Craps Dealer Gripes: We've all got'em, let's hear em'
As for mine...the place I play:
1.) Dealers "roll the dice over" after each roll (when they're supposed to just bring them to center and leave them as they rolled.)
2.) Dealers don't "push" the dice to you...not quite a short-stick, but they'll get them close then SHOVE them, so they tumble your direction (I've gotten to the point that when they do this to me, I simply say "Call it, the dice rolled.")
3.) Dealers can't figure out how to keep the game going and make it easy with each stick change "SEVEN OUT, THE LINE IS IN."..(I just tell them "Allright boys, clean the layout, new stick coming in."
4.) The floor CONSTANTLY keeps the craps bank 100% FULL (three fills a day, even though it doesn't even get played really)
But maybe it's just cuz I play at a pit-split tokes place..rather than Table-For-Table...they just don't care and rely on BJ to make up the tips.
Quote: TIMSPEED
1.) Dealers "roll the dice over" after each roll (when they're supposed to just bring them to center and leave them as they rolled.)
I think that is actually a game protection procedure. I don't fault the stick for checking them out. However, don't give me a seven face up.
1. We have, for the longest of time, just ship the dice as they land. Our official dealer's manual says this is fine, except to avoid naturals. We often even ship naturals if the players don't mind.
2. We push the dice right next to the shooter's line bet. Easy, proper, and curteous to do.
3. Dealers clean up on a seven out, and ship the dice to the next shooter straight away when ready.
4. We do table fills only as needed, although some floormen are more anal than others about this.
AFTER any desired Box inspections they are supposed to turn the dice in front of the Box from what was rolled to Sending Out which is usually Eleven, or as Shooter requests, but never Seven.
2.) Dealers don't "push" the dice to you...not quite a short-stick, but they'll get them close then SHOVE them, so they tumble your direction (I've gotten to the point that when they do this to me, I simply say "Call it, the dice rolled.")
Well, dealers are only supposed to Short Stick attractive young females in loose-fitting low cut clothing, otherwise the dice are positioned directly in front of the shooter and then the stick is removed. Dice should never be "shoved" to a shooter or prospective shooter, only pushed to him via the stick and left clearly in front of him.
3.) Dealers can't figure out how to keep the game going and make it easy with each stick change "SEVEN OUT, THE LINE IS IN."..(I just tell them "Allright boys, clean the layout, new stick coming in."
This is incorrect. The Stick Call for a Seven is just as important as the Stick Call for any other number. It is precise and in a certain order for a reason. Its not an excuse to suddenly be lax or ill-disciplined. Any stick-rotation or other crew rotation should be of no consequence to the players, except for farewells and greetings. A retiring Stick must indicate the identity of the shooter no matter how obvious it is to the incoming Stick man. Identity should be in accordance with procedures to avoid unnecessary references to dress, demeanor or heritage.
4.) The floor CONSTANTLY keeps the craps bank 100% FULL (three fills a day, even though it doesn't even get played really)
This is NOT something the Crew, Box or Floor can do anything about. In Nevada all Fills are at specific times or else On-Demand. All drop boxes are at specific times or On Demand. All such operations are performed according to written instructions and crew members may not alter the times or the procedures or engage in activities that distract or interfere or obscure the layout even briefly.
Even as a player, I remain silent and sip on my Orange Juice or whatever during a fill, well back from the layout and the only numbers uttered will be uttered by casino personnel. I keep my yap shut during a fill. Its a formal scheduled event of significance to the Crew, Casino and Gaming Board.
Quote: TIMSPEED1.) Dealers "roll the dice over" after each roll (when they're supposed to just bring them to center and leave them as they rolled.)
I understand and do not mind the practice of turning the dice once they are in the middle.
I think the complaint here is not that the dealer rolls the dice once htey are in the middle, but that he rolls the dice before/while bringing them to the middle.
On the really big tables, if I'm standing on the end, I often can't see the roll if it hasn't bounced off the wall very far. If the dealer turns the dice while bringing them to the center, I have no way of knowing if the roll was called correctly.
Yeah, I know that the people at that end of the table *should* say something if there is a discrepancy, but if the dealer is too quick, then the dice might already be turned before anyone has a chance to notice or say something.
This was a BIG gripe that I had with one particular dealer on the RapidCraps table at Bills. She was dragging and turning the dice even before she punched the result into the system. NOBODY had a chance to verify it, even me, and I was in the middle of the table that day....
Quote: PaigowdanAs a crap dealer, I wouldn't make these generalizations.
1. We have, for the longest of time, just ship the dice as they land. Our official dealer's manual says this is fine, except to avoid naturals. We often even ship naturals if the players don't mind.
2. We push the dice right next to the shooter's line bet. Easy, proper, and curteous to do.
3. Dealers clean up on a seven out, and ship the dice to the next shooter straight away when ready.
4. We do table fills only as needed, although some floormen are more anal than others about this.
For once, I 100% agree with you.
However, on #3 I don't think anyone got what I said...
New stick or retiring stick, first call or last call, is ALWAYS a 7-out. (They'll either tap out a 7-out, or first call is a 7-out, NO JOKE.)
It's definitely a courtesy thing..help out your fellow dealer..Hell, why make the rotating dealer wonder who's got what bet...MUUUCH easier just to clean up the layout and start fresh (This is quite obvious because when I'm on the DONT and they do that, I get a DIRTY look from the dealer pushing my WINNING chips to me)
Then again...I'm probably playing craps at the wrong house (Is it a wonder they rate the odds and HIGH??)
Another one I just thought of:
5.) Dealers "fish" with the stick (they'll hang the stick in the line of fire, rather than parallel to their body; Hell, some of the dealers have literally HIT my dice with the stick..guess what happened? seeeeeven out)
6.) You're getting "Good hand"...when you only rolled 15 minutes...SERIOUSLY?! When did 15 minutes become a "good hand"??? At a GOOD clip, that's 15 rolls...WHAAAAT? Law of averages say you get 6 rolls...
I have to think this is not proper procedure. Maybe I shouldnt admit this, but I am not sure about that.
Quote: TIMSPEEDFor once, I 100% agree with you.
However, on #3 I don't think anyone got what I said...
New stick or retiring stick, first call or last call, is ALWAYS a 7-out. (They'll either tap out a 7-out, or first call is a 7-out, NO JOKE.)
It's definitely a courtesy thing..help out your fellow dealer..Hell, why make the rotating dealer wonder who's got what bet...MUUUCH easier just to clean up the layout and start fresh (This is quite obvious because when I'm on the DONT and they do that, I get a DIRTY look from the dealer pushing my WINNING chips to me)
Then again...I'm probably playing craps at the wrong house (Is it a wonder they rate the odds and HIGH??)
Another one I just thought of:
5.) Dealers "fish" with the stick (they'll hang the stick in the line of fire, rather than parallel to their body; Hell, some of the dealers have literally HIT my dice with the stick..guess what happened? seeeeeven out)
Is this a serious post? Do you actually believe that the stick just pushes some button underneath the table to magically allow a seven to be rolled right as he is retiring or entering? Or am I simply not understanding your post. But here's something exceptable. The dice are still in the center, and the stick gets tapped. Instead of leaving, he goes ahead and sends the dice once more. This would happen on a come-out when several people are making all kinds of center bets, horns, hops, whatever. The stick just wants to get the point established, so the new stick can have an easier transition.
The only thing that I can imagine you've witnessed is the retiring stick person sits there and keeps passing the dice over and over after getting tapped, so that when the seven comes several rolls later, the incoming stick has a fresh slate. That would be rude.
Some dice dealers may come across as rude, or may actually say some rude things to you, but the large majority aren't "out to get you" as I've seen a lot of players act. They think a dealer may do something on purpose, like send a seven or pass the chips at them weird, or whatever. Or they feel they get screwed because the casino won't comp them a room, so they take it out on the dealers, as if they have something to do with it, and they say the dealer didn't pay them right, purposely taking shots, trying to get more money. It's ridiculous.
I'm willing to bet for each rude dealer, there's five rude players, that are rude on purpose, trying to get more money and essentially "cheat" the craps table.
I do agree with you about the "fishing" though. I had a dealer once that would shake the stick back and forth as I was about to shoot. It was extraordinarily annoying.
Nothing worse than not hearing the roll called and having to wait for someone else to tell me what it is.
Or worst of all, not knowing it's an out until I see the dealers sweeping the board!
Quote: ewjones080Is this a serious post? Do you actually believe that the stick just pushes some button underneath the table to magically allow a seven to be rolled right as he is retiring or entering? Or am I simply not understanding your post. But here's something exceptable. The dice are still in the center, and the stick gets tapped. Instead of leaving, he goes ahead and sends the dice once more. This would happen on a come-out when several people are making all kinds of center bets, horns, hops, whatever. The stick just wants to get the point established, so the new stick can have an easier transition.
The only thing that I can imagine you've witnessed is the retiring stick person sits there and keeps passing the dice over and over after getting tapped, so that when the seven comes several rolls later, the incoming stick has a fresh slate. That would be rude.
Some dice dealers may come across as rude, or may actually say some rude things to you, but the large majority aren't "out to get you" as I've seen a lot of players act. They think a dealer may do something on purpose, like send a seven or pass the chips at them weird, or whatever. Or they feel they get screwed because the casino won't comp them a room, so they take it out on the dealers, as if they have something to do with it, and they say the dealer didn't pay them right, purposely taking shots, trying to get more money. It's ridiculous.
I'm willing to bet for each rude dealer, there's five rude players, that are rude on purpose, trying to get more money and essentially "cheat" the craps table.
I do agree with you about the "fishing" though. I had a dealer once that would shake the stick back and forth as I was about to shoot. It was extraordinarily annoying.
It is an absolutely serious post...
I have a lot of dealer friends at other houses (had one at this house, they fired him, imagine that?)
I'm not saying they have a "magic button"...but it just seems odd that it's literally 9/10 same scenario with retiring/incoming stick.
And with comments such as "It's ok, he's got deep pockets"...I think that's an ABSOLUTE "out to get you" attitude...
and at this particular house, your rating is 99% up to the dealers (they tell the floor how much you were betting), so they have EVERYTHING to do with getting you a comp (which is why I play one particular shift, because the CM doesn't give a RIP because he knows they can't get anyone else to work the grave shift to replace him)
Quote: TIMSPEEDOn #3 I don't think anyone got what I said... New stick or retiring stick, first call or last call, is ALWAYS a 7-out. (They'll either tap out a 7-out, or first call is a 7-out, NO JOKE.)
It's definitely a courtesy thing..help out your fellow dealer.
How does that procedure work when a better is having a 30- or 40-minute roll? Somebody must be losing their break time if the replacement dealer is just standing by and waiting for a 7.
Quote: TIMSPEEDMUUUCH easier just to clean up the layout and start fresh (This is quite obvious because when I'm on the DONT and they do that, I get a DIRTY look from the dealer pushing my WINNING chips to me)
Most don't players, by convention, tend to prefer to play from next to the dealer. And the dealers seem to appreciate that, too.
Quote: TIMSPEED5.) Dealers "fish" with the stick (they'll hang the stick in the line of fire, rather than parallel to their body; Hell, some of the dealers have literally HIT my dice with the stick..guess what happened? seeeeeven out)
Time to kill 'em on the don't. Both don't pass and don't come. And maybe a lay or two, also.
Quote: SanchoPanzaHow does that procedure work when a better is having a 30- or 40-minute roll? Somebody must be losing their break time if the replacement dealer is just standing by and waiting for a 7.
Well (read: Lucky) timed pushes result in a 7 on the come-out for the same shooter (come bet action gets cleaned up as do all working center bets)
Quote: SanchoPanzaMost don't players, by convention, tend to prefer to play from next to the dealer. And the dealers seem to appreciate that, too.
These dealers don't appreciate DONT players AT ALL when their is action on the table.
Quote: SanchoPanzaTime to kill 'em on the don't. Both don't pass and don't come. And maybe a lay or two, also.
Only problem is...all the 7's on the come-out, you'll never GET to the number and when you do, they'll call a Front-Line-Winner once or twice on the inside numbers, to have you get to a 4/10 and 7-out and only win a small amount (never catch up)
"Lose and Leave! So I can go back to daydreaming and people watching...unless you're constantly dropping reds or greens as tokes."
and I mean hell, barely even that, as I try to keep it a $50 an hour tip pace for a crap table (between me and others at the table; ie: $10 an hour raise for each dealer in the crew)
I don't think there's any "convention" or "appreciation" to this at all.Quote: SanchoPanzaMost don't players, by convention, tend to prefer to play from next to the dealer. And the dealers seem to appreciate that, too.
Dark siders like playing next to the dealer because that's where the very small DC box is.
If they would make the field and/or come boxes a little smaller to allow a second DC box where players can reach one of them from any position, you'd see dark siders all over the table.
The dealers that I am accustomed to will:
- bring the dice to the center, as rolled, and not flip them. They shouldn't. The dice should be whatever was rolled, displayed in the center, for all to see.
- will not ship the dice until all bets are paid AND all new bets are made. Yes, they will ship and some extra center action will always come out, but generally, there should be a waiting period.
- send the dice out to what the shooter wants to see. In the casinos that I usually play in, they rotate them to the point (or 11 if it's a come out roll), usually, or they will flip them to whatever I'm setting the dice as (usually 4-4). This is excellent service.
- call the roll, loud and clear, included the dreaded 7 out.
If you firmly believe that a stick change will flip into a seven, then by all means, take off all of your bets and put all of the off money on big red. You'll earn 4:1 if you're right!
Quote: boymimboI don't have alot of gripes with my dealers.
The dealers that I am accustomed to will:
- bring the dice to the center, as rolled, and not flip them. They shouldn't. The dice should be whatever was rolled, displayed in the center, for all to see.
- will not ship the dice until all bets are paid AND all new bets are made. Yes, they will ship and some extra center action will always come out, but generally, there should be a waiting period.
- send the dice out to what the shooter wants to see. In the casinos that I usually play in, they rotate them to the point (or 11 if it's a come out roll), usually, or they will flip them to whatever I'm setting the dice as (usually 4-4). This is excellent service.
- call the roll, loud and clear, included the dreaded 7 out.
If you firmly believe that a stick change will flip into a seven, then by all means, take off all of your bets and put all of the off money on big red. You'll earn 4:1 if you're right!
Believe me, they USED to act like that...I guess they've just gotten surlier...either that or the heat is so intense it burns them.
I won't bet the WORST bet on the table...I just take my bets off and make a come bet..at best I get a push, at worst I just get another number.
1. Players who have a depth-perception issue and think the alligator is 20 feet away so they slam the dice hard enough to get them that far. With this breed is the player who seems to think they get better odds the more stacks of chips they knock over.
2. Players who ignore requests not to place chips in the center or beyond the come because I need to place them so I can pay out. Honorable mention to the loudmouth who repeated "Yeah, don't put them there, AZD only is allowed to put them there," as if I am on some kind of power-trip telling them about this part of the game.
3. Players who keep holding out their new place bets while I am paying out or collecting from the previous decision. Once the guy kept holding them about six inches from my face. Took lots of self control not to scream that if he hadn't noticed I always book the new bets last, so please just wait. Even if you don't play, an intelligent person would notice that there seems to be an order to how the dealer is working.
4. Players who are oblivious to picking up their winners. Not that you have to watch like a hawk, but if you don't want to pay attention at all, please do not play.
5. Players who think they know more than every boxman around, but don't know what the "DON'TS" mean and how they function.
6. Players who think they are the only person I need to pay attention to and help, not the other 9 people at my table. These are usually well-meaning folks who want to learn, but that I simply cannot give my undivided attention to. Luckily there is usually a player who will mentor them. My advice to them when they say they are going to play is that if a dealer tells them their bet is wrong, it is wrong and take the dealer's advice how to correct it as the dealer has your interests in mind (cut the laughter!) but cannot stop a game for one player.
C'mon, AZ.Quote: AZDuffmanCrap (pun or not your choice) I thought that this was for dealers to gripe.
You now we welcome comments from both sides.
In fact, as a player who likes to understand all the minutia of the games, I welcome comments from dealers.
Compare the size or position to the field.
What I do hate is when dealers question my bets. For instance, I was having fun laying every number on the comeout, and then moving the bets down to place bets when the point was set (taking down the 5/9). One dealer told me I was making a sucker bet, as I was guarunteed to lose $30 when a point hit. I told her that I was hoping for a natural.
She then argued that I should just put $30 on the any-seven, as it pays better. I told her the $6 vig was worth not losing on a 2,3,11,12. She argued that I could put $30 on the any-seven, and put my $6 vig on the craps bet, and it would cover my bets. I then argued with her that I would now lose $36 on a point (which occurs more frequently).
I also told her I could get even better odds if I would bet so my payout is $39 on each number (or roughly) (The casino takes $1 out of any winnings up to (not including) $40), and that would be the only argument I would take from her. A new dealer came in and she apologized for the "idiot" making the lay bets...
It's your fucking job. I realize that it is more work for you to put up all the lay bets, but that's not my problem.
I ended up turning $600 into $2200 that night with a good roll. When I cashed out, I asked the superviser (middle guy at the table, can't remember his actual title) to speak with me after he colored me up. I told him I would not be tipping the dealers and I told him the dealers name who called me an idiot.
I feel most players are completely oblivious to how tough it can be to deal, especially craps. People will tell me it must be tough, but they're usually referring to interacting with a-holes all the time and working weird hours. They're not paying attention to all the intricate details in picking and drop-cutting cheques. They just see me hand off their money, and wait for the next roll. They probably think there's nothing to it, because they're only worrying about their own bets, and don't really know what it's like trying to follow half a dozen people's bets.
Pretty early when my dealing, I was very green and slow, but I still knew what was going on, and all the payouts. Once a player had $25 buy on the 4. When the 4 hit, I grabbed two red instead of two green. He started throwing a fit that I underpaid him. I didn't even have a chance to explain that all I did was grab from the wrong stack.
Quote: ewjones080Thank you AZ! You brought up some good points that I wasn't really thinking about.
I feel most players are completely oblivious to how tough it can be to deal, especially craps. People will tell me it must be tough, but they're usually referring to interacting with a-holes all the time and working weird hours. They're not paying attention to all the intricate details in picking and drop-cutting cheques. They just see me hand off their money, and wait for the next roll. They probably think there's nothing to it, because they're only worrying about their own bets, and don't really know what it's like trying to follow half a dozen people's bets.
Once you do learn it, that is what can make craps dealing more fun. People ask how hard it is to learn and I explain I was taught the basics to BJ in less than two hours but craps took "almost 4 weeks of 4 hour days" of instruction and practice. I have gotten goo-goo eyes from women wondering how one person can do it all (remember, I am base, stick, and box all rolled into one) but too bad she had a bf......
To me it isn't that a newbie doesn't know all the procedures that must be followed, it is that they are not sharp enough to see I do things in an order, the same order each time, and not pick up that there must be a reason for it. I have no set "procedure" so have modified casino procedure to meet my special needs. Usually a, "I'll book your bet in a second, I need to collect and pay first" does the trick. But not always. So I try to explain that a dealer does things in an order so they do not miss anything and it keeps the game moving.
Some do finally get it and act cool from then on. Others become bigger jagoffs. Ah, well, this is the life we have chosen. At least I know I am at least trying to teach them right so the casino-level dealers have it easier. Hopefully good karma breeds good karma.
Quote: TriplellI would never have a problem with anything that you have posted. Sounds like your just being a cynical ass.
What I do hate is when dealers question my bets. For instance, I was having fun laying every number on the comeout, and then moving the bets down to place bets when the point was set (taking down the 5/9). One dealer told me I was making a sucker bet, as I was guarunteed to lose $30 when a point hit. I told her that I was hoping for a natural.
She then argued that I should just put $30 on the any-seven, as it pays better. I told her the $6 vig was worth not losing on a 2,3,11,12. She argued that I could put $30 on the any-seven, and put my $6 vig on the craps bet, and it would cover my bets. I then argued with her that I would now lose $36 on a point (which occurs more frequently).
I also told her I could get even better odds if I would bet so my payout is $39 on each number (or roughly) (The casino takes $1 out of any winnings up to (not including) $40), and that would be the only argument I would take from her. A new dealer came in and she apologized for the "idiot" making the lay bets...
It's your fucking job. I realize that it is more work for you to put up all the lay bets, but that's not my problem.
I ended up turning $600 into $2200 that night with a good roll. When I cashed out, I asked the superviser (middle guy at the table, can't remember his actual title) to speak with me after he colored me up. I told him I would not be tipping the dealers and I told him the dealers name who called me an idiot.
Its clearly wrong for her to call you an idiot or refer to you as one even if she thought she would not be over heard by you. I think she just didn't like moving checks around the layout.
The math is beyond me so I don't know if she was right or not ... it may be she was just lazy.
It IS her job to make suggestions... BRIEF and CLEAR ones. It is NOT her job to engage in extended discussions or arguments of any sort.
Sounds like the Box should have stepped in and ended her bickering.
Either way, I definitely have a lot of room with the 16.67% of the any-seven bet.
I asked her if she was aware the any-seven bet was one of the worst bets in the casino, and she said that by paying the 5% vig on multiple bets, I was getting way worse (as if they added).
I quit discussing the bet with her, as she was obviously misinformed, but she was disgusted every time I put the bet up...
She was also being a huge b**** to my friend, as he didn't understand the game, and she was annoyed with his ignorance.
I teaching my friend the come-bet method of betting, and he had forgot to put his bet out after a crap was thrown. The dice had been sent out, but the shooter was still messing with them. I reminded my friend, and he through a $5 chip on the come bet layout, and I retorted that it was a come bet. The roll comes a second later, with an 11, and she exclaims no action on my friends 5.
It was only $5 so I didn't argue over it, my friend quit playing the game, as he felt he got screwed (which he did). Yeah, his bet was late, but I feel like she should have said no action before the value of the dice was known (makes me think she would have counted it if it was a 2,3 or 12)...
Either way, I hope the box asks the dealer in which she called me an idiot is truthful about the situation, and I hope it is made aware that the crew lost out on at least a $50 tip because of this dealer...as it's the only way I can see her possibly learning from her bad customer service (in which she was proud of)...
Quote: appistapp1sAs a craps dealer for the last 37 yrs I can only add that if you think the seven rolls because of a stick change then you should never enter a casino...you are nuts.
It's the "nuts" that give you job security...be thankful they enter the casino.
Quote: appistapp1sAs a craps dealer for the last 37 yrs I can only add that if you think the seven rolls because of a stick change then you should never enter a casino...you are nuts.
But I saw it happen at least TWICE. That means it is a trend right? And that means it can predict the future right!?
Quote: YoDiceRoll11But I saw it happen at least TWICE. That means it is a trend right? And that means it can predict the future right!?[/q.
Lol....quick, someone call john patrick
Quote: AZDuffman3. Players who keep holding out their new place bets while I am paying out or collecting from the previous decision. Once the guy kept holding them about six inches from my face. Took lots of self control not to scream that if he hadn't noticed I always book the new bets last, so please just wait. Even if you don't play, an intelligent person would notice that there seems to be an order to how the dealer is working.
I played once where a dealer was getting very annoyed with players doing exactly this. What bothered me, personally, is the dealer never said anything to the players. The first time I noticed it, it was a player standing next to me. After a couple of times, I mentioned to the player that he should wait until the dealer finished his payouts, and then make his bet. The player thanked me, and then it was ok from there. I'm not sure why the dealer didn't say anything himself.
Later, a woman several spots down from me was doing the same thing. Again, the dealer didn't say anything, but was getting visibly agitated by her actions. I still think a quick comment would have saved him some angst.
I'm not sure if the casino didn't allow the dealers to say something, which seems ridiculous. And while I agree that people should be able to figure out the order of events, I think most of them can't. Plus, sometimes there is pressure to get bets out quickly. All that being said, I think a dealer should be able to tell a player gently to wait until the previous decision has been finalized. After saying this to someone two or three times, and with continued bad behavior, the dealer should feel perfectly justified in eliminating a player.
Its such a burden for a crew to teach someone even at a fairly slow table.
And of course, some players are never going to learn. Often though, dealers don't try to teach. How many dealers say Drop Me a Dollar but don't say why the player should do it.
Quote: Triplell...It's your fucking job. I realize that it is more work for you to put up all the lay bets, but that's not my problem.
True, it is our job. Some people make it easy for us and are easy to deal to - gracious, for lack of an even more positive and better word, and some are insufferable jerks. It is a totally mixed bag. One guy was being a jerk to a cocktail waitress, and he later complained of feeling dizzy, and that his drink tasted funny. Personally I believe he was making it up.
Quote: TriplellI ended up turning $600 into $2200 that night with a good roll.
Good job, good for you. I love nights like that. I tend to overstay a bit and lose some back, just so as long as I leave on the plus side.
Quote: TriplellWhen I cashed out, I asked the superviser (middle guy at the table, can't remember his actual title) to speak with me after he colored me up. I told him I would not be tipping the dealers and I told him the dealers name who called me an idiot.
Supervisors know their dealers and players, and weigh all opinions and feelings against their experience and knowledge, and in that light.
If a player was being a stroker, making all sorts of daffy bets, overworking the dealers, and then announces to the boxman that he stiffed the dealers and complains of being called an idiot, the supervisor might think, "well yeah, that would make sense, I can see that..." while saying, "Oh, I am soooo sorry to hear that, I shall repremand the dealer..." - having been a dealer who had dealt to such people, and to be inclined to be of that opinion. What I am saying here is that people are people, they have feelings and opinions, and if you act with inconsideration, you recieve less consideration, all feelings of "well, it's their JOB, and I shall report them to the floorman, and to the Better Business Bureau, and to my congressman," etc., etc., etc.
Edit: dealers should say at first, 'drop me a dollar, - so I can give you $15 in three red chips instead of $14, and spare you a lot of white chips,' and most players eventually can figure out what is going on.
I also say, "please allow the dealers to pay out the winning bets before booking the new bets as a consideration..."
I'm trying to calc payoffs for all sorts of oddball prop bets when a 12 hits, and I got three guys throwing in fistfulls of white chips yelling, "Lemme get a three-way Uptown Julie Brown and a three-way Seagram's 7&7 with a Lo-Lo-Yo-Momma, and three-way action with the shooter's wife and girlfriend, an Around the World bet, $250 for the hour, $150 for the half..." - it can really sound that daffy.
Quote: boymimboThe dealers that I am accustomed to will:
- will not ship the dice until all bets are paid AND all new bets are made. Yes, they will ship and some extra center action will always come out, but generally, there should be a waiting period.
How about this? Is this just a considerate crew or is this actually the way it is supposed to be?
Hell, most can't even understand the relationship of where they stand at the table to where their chips are moved to in the various boxes.Quote: konceptumAnd while I agree that people should be able to figure out the order of events, I think most of them can't.
Quote: FleaStiff
And of course, some players are never going to learn. Often though, dealers don't try to teach. How many dealers say Drop Me a Dollar but don't say why the player should do it.
When I do get to teach people, I stress that there will be lots of shorthand used at busy tables and that players have to put in their share of effort to understand it. I use the example of the NYSE "specialist" and their shorthand. I will say, for example, if a floor broker wanted to fill an order for US Steel he doesn't make small talk about the whole thing, he just walks up to the right pit, finds the right guy and says,
"How's Steel?"
Nothing else is needed. So the specialist will reply (before decimalization):
3/8 to 1/2; 5,000; up.
Both sides know this means he will buy from you at 35-3/8 (both sides know the dollar value, so no need to repeat it); he will sell to you at 35-1/2; and the last trade was a 5,000 share block and it was an uptick from the previous sale. There is other shorthand to trade and negotiate. What sounds like a foreign language at first isn't all that difficult, but you cannot expect a busy person to ignore his other traders to tutor you.
Same with craps. 8-10 players per side in a jammed game and a box and floorman pushing you for 80-100 rolls per hour and the dealer really has to take the attitude of, "if you need to learn at a slow speed, play when it is slow, not at peak time." I've seen pit bosses flat out tell newbies they should try another game if they are in the casino for the first time. Heck, at parties I tell prospective players who ask me about the game (before we open) that I am happy to teach them, but get there early since when it is jammed I cannot give much if any individual attention.
IMHO, casinos should have 2-3 "levels" of craps lessons. I'd teach the ettiquette lesson for comps but would be fired the first day as my lessons are a little more "street" than they might like (watch the hottie talking to you, she is working with a cheque theif, etc.)
Quote: DJTeddyBearI don't think there's any "convention" or "appreciation" to this at all.
Actually, a few factors are at work here. One is that the don't player is off to the side of the action, avoiding additional notice and possible wrath. Another is that it's easier for the dealers to sweep the table on a seven out and then pay off the don'ts. The don't side also provides a sort counterweight like the offsetting bets in a sports book. And good don't bettors don't tend to be shy about taking care of the crew.
Craps dealers that SPEAK IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE AT THE TABLE.
I was at a table recently where a player questioned his payoff. The player was correct and the dealers were wrong.
After it was resolved the dealers started SPEAKING IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE TO EACH OTHER.
They started laughing as they spoke. I found it very unpleasing to hear this conversation. To me it seemed they were insulting all the players at the table.
There should be an enforcement that ALL DEALERS MUST SPEAK ENGLISH AT THE TABLE AT ALL TIMES.
Quote: WongBoThe DC box is the smallest most remote box because it is the best bet on the table.
Compare the size or position to the field.
Actually, DC is where it is because it is the bet most at risk to past-posting. In dealer school it was beaten into our heads to collect that bet as fast as possible after a loss and to watch for the past-post.
If so, then it seems to me that the DC box should be further away from where player's can reach it.Quote: AZDuffmanActually, DC is where it is because it is the bet most at risk to past-posting. In dealer school it was beaten into our heads to collect that bet as fast as possible after a loss and to watch for the past-post.
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf so, then it seems to me that the DC box should be further away from where player's can reach it.
It is where it is so the dealers can snatch losers fast. Avoids the "savanah" past post where you remove losers not place winners.
Is I got a bunch of dealers that HATE the game of craps and/or gambling in general...
The place caps their tips at a certain amount, so if they make MORE tips than that, they have to pay the casino that much back...
That, and probably 90% of the time, for their 8 hour shifts, they're just standing there zoning out with NO action...so why would they want to have action, when they're not really making any MORE money by HAVING action (as opposed to just standing there zoning out or watching TV and making $7 an hour)
For all the dealers on this forum,
I know you WANT the players to win...it's absolutely the opposite at the house I play. (Just a real "sweat the money" joint)
Quote: PaigowdanTrue, it is our job. Some people make it easy for us and are easy to deal to - gracious, for lack of an even more positive and better word, and some are insufferable jerks. It is a totally mixed bag. One guy was being a jerk to a cocktail waitress, and he later complained of feeling dizzy, and that his drink tasted funny. Personally I believe he was making it up.
Good job, good for you. I love nights like that. I tend to overstay a bit and lose some back, just so as long as I leave on the plus side.
Supervisors know their dealers and players, and weigh all opinions and feelings against their experience and knowledge, and in that light.
If a player was being a stroker, making all sorts of daffy bets, overworking the dealers, and then announces to the boxman that he stiffed the dealers and complains of being called an idiot, the supervisor might think, "well yeah, that would make sense, I can see that..." while saying, "Oh, I am soooo sorry to hear that, I shall repremand the dealer..." - having been a dealer who had dealt to such people, and to be inclined to be of that opinion. What I am saying here is that people are people, they have feelings and opinions, and if you act with inconsideration, you recieve less consideration, all feelings of "well, it's their JOB, and I shall report them to the floorman, and to the Better Business Bureau, and to my congressman," etc., etc., etc.
Edit: dealers should say at first, 'drop me a dollar, - so I can give you $15 in three red chips instead of $14, and spare you a lot of white chips,' and most players eventually can figure out what is going on.
I also say, "please allow the dealers to pay out the winning bets before booking the new bets as a consideration..."
I'm trying to calc payoffs for all sorts of oddball prop bets when a 12 hits, and I got three guys throwing in fistfulls of white chips yelling, "Lemme get a three-way Uptown Julie Brown and a three-way Seagram's 7&7 with a Lo-Lo-Yo-Momma, and three-way action with the shooter's wife and girlfriend, an Around the World bet, $250 for the hour, $150 for the half..." - it can really sound that daffy.
I should note that the next guy who came in was very good. I am usually a pretty laid back person, and pretty quiet at the craps table (except for some excitement)...I bet pretty systematicly, hardly pressing my bets. The next guy was able to figure everything out within a few rolls
"Ok, so you are laying all the numbers, when a point hits, you want to buy the 4/10, and place the 6/8. Bring down your 9/5. You then put a $5 come bet out."...
I usually bet pretty consistently...This lady just truely enjoyed arguing with people (and she felt that my bet was a point to call me out on)...
Quote: TIMSPEEDThe place caps their tips at a certain amount, so if they make MORE tips than that, they have to pay the casino that much back..
Why would I tip the dealers at a joint like this? Wow, the casino gets a cut of extra tips? Madness.
Quote: TIMSPEEDI think all the problem is...
Is I got a bunch of dealers that HATE the game of craps and/or gambling in general...
The place caps their tips at a certain amount, so if they make MORE tips than that, they have to pay the casino that much back...
That, and probably 90% of the time, for their 8 hour shifts, they're just standing there zoning out with NO action...so why would they want to have action, when they're not really making any MORE money by HAVING action (as opposed to just standing there zoning out or watching TV and making $7 an hour)
For all the dealers on this forum,
I know you WANT the players to win...it's absolutely the opposite at the house I play. (Just a real "sweat the money" joint)
Okay now I know you're making things up and just trying to mess with people. Is Troll the right term? There's no way a casino would cap their dealer tips. If they did, tables would disappear in a hurry. I sure as shit wouldn't work there if I knew making more than $20/hr in tips couldn't be possible.
Quote: ewjones080Okay now I know you're making things up and just trying to mess with people. Is Troll the right term? There's no way a casino would cap their dealer tips. If they did, tables would disappear in a hurry. I sure as shit wouldn't work there if I knew making more than $20/hr in tips couldn't be possible.
Never underestimate the stupidity of management. The Teller House in Central City decided to go " no tipping". Without any increase in base pay for employees. Gee, I wonder why that casino closed a few months after instituting that policy ?
Quote: ewjones080Okay now I know you're making things up and just trying to mess with people. Is Troll the right term? There's no way a casino would cap their dealer tips. If they did, tables would disappear in a hurry. I sure as shit wouldn't work there if I knew making more than $20/hr in tips couldn't be possible.
I called BS myself...until I asked the only dealer that's my age, and he said YES, and he wishes they'd lay him off so he could get unemployment...the tips are capped at +$10 per hour per dealer...like I said, this isn't T4T, it isn't even shift for shift...
Dealer, please pass me the dice with no 7's adding up on the top or side of the dice. This common courtesy will be reflected in the tips you receive from me.
