Much like Santa Ana Star Casino in NM, Sandia Casino has apparently introduced "No Vig Craps"
April 15th, 2012 at 10:12:52 AM
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I heard on a local radio station that Sandia Casino, near Albuquerque, NM has introduced what I believe they are calling "No Vig Craps." They stated that they are offering free Buy bets on the 4 and 10, much like Santa Ana Star Casino offers, near Bernalillo, NM. I have yet to confirm it, and don't know of any, if at all, particulars. However, I will try to get out there later this week to see what the story is. This would be very nice to Albuquerque residents, as it is a shorter drive (albeit, neither is too long) than to Bernalillo.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 15th, 2012 at 12:57:38 PM
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Love the idea that competition can actually be making this happen.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
April 15th, 2012 at 2:26:09 PM
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I played craps for an hour on this past Friday(13th) at Sandia.
They were still paying 9:5 on the 4&10 place bets with buying allowed at $20.
Hopefully it happens soon so they are more competitive with Route 66 and Santa Ana Star which both have free buys on the 4&10 at $5.
They were still paying 9:5 on the 4&10 place bets with buying allowed at $20.
Hopefully it happens soon so they are more competitive with Route 66 and Santa Ana Star which both have free buys on the 4&10 at $5.
I don't know everything but I know a lot.
April 15th, 2012 at 2:40:25 PM
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Nice to hear the Route 66 has the free Buy bet, as well. I don't do much gambling in Albuquerque, thus, I was unaware of the free Buy bet there, as well, at $5.00. I will try to find out as soon as I can. Want to say the commercial ran, either Friday evening, or Saturday evening.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 15th, 2012 at 3:39:50 PM
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$5 limit!!??! i never knew there was a limit.
hey wiz, you might want to update your wizardofodds craps page to say vig free 4/10 is $5 max.
hey wiz, you might want to update your wizardofodds craps page to say vig free 4/10 is $5 max.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
April 15th, 2012 at 4:30:25 PM
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Quote: 100xOdds$5 limit!!??! i never knew there was a limit.
hey wiz, you might want to update your wizardofodds craps page to say vig free 4/10 is $5 max.
The website has not been updated to indicate that there is now a limit:
Enjoy the best odds in New Mexico including free buy on the four and 10, the best prop bets in the US and 10X odds!
The table has the words free buy stenciled on to the 4 and 10.
The video says that a 2 or a 12 on the field bet pays 3:1, so there is no house advantage on that bet either. I presume that bet is also limited to $5.
So you could make a free field bet, a free buy on the 4/10, and 10x odds on the pass or don't pass line. That's a lot of action with no house advantage.
April 15th, 2012 at 5:39:35 PM
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I've heard it takes alot to get those moribund, manana-oriented casinos to do anything.Quote: pacomartinThat's a lot of action with no house advantage.
April 15th, 2012 at 6:40:25 PM
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I don't think anyone has ever stated there was a limit of $5.00 on the free Buy bet. I think we're all just looking to get the bet for the lowest possible price our bankroll can handle. I know that I don't want to start off with anything more than $5, even at a fair bet. I know that I have increased my Buy bet at Santa Ana, and still had the free Buy bet.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 15th, 2012 at 6:54:43 PM
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Ok so... they have a free buy on the 4/10 but only on $5 bets.
Can someone tell me what they give you if you just say "Give me a 4 and 10". I'm wondering if you have to explicitly state "buy" or they just assume that you're placing it for a 9:5 payout.
Can someone tell me what they give you if you just say "Give me a 4 and 10". I'm wondering if you have to explicitly state "buy" or they just assume that you're placing it for a 9:5 payout.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
April 15th, 2012 at 7:33:54 PM
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A buy bet should always have the word "buy" used by the bettor and the dealer should use a "buy" lammer.
April 15th, 2012 at 8:52:09 PM
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Quote: ahiromuOk so... they have a free buy on the 4/10 but only on $5 bets.
Let us review that, to my knowledge, no one has stated there is a limit of $5 on the free Buy of the 4 and 10. One only needs to review klimate10's post to see he was betting $250 on each of the numbers, at least, at Santa Ana. I know that I have placed Buy bets of $10 on each the 4 and 10 and had them pay $20. I will try to assess the particulars at Sandia, later this week. It is also good to know that Route 66 is also offering the free Buy bet.
Quote: ahiromoCan someone tell me what they give you if you just say "Give me a 4 and 10". I'm wondering if you have to explicitly state "buy" or they just assume that you're placing it for a 9:5 payout.
I will not dispute FleaStiff, as I know he is correct. However, at Santa Ana I have said just that, "Give me the 4 and 10" and been paid 2:1 when the bet came in.
Also, someone had asked about the Field bet. I don't play it, but saw some young-uns playing it for more than $5 and getting paid with no house advantage. Too much action for me, what with a decision made on every roll. It's bad enough I was playing the Pass Line along with the Buy bet.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 15th, 2012 at 9:29:56 PM
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Quote: bushman
Also, someone had asked about the Field bet.
I don't play it, but saw some young-uns playing it for more than $5 and getting paid with no house advantage.
Too much action for me, what with a decision made on every roll.
do you know how many craps players are suffering
field bets costing 2.78% or 5.56% on their local tables?!
the field is a zero edge bet in these NM casinos.
how in the world is a zero edge bet too much action?
i would be in heaven if i could make zero edge bets all day.
you do not have to make the bet on every roll.
you can opt to just make it occasionally and still have the zero edge.
for the sake of all of us, please throw a nickel out every once in a while?
i know it can be exhausting bending down to pick up those chips but you can do it!
thanks
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
April 15th, 2012 at 9:59:50 PM
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I misread about the $5 thing, just yeah misread it.
If I can make my way down there I would really like the free 4/10, it's my favorite way to play. Back during a day trip to Vegas I was down a grand and it brought me back to more manageable losses. I can't play it locally because we always pay the vig. and that just pisses me off.
If I can make my way down there I would really like the free 4/10, it's my favorite way to play. Back during a day trip to Vegas I was down a grand and it brought me back to more manageable losses. I can't play it locally because we always pay the vig. and that just pisses me off.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
April 15th, 2012 at 10:44:50 PM
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Well thank you, but in reality there is always some "slop" in a craps game and while it is quite correct that a player should say "buy" when he means "buy" and a dealer should acknowledge the word "buy" with the word "buy" or "bought", we all know some slack always creeps into the procedures.Quote: bushman
I will not dispute FleaStiff, as I know he is correct. However, at Santa Ana I have said just that, "Give me the 4 and 10" and been paid 2:1 when the bet came in.
Its the same thing as when a player says 'odds on my Don't' but the dealer actually makes a LAY bet because the math is better for the player.
What is desirable is precision and often what is practicable is a bit less so often a player will say "give me" and the dealer will choose between a place bet and a buy bet according to the math and the player's obvious intent to have bought the 4 and 10 commission free than to have merely placed them.
Its the same way with those "buy" lammers... often they do not get positioned but the bets still get paid off as buy bets.
Its not quite the precise communication that would be desired but its about as close as "real world" situations permit.
April 15th, 2012 at 10:56:11 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffIts the same thing as when a player says 'odds on my Don't' but the dealer actually makes a LAY bet because the math is better for the player.
When is this ever the case? Those laid odds get paid true/fair odds for each number (1:2, 2:3, 5:6 on the 4&10, 5&9, 6&8 respectively). The lay bet would pay the same exact odds, minus the vig. But I'm pretty tired.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
April 16th, 2012 at 2:14:41 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsWhen is this ever the case? Those laid odds get paid true/fair odds for each number (1:2, 2:3, 5:6 on the 4&10, 5&9, 6&8 respectively). The lay bet would pay the same exact odds, minus the vig. But I'm pretty tired.
I'll cover it. (A bit off-topic, but just to follow up on FleaStiff's comment) Clearly, laying odds against your Don't must be a better deal than lay-betting against box numbers, since the Don't @ e.v. = -1.4% + odds laid @ e.v. = 0% must combine to some e.v. << 1%, whereas (even if we assume a refund of $1 for any lay-bet box number which rolls before 7) the average e.v. for laying across ($41, $31, $25, etc.) comes to -1.87% -- considerably higher.
April 16th, 2012 at 7:07:59 AM
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Quote: WongBoyou do not have to make the bet on every roll.
you can opt to just make it occasionally and still have the zero edge.
for the sake of all of us, please throw a nickel out every once in a while?
i know it can be exhausting bending down to pick up those chips but you can do it!
thanks
I am with you on no edge bets. However, I would suspect that most of us want to play with action on every roll. I looked at it as a decision made, perhaps, what, 3 rolls per minute = 180 rolls per hour. Last time I played, I was the only shooter for the better part of an hour. That, and I am no math-head, could lead to a lot of variance. At $5 per roll, that is about $900.00 per hour put into action. Granted, zero advantage is nice, but wow! Next time I go, I may consider devoting one portion of my bankroll specific for Field betting.
Quote: FleaStiffWell thank you, but in reality there is always some "slop" in a craps game and while it is quite correct that a player should say "buy" when he means "buy" and a dealer should acknowledge the word "buy" with the word "buy" or "bought", we all know some slack always creeps into the procedures.
Its the same way with those "buy" lammers... often they do not get positioned but the bets still get paid off as buy bets.
Here is what I notice about the Buy bet placement, at least at Santa Ana, it is not put in the Point Box, but rather as a Place Bet. No lammer is used, since you are talking about "slop." I tend to say, "Buy the 4 and 10", but have, as stated, on occasion asked to be given the 4 and 10.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:06:26 PM
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Quote: ahiromuI misread about the $5 thing, just yeah misread it.
Cool beans!
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 16th, 2012 at 12:41:48 PM
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Quote: ten2winHopefully it happens soon so they are more competitive with Route 66 and Santa Ana Star which both have free buys on the 4&10 at $5.
That statement sounds to me like there is a $5 limit.
April 16th, 2012 at 1:01:50 PM
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Quote: pacomartinThat statement sounds to me like there is a $5 limit.
Again, I hope I am correct in stating that we would like to see a free Buy bet with the lowest denomination allowed (some of us don't have big bankrolls) with no limit, allowing us to increase bets as we win. I have PM'd ten2win asking him to clarify what transpires at Rt. 66. I know it's a free Buy bet at Santa Ana for more than $5, as I have experienced it.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 17th, 2012 at 8:53:31 AM
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ten2win has confirmed, via PM, that there is no limit at Rt. 66, other than the table limits.
I have yet to make it to Sandia to find out the particulars there.
Hope this helps.
I have yet to make it to Sandia to find out the particulars there.
Hope this helps.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 17th, 2012 at 1:52:06 PM
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Quote: bushmanI heard on a local radio station that Sandia Casino, near Albuquerque, NM has introduced what I believe they are calling "No Vig Craps." They stated that they are offering free Buy bets on the 4 and 10, much like Santa Ana Star Casino offers, near Bernalillo, NM. I have yet to confirm it, and don't know of any, if at all, particulars. However, I will try to get out there later this week to see what the story is. This would be very nice to Albuquerque residents, as it is a shorter drive (albeit, neither is too long) than to Bernalillo.
No vig on lay bets as well?
April 17th, 2012 at 2:29:37 PM
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Quote: slackyhackyNo vig on lay bets as well?
Good question. I would suspect so, but I will inquire.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 17th, 2012 at 3:01:41 PM
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Now if the Hard Rock in NM can adopt the same tactics...maybe other casinos in other states will too. Hmmmmmm.....we can only wish.
Also, does the Sandia have the "No-Roll" promotion that the Star has?
Also, does the Sandia have the "No-Roll" promotion that the Star has?
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 3:56:39 PM
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Quote: JamieVNow if the Hard Rock in NM can adopt the same tactics...maybe other casinos in other states will too. Hmmmmmm.....we can only wish.
Also, does the Sandia have the "No-Roll" promotion that the Star has?
What is the "No-Roll" promotion?
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
April 17th, 2012 at 4:00:23 PM
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Very rarely but it has been done. At the Santa Ana Star, during a hot roll, when the shooter 7s out...the table games manager will call "No-Roll" pay out the wrong way players, and leave all the right side bettors money up and let the shooter continue to roll. Pretty sweet huh?
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 4:44:55 PM
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Quote: JamieVVery rarely but it has been done. At the Santa Ana Star, during a hot roll, when the shooter 7s out...the table games manager will call "No-Roll" pay out the wrong way players, and leave all the right side bettors money up and let the shooter continue to roll. Pretty sweet huh?
ahh.. a way of enticing players to play something more than buy 4/10 and Field.
(ie: play more than the 0% house edge bets)
whats the definition of 'hot' roll? or is it up to the table mgr's discretion?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
April 17th, 2012 at 5:35:39 PM
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Quote: JamieVVery rarely but it has been done. At the Santa Ana Star, during a hot roll, when the shooter 7s out...the table games manager will call "No-Roll" pay out the wrong way players, and leave all the right side bettors money up and let the shooter continue to roll. Pretty sweet huh?
This is unbelievable!
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
April 17th, 2012 at 6:10:49 PM
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Last time it was called it was about a 30min. roll...players had their bets pressed up pretty big. The 7 showed...table game manager causally called "no-roll" and the rolled continued. Another player told me they have been on the table three times when the "no-roll" was called.
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 6:13:01 PM
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I am surprised no one knew about this??? Haha but it is pretty cool though.
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 6:15:04 PM
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Do they publicize the No Roll promotion?
April 17th, 2012 at 6:16:16 PM
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I guess not? But they do have it.
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 6:19:31 PM
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Nothing on their website. Do they just randomly decide to offer the No Roll? How often, once a day, week, month?
April 17th, 2012 at 6:35:19 PM
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Wow. That's fascinating.
If that was in AC, the casino would get fined!
Talk about a place that doesn't sweat the money.... holy crap!
If that was in AC, the casino would get fined!
Talk about a place that doesn't sweat the money.... holy crap!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 17th, 2012 at 6:41:04 PM
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We need to set up a WizardofVegas meetup at this Casino ASAP!
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
April 17th, 2012 at 7:51:06 PM
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We need to boycott Vegas for a bit and have NM be our prime gambling spot. Isn't that promotion and buy-bet rule great? I wonder what prompted them to do it?
Bang Biscuit!
April 17th, 2012 at 10:05:29 PM
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Quote: JamieVWe need to boycott Vegas for a bit and have NM be our prime gambling spot. Isn't that promotion and buy-bet rule great? I wonder what prompted them to do it?
It's not radically different from 100X or 1000X free odds. Technically you can argue that someone could go to Santa Ana and play all night making nothing but 0% bets, but how much different is that in dollars of EV from someone going to Riviera and making $5 pass line bets and 1000X odds bets all night.
The casino knows that people will go to this obscure casino in New Mexico that otherwise wouldn't go. The craps table must fill up so these people will play single 0 roulette, or some other game.
I imagine most people on a hot streak from 0% HE games will eventually put some money down on prop bets just for fun.
April 18th, 2012 at 12:14:00 AM
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Quote: pacomartinIt's not radically different from 100X or 1000X free odds. Technically you can argue that someone could go to Santa Ana and play all night making nothing but 0% bets, but how much different is that in dollars of EV from someone going to Riviera and making $5 pass line bets and 1000X odds bets all night.
Maybe not much different in EV but to me the difference is enormous; for the one you could show up with a bankroll in the 100s, the other requires thousands ...10s of thousands in the 1000x case.
EV, schmee-vee at 100x or more odds
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
April 18th, 2012 at 12:37:42 AM
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Quote: pacomartin
I imagine most people on a hot streak from 0% HE games will eventually put some money down on prop bets just for fun.
We all know very few craps players are disciplined enough to solely play those zero edge bets.
How many players solely play the .374% edge pass line with 3/4/5 odds?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
April 18th, 2012 at 3:34:10 AM
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I played the zero house edge 4/10 at Turtle Creek and Leelenau Sands in Northern Michigan (they have it too), and NOBODY else was playing those bets at a full table. It was stupefying.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 18th, 2012 at 6:52:29 AM
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Quote: teddysI played the zero house edge 4/10 at and NOBODY else was playing those bets at a full table. It was stupefying.
Were the dealers "pushing" the bets in anyway? The stickman's patter silent about it?
Seems absurd that with a full table no one was being half-way sensible.
April 18th, 2012 at 1:29:38 PM
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it'd be something if the word gets out that a casino can do this, get a lot of free publicity, but have it cost them very little as the players don't know how to take advantage [if, of course, this is actually the case]. Love to see it spread.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
April 18th, 2012 at 2:16:52 PM
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I plan to take a trip out to NM soon to chech out all this "Free Buy Bet" Madness...heh
However, paying $1 for $30 on a win only isn't terrible...
However, paying $1 for $30 on a win only isn't terrible...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
April 18th, 2012 at 2:27:46 PM
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I just planned a NM trip for the summer. I am pretty excited about it!
Bang Biscuit!
April 18th, 2012 at 3:17:57 PM
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Quote: JamieVI just planned a NM trip for the summer. I am pretty excited about it!
Give us the dates, JamieV! You are not enjoying this Free Buy Bets on 4 & 10 and occasional "No Rolls" by yourself...
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
April 18th, 2012 at 4:38:04 PM
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Haha. You are more than welcomed to come. June 20th-June25th
Bang Biscuit!
April 18th, 2012 at 6:30:34 PM
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Quote: JamieVHaha. You are more than welcomed to come. June 20th-June25th
LOL. I have plans for that week already but have fun, win lots of $$$, give us a good trip report!
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
April 18th, 2012 at 6:50:07 PM
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Quote: CrapsForeverWe need to set up a WizardofVegas meetup at this Casino ASAP!
This would be a pretty cool idea. Get a dozen or so of the craps players on this site to meet at one of these Free Buy/Field casinos, for a weekend. Would be a good time.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
April 19th, 2012 at 11:58:33 AM
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just out of curiousity, are some of the execs in these NM casinos from the Venetian?
backstory:
a few years ago, a sr vp and 2 vps at the Venetian were fired because they rigged a free raffle for a Mercedes for a whale that lost alot of $. there were banned from working in NV casinos by the NV gaming commision.
all 3 of these execs were hired by an indian casino in either az or nm w/full knowledge of what they've done.
backstory:
a few years ago, a sr vp and 2 vps at the Venetian were fired because they rigged a free raffle for a Mercedes for a whale that lost alot of $. there were banned from working in NV casinos by the NV gaming commision.
all 3 of these execs were hired by an indian casino in either az or nm w/full knowledge of what they've done.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
April 19th, 2012 at 12:02:30 PM
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Quote: JamieVHaha. You are more than welcomed to come. June 20th-June25th
Where are you staying, if you don't mind? It appears you have been here before. Need any suggestions on food? I would like to put myself in the mix to play at the table. Of course, I need to clear it with my wife (no, not what you're thinking, we have a 3 year old and a 3 month old.) I typically do not play at the casinos in NM, as I much prefer Las Vegas. However, with a no-edge game, it's hard to keep passing up.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
