusions and magical theories.
ZCore13
Quote: JB85We all know you don't believe in DI, but why post the same thing over and over on every DI thread. Just ignore them.
Without people like Zcore13, and the likes of MrV every discussion would be very boring. They ask the questions that you would never ask, everything would be a one way conversation.
Let’s take a look at this one:
Quote: AlanMendelsonThis is probably the most important point that everyone should understand:
All of you folks with practice rigs and home tables: you can have the highest SRRs in the universe but if you are not hitting the numbers you bet on, and if you don't hit them enough to cover your original outlay and put a profit in your rail, you will lose.
I say the same thing, your SRR doesn’t mean a thing, because most players only use what they do at home, they have no other players on their practice rig, they have no money at risk, and everything is always the same when they are practicing. They never take into consideration those short rolls that they had, that was added into their SRR to come up with it.
Everybody forget why there is even such a thing as a DI, if it wasn’t for someone trying to sell other craps players something you would never have anybody using what they call an SRR. It was coined to sell you something, and it worked, they sold books based on becoming a DI, they sell classes on becoming one, and there is so much fiction written about it, that it could be considered cottage industry, and this is all coming from someone they call a DI.
The only difference is I know for a fact that I can’t go into a casino every time and win, I also know that what you guys are calling your signature numbers can and will change when you go into a casino, and if you don’t change how you are betting you will walk out a loser!I see way to many guys that say they have an SRR of 7 or 8 doing one thing and that is losing, because they think they have an advantage when playing craps, and they have taking bad advice from some great fiction writer on the game of craps. They start out making larger bets then they should have, and keep chasing their money as it goes down the drain.
They refuse to bet on what they are rolling, because they have been lead to believe that they should only bet on their signature numbers, they never figure that the table is different and the dice are different! These same guys will never bet on anybody but themselves, because they know that all so-called random rollers will always have those short little rolls that will kill any craps players, even after the same shooter just had two back to back 50 rolls, their chips will stay in their racks. Then they will go back to the craps board they post on and tell everybody how they resisted betting on the damn random roller that that had not one or two but three rolls over 50 rolls of the dice, and everybody will pat them on their back for not being so stupid as betting on anybody that gets on a roll!
I often wonder what happened to all those guys that took all those classes, and are never to be seen again on the craps tables, was it all that great advice that made them stop playing, or the lack of practice, or just the fact they are playing a negative game!
If you all followed one of the great fiction writers on the game of craps you would be doubling up your bank roll every month you played craps, I just can’t understand why I don’t read about all of his followers doing just what he writes!
Even with everything I wrote, I still think it’s a good idea that players will take a class, and read everything they can get their hands on about the game of craps. If the class they take teaches good betting skills and the books they are reading teaches good betting skills and have all the math they need to understand the game. Then even if they do read some of the great fiction that is out there, if they know that it’s just fiction and are reading it for entrainment value, there is nothing wrong in that!
You have to be able to look at someones ideas that are not on the same side as you are, to make sense out of anything! Does it work or doesn't it work, it all depends on who you listen too. I give credit to the guys like Stanford Wong, that after writing a book on becoming a DI, has said hey wait a minute, after looking at slow-motion video, I may have been wrong!
...
Quote: AhighLOL. One down anyway.
I will admit I hate admitting when I lose. HATE IT.
Oh well.
We all lose. But when we win, we win big.
Quote: DeMangoOh good! A genius came to my rescue!
I got' char' back, sir.
I agree as in everything, people should get as much info as possible. Read books, take seminars(which can be costly).
However should they be told up front what the chances are of them being successful. How many people out of 1000 can actualy pull it off (assuming that it CAN be pulled off).
If I am a hardworking guy with a wife and kid, and spend time working and with my family, and just want a way to make a few extra bucks for my family....well this enterprise does not seem like it would be for me...knowing ahead of time that I would have to devote hundreds and hundreds of hours into it and still not be garunteed any success. But if I knew this ahead of time I wouldnt pay 2k for a seminar. I have a feeling this piece of info is withheld.
In my opinion...
1)If DI can be pulled off, but only by a tiny percentage....then the people making money on seminars and books should be telling people ahead of time the realistic expectations and the practice time required after the book and seminar is over. Is there a disclaimer for seminars warning people with parkonson disease, or people taking medications that cause tremors that success in unatainable for them? Are the people told what super rick says that success at home is meaningless since you dont have chips all over the table, a stick man to your left partially blocking you, and a loudmouth guy to your right with varying heights, lengths and srping to the table when you get to a casino. If the people making money off this are not honest about the above....THEN they are just selling false hope
2)- If Di cant be pulled off...then they are just snake oil salespeople.
If someone says "look at me I can successfully influence dice"......but fails to say that it took them 10 years of full time play to get to this position.....cant expect the average joe with a job to get to that point. And the average joe who doesnt ask...."how long did it take you to be able to accomplish it"......before writing a check for 2k.....is an idiot.
Quote: LarrySsuperrick, you seem to have pro view but yet realistic view of DI,
I agree as in everything, people should get as much info as possible. Read books, take seminars(which can be costly).
However should they be told up front what the chances are of them being successful. How many people out of 1000 can actualy pull it off (assuming that it CAN be pulled off).
If I am a hardworking guy with a wife and kid, and spend time working and with my family, and just want a way to make a few extra bucks for my family....well this enterprise does not seem like it would be for me...knowing ahead of time that I would have to devote hundreds and hundreds of hours into it and still not be garunteed any success. But if I knew this ahead of time I wouldnt pay 2k for a seminar. I have a feeling this piece of info is withheld.
In my opinion...
1)If DI can be pulled off, but only by a tiny percentage....then the people making money on seminars and books should be telling people ahead of time the realistic expectations and the practice time required after the book and seminar is over. Is there a disclaimer for seminars warning people with parkonson disease, or people taking medications that cause tremors that success in unatainable for them? Are the people told what super rick says that success at home is meaningless since you dont have chips all over the table, a stick man to your left partially blocking you, and a loudmouth guy to your right with varying heights, lengths and srping to the table when you get to a casino. If the people making money off this are not honest about the above....THEN they are just selling false hope
2)- If Di cant be pulled off...then they are just snake oil salespeople.
If someone says "look at me I can successfully influence dice"......but fails to say that it took them 10 years of full time play to get to this position.....cant expect the average joe with a job to get to that point. And the average joe who doesnt ask...."how long did it take you to be able to accomplish it"......before writing a check for 2k.....is an idiot.
There is only one very simple answer to this thread post, and that is this:
1) By knowing that there are 6 ways to roll a seven in any random shoot. (Shaking dice in hand and tossing them to the back wall), start with setting dice to decrease the possibilities of rolling a 7.
I put the 5's together and also the 4's together and just toss them. it's easy.
Time is instantly on your side and you are recognized as a good shooter overnight. (No training needed)
Quote: CrapsGenious
I put the 5's together and also the 4's together and just toss them. it's easy.
Time is instantly on your side and you are recognized as a good shooter overnight. (No training needed)
Now that cnfirms my idea about the "precsion" of DI
Quote: CrapsGeniousThere is only one very simple answer to this thread post, and that is this:
1) By knowing that there are 6 ways to roll a seven in any random shoot. (Shaking dice in hand and tossing them to the back wall), start with setting dice to decrease the possibilities of rolling a 7.
I put the 5's together and also the 4's together and just toss them. it's easy.
Time is instantly on your side and you are recognized as a good shooter overnight. (No training needed)
Please tell me you're not serious???
Quote: Zcore13Please tell me you're not serious???
It's a hell of a lot better than wasting time watching 13 shooters at the table PSO because they like to shake the dice in their hands.
ZCore13
never understood how easy this is.
All i have to do is put the 5's and the 4's together throw...
ok lets try.
9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9,9
wow
that was easy i will never lose again.
Next year we will have 2 training sessions one in Vegas and 1 in Atlantic City
It is only $195 per class because the class only takes 6 minutes.
I was hoping to find a second career now that i retired
Dicesetter CTMTMPLS
Even got letters after my name
they mean course that makes the mad professor look sensible
Quote: CrapsGeniousThere is only one very simple answer to this thread post, and that is this:
1) By knowing that there are 6 ways to roll a seven in any random shoot. (Shaking dice in hand and tossing them to the back wall), start with setting dice to decrease the possibilities of rolling a 7.
I put the 5's together and also the 4's together and just toss them. it's easy.
Time is instantly on your side and you are recognized as a good shooter overnight. (No training needed)
Now this is coming from a guy that says he is always hitting the fire bet, so it must be true,...Right!
Quote: Zcore13Please tell me you're not serious???
Come on does anybody take this guy serious? Remember he only has 8 years to perfect becoming a so-called DI. Then it will become part of his retirement benefits!
I must say that he does give me a good laugh every time I read one of is post!
I think he should give us a running count of how many days he has left before his retirement, that way we will all have something to look forward to when that glorious day comes the CrapsGenious!
...
Quote: superrickNow this is coming from a guy that says he is always hitting the fire bet, so it must be true,...Right!
Come on does anybody take this guy serious? Remember he only has 8 years to perfect becoming a so-called DI. Then it will become part of his retirement benefits!
I must say that he does give me a good laugh every time I read one of is post!
I think he should give us a running count of how many days he has left before his retirement, that way we will all have something to look forward to when that glorious day comes the CrapsGenious!
...
One day I will meet up with you in Canada and i'll give you a couple "free" lessons so you don't have to go to AC or Vegas to learn.
Quote: superrickI think he should give us a running count of how many days he has left before his retirement, that way we will all have something to look forward to when that glorious day comes the CrapsGenious!
If he keeps playing craps, that number is going to be counting up, not down...
Quote: CrapsGeniousOne day I will meet up with you in Canada and i'll give you a couple "free" lessons so you don't have to go to AC or Vegas to learn.
Thanks Crapsgenious I needed a good laugh today but then again you seem to give me one everyday with your post on the different boards. I must say that you keep things stirred up and I like all the stuff that you come up with, although I would not agree on most of stuff, but to each his own!
Unfortunately I don't think I would need your lessons seeing how I help out some of the DI's with their shooting and betting, when they are in Vegas, I happen to live in the Vegas Valley! Here you can look at the setup we have for practice our shooting and betting. There are a few videos in this link, that was shot helping out two DI's with their shooting.
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/sutra6185.php&sid=8d9118526c6ad3d0ca4cba0030e2fda5#6185
No, I do not have a school or teach shooting, but I do help out some of the guys that are on the boards when they come into Vegas for free! I know some of the best DI's in the country and from time to time will go to the tables with them.
Still and all, I tell it like it is, and that is no DI can win all the time and that most of the stuff you read on of these DI boards are nothing but great fiction!
So, how many days do you have to your retirement, inquiring minds want to know?
...
uperrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
Quote: superrickThanks Crapsgenious I needed a good laugh today but then again you seem to give me one everyday with your post on the different boards. I must say that you keep things stirred up and I like all the stuff that you come up with, although I would not agree on most of stuff, but to each his own!
Unfortunately I don't think I would need your lessons seeing how I help out some of the DI's with their shooting and betting, when they are in Vegas, I happen to live in the Vegas Valley! Here you can look at the setup we have for practice our shooting and betting. There are a few videos in this link, that was shot helping out two DI's with their shooting.
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/sutra6185.php&sid=8d9118526c6ad3d0ca4cba0030e2fda5#6185
No, I do not have a school or teach shooting, but I do help out some of the guys that are on the boards when they come into Vegas for free! I know some of the best DI's in the country and from time to time will go to the tables with them.
Still and all, I tell it like it is, and that is no DI can win all the time and that most of the stuff you read on of these DI boards are nothing but great fiction!
So, how many days do you have to your retirement, inquiring minds want to know?
...
What is that casino called? the one on fremont street just passed the dome, cross a quick side street and its on the corner, as soon as you enter the place there is a craps table right there and the bar is just to the right.
Quote: CrapsGeniousWhat is that casino called? the one on fremont street just passed the dome, cross a quick side street and its on the corner, as soon as you enter the place there is a craps table right there and the bar is just to the right.
Just go on google earth and look at streetview and you can answer your own question, because your description just doesn't get it!
Quote: superrickJust go on google earth and look at streetview and you can answer your own question, because your description just doesn't get it!
Now I'm curious. I'll guess the California, although that's not on Fremont. Another possibility would be the always-delightful El Cortez.
Quote: gpac1377Now I'm curious. I'll guess the California, although that's not on Fremont. Another possibility would be the always-delightful El Cortez.
El Cortez sounds like it. It's an old hotel/casino. I had a ton of fun there playing the don't pass all afternoon. it was a $1.00 minimum table. I bought in with $20.00 and tipped the waitress $1.00 each time she brought me a jack n' coke. Left the casino around midnight feeling pretty "drunk" on the cheap.
I love that casino, was the very first craps table I've ever played that was just $1.00 minimum.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I love the DI's fighting each other over who can make money influencing the dice and who can't. It's hilarious. Takes me back to the "my dad can beat up your dad" arguments in grade school. Same result with both arguments. Neither is going to happen.
ZCore13
With all the students that they pumped out over the years, by now you would have to think that they would have destroyed the game of craps and the casinos would of done away with it! DI's are like anybody else craps table, sometimes they win sometimes they lose!
Go back and read the trip reports for when there's was a school in Vegas or any other place. One time they have nothing to report about their great winning trip, and next time they can't say enough about how much they won, sounds just like any other craps player doesn't it?
Quote: Zcore13I love the DI's fighting each other over who can make money influencing the dice and who can't. It's hilarious. Takes me back to the "my dad can beat up your dad" arguments in grade school. Same result with both arguments. Neither is going to happen.
ZCore13
Hey, as long as we can all agree that I am the greatest most consistent dice shooter on the planet, everyone will be happy and get along. :P
Quote: CrapsGeniousHey, as long as we can all agree that I am the greatest most consistent dice shooter on the planet, everyone will be happy and get along. :P
That's fine as long as we don't have to watch you shoot, you can be anything you want to be!I'm sure we all Believe You, if you say your the best then what the hell, we don't have to bet on you!
Quote: superrickThat's fine as long as we don't have to watch you shoot, you can be anything you want to be!I'm sure we all Believe You, if you say your the best then what the hell, we don't have to bet on you!
No we need another live broadcast of random dice throwing. Maybe a weekly show. Oh, and if someone could hide their face or wear a mask we could really have fun. No, no, no, kind of a hidden camera show where the shooter then goes to casinos and gives them advice and gaming equipment.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13No we need another live broadcast of random dice throwing. Maybe a weekly show. Oh, and if someone could hide their face or wear a mask we could really have fun. No, no, no, kind of a hidden camera show where the shooter then goes to casinos and gives them advice and gaming equipment.
ZCore13
I need to get one of those "Button Cams" to put on my shirt or maybe someone from the forum will drop by to record my shooting this weekend or on a regular weekend basis and post the podcasts on here.
Hey when you're good , you're good, it's just the recording process we need to work on now.
Quote: superrickWith all the students that they pumped out over the years, by now you would have to think that they would have destroyed the game of craps and the casinos would of done away with it! DI's are like anybody else craps table, sometimes they win sometimes they lose!
The vast, vast, vast majority are dreamers, not do-ers. The question is how many of those students are going to stick with this? It's not something you're gonna learn in a weekend. There are also classes in card counting, but that doesn't help if you don't do the homework, does it? There are still beatable Blackjack games because the casinos aren't being over run with counters. Beat the Dealer came out in 1962, and the level of play hasn't improved one iota since then. I have never sat down at any Blackjack table anywhere, at any time, and not seen multiple serious basic strategy errors. Most haven't even bothered learning basic.
They'll never do away with craps. If worst comes to worst, they'll put the dice in a cage and have the stickman shake 'em.
Quote: ImpmonThe vast, vast, vast majority are dreamers, not do-ers. The question is how many of those students are going to stick with this? It's not something you're gonna learn in a weekend. There are also classes in card counting, but that doesn't help if you don't do the homework, does it? There are still beatable Blackjack games because the casinos aren't being over run with counters. Beat the Dealer came out in 1962, and the level of play hasn't improved one iota since then. I have never sat down at any Blackjack table anywhere, at any time, and not seen multiple serious basic strategy errors. Most haven't even bothered learning basic.
They'll never do away with craps. If worst comes to worst, they'll put the dice in a cage and have the stickman shake 'em.
They already have that "Bubble Craps" video terminals with better payouts but no dealers.
Quote: Zcore13I love the DI's fighting each other over who can make money influencing the dice and who can't. It's hilarious. Takes me back to the "my dad can beat up your dad" arguments in grade school. Same result with both arguments. Neither is going to happen.
ZCore13
hey, many times a DI at the table will PSO but in the long haul, we all make money from each other. No one says we have to like each other. No one ever wants to admit it.
I myself PSO on occasion and players tend to lose quite a bit more than normal because they rely on my "hot" shooter attitude. I also know deep inside they hate my guts when I PSO, But they are my best friend when I "make those numbers"
Bottom line is DI's exist and may have a bad day, but in the long haul, we profit from 100% of them.
