craps dealer question
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| | 10 votes (55.55%) |
18 members have voted
December 26th, 2011 at 11:35:44 PM
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Something I ran into the other day at the craps table....It wasn't me but a guy playing two shooters away.....let me set up a scenario...and tell me what you would assume the dealer would do ok?
you are playing at a $10 table, you make your normal P/L bet. The point comes out, lets say its a 5. NOW you make a $12 6, 8 Place bet. The shooter rolls a 8. You win $14.....Before the dealer pays you, you say these EXACT words "press it back" NOT "press the 8"....but just the words "press it back".....ok, so that's the scenario.....what would you expect a dealer to do?
A) make the 8 look like 24 and pay you the additional $2
or
B) make the 6 and 8 look like 18 and pay you the additional $2
you are playing at a $10 table, you make your normal P/L bet. The point comes out, lets say its a 5. NOW you make a $12 6, 8 Place bet. The shooter rolls a 8. You win $14.....Before the dealer pays you, you say these EXACT words "press it back" NOT "press the 8"....but just the words "press it back".....ok, so that's the scenario.....what would you expect a dealer to do?
A) make the 8 look like 24 and pay you the additional $2
or
B) make the 6 and 8 look like 18 and pay you the additional $2
December 26th, 2011 at 11:52:10 PM
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No bet.
"it"??
"back"???
I would expect "A"... you are pressing the bet that won.
There is no such thing as a 6/8 Place Bet. Its a Place Bet on the 6 and a Place Bet on the 8.
You are using your winning to Press the bet that just won, which was the 8.
"it"??
"back"???
I would expect "A"... you are pressing the bet that won.
There is no such thing as a 6/8 Place Bet. Its a Place Bet on the 6 and a Place Bet on the 8.
You are using your winning to Press the bet that just won, which was the 8.
December 27th, 2011 at 12:01:34 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffNo bet.
"it"??
"back"???
I would expect "A"... you are pressing the bet that won.
There is no such thing as a 6/8 Place Bet. Its a Place Bet on the 6 and a Place Bet on the 8.
You are using your winning to Press the bet that just won, which was the 8.
well dude of course I meant he placed the 6 AND THE 8 of $12 each.....sorry if that was confusing.....if he didnt place the 6 AND the 8 for $12 than why would one of the options be "make the 6 and 8 look like $18"?
and of course if I was making the bet I would have made it clear and said "press $12 back on the 8" or "make the 8 look like $24" and there would have been no confusion....but I wasn't making the bet....
December 27th, 2011 at 1:45:29 AM
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sometimes I'm glad I seldom make these bets
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
December 27th, 2011 at 2:07:26 AM
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Precisely. And ONE of those bets won. So the word PRESS relates to that winning bet (Place the 8) and does relate to the (Place the 6 and Place the 8).Quote: vert1276well dude of course I meant he placed the 6 AND THE 8 of $12 each..
Was there a resultant dispute ?
How was it resolved?
What sort of a crew is that Box running?
December 27th, 2011 at 2:25:44 AM
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I would expect the dealer to ask you to clarify your request. In my opinion, the closest interpretation of "press it back" would mean to press the 8 to $24... but this is a distant second to the dealer asking for clarification.
December 27th, 2011 at 5:18:38 AM
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Unlike the confusion in the thread about parlaying the split hi/lo bet, there is no split line for the 6 / 8.
Therefore, "It" can only refer to the place bet on the 8.
On the other hand, there is a link between them. If the bettor had said "Press both", it is automatically understood which bets were intended, even if the bettor had additional bets up. So if the bettor said "Both", I would have voted "A".
HOWEVER, "Back" is meaningless. I would expect the dealer to ask what you meant, and have therefore voted "other".
If the dealer did anything other than ask for clarification, I would think he'd press the 8 to $24, with $2 change.
Therefore, "It" can only refer to the place bet on the 8.
On the other hand, there is a link between them. If the bettor had said "Press both", it is automatically understood which bets were intended, even if the bettor had additional bets up. So if the bettor said "Both", I would have voted "A".
HOWEVER, "Back" is meaningless. I would expect the dealer to ask what you meant, and have therefore voted "other".
If the dealer did anything other than ask for clarification, I would think he'd press the 8 to $24, with $2 change.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 27th, 2011 at 5:43:04 AM
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id ask for clarification
what the hell is press it back?
what the hell is press it back?
December 27th, 2011 at 7:54:43 AM
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There is one additional detail that is missing from the original question: What was the player's pattern prior to this point?
If he was consistant with his betting pattern, good dealers would be ready to take the action intended, without necessarily hearing any statement.
I.E. I typically start with $12 each on the 6/8 like the original shooter. If one hits, and I drop $1, the dealer knows to pay me $15.
When I'm ready, I'll say "Press both one unit." From that point on, I usually only have to say "Press" or "Same." If I had pressed them to $18, and I drop $1, then he'll know I intend to press to $24.
But even if the dealer was familiar with the player's pattern, if he heard "Press it back", I would think he'd ask what was meant.
If he was consistant with his betting pattern, good dealers would be ready to take the action intended, without necessarily hearing any statement.
I.E. I typically start with $12 each on the 6/8 like the original shooter. If one hits, and I drop $1, the dealer knows to pay me $15.
When I'm ready, I'll say "Press both one unit." From that point on, I usually only have to say "Press" or "Same." If I had pressed them to $18, and I drop $1, then he'll know I intend to press to $24.
But even if the dealer was familiar with the player's pattern, if he heard "Press it back", I would think he'd ask what was meant.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 27th, 2011 at 8:03:18 AM
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Correct Answer: "No bet, sir," and pay out $14 to the player.
1. "press it" - with NO "back" b.s. - means press the number thrown.
2. "Press both" (one unit), $2 change
3. "press the 6"/"press the 8" (to $24 implied, return $2)
Are the only acceptable player calls.
Player may be taking a shot on the game. No can do.
1. "press it" - with NO "back" b.s. - means press the number thrown.
2. "Press both" (one unit), $2 change
3. "press the 6"/"press the 8" (to $24 implied, return $2)
Are the only acceptable player calls.
Player may be taking a shot on the game. No can do.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 27th, 2011 at 10:03:50 AM
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Quote: Whiggiid ask for clarification what the hell is press it back?
There is a talk show hostess fond of saying "right back at ya'".... perhaps Ellen Degeneres was the craps player?
Acceptable: Press OR Press It.
Desirable: Press the 8.
Meaningless addition of that word "back" seems strange. Most dealers would press the bet that had just won, which was the 8, but why the needless confusion?
December 27th, 2011 at 11:56:19 AM
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Hmmm...
I've heard players use the "Back at ya" phrase when replacing a prop bet that lost. They toss the chips to the stickman who then just taps the orignal bets with the new chips to indicate the lost & replaced action, then puts the new chips into his bank.
So "Back" is used at craps tables, but not in the context of the original poster's question.
I've heard players use the "Back at ya" phrase when replacing a prop bet that lost. They toss the chips to the stickman who then just taps the orignal bets with the new chips to indicate the lost & replaced action, then puts the new chips into his bank.
So "Back" is used at craps tables, but not in the context of the original poster's question.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 27th, 2011 at 12:41:08 PM
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the reason I made this thread is because the other night....I guy two shooters to the left of me.....said those EXACT words and when I heard them I thought to myself.."WTF"?......and looked what the dealer did....and he pressed $6 to the 8 and $6 to the 6......then 3 rolls later an 8 was rolled the dealer paid the guy $21 and the guy said WTF why only $21....they had to call for the floor it was a clusterfuck......I was just wondering if anyone had ever seen such a thing.....The table had about 10-12 players 2 dealers and a stick man....no boxman.....there was the problem I think.....
December 27th, 2011 at 1:53:44 PM
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THREE rolls later?
I'll repeat the remark I made in the Hi/Lo split thread:
It is up to the bettor to verify that his bets are as intended.
I think three rolls later is way to long to give ANY benefit of doubt to even have to do anything about it...
I'll repeat the remark I made in the Hi/Lo split thread:
It is up to the bettor to verify that his bets are as intended.
I think three rolls later is way to long to give ANY benefit of doubt to even have to do anything about it...
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 27th, 2011 at 2:05:09 PM
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With 12 up on 6 & 8 on a winner I say "Make the 6 and 8 look like 18" if that's what I want "Press It" I would be meaning press the # that came in. Saying "Press both" I would think he would be throwing in 2 reds to make the 6 & 8 24 each.
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.
December 27th, 2011 at 3:08:10 PM
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Quote: vert1276The table had about 10-12 players 2 dealers and a stick man....no boxman.....there was the problem I think.....
That is a growing problem with the virtual disappearance of the boxpeople. If the powers that be are so darned worried about the pace of the game and number of decisions per hour, they ought to take a look at all the time wasted with verifying buy-ins, coloring up, settling disputes and on and on.
December 27th, 2011 at 8:17:21 PM
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You're right of course. Or say "Press both one unit."Quote: ncfatcatWith 12 up on 6 & 8 on a winner I say "Make the 6 and 8 look like 18" if that's what I want "Press It" I would be meaning press the # that came in. Saying "Press both" I would think he would be throwing in 2 reds to make the 6 & 8 24 each.
But it is such a common thing to do that leaving off the "one unit" part is common too.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 27th, 2011 at 8:29:50 PM
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Bean counters who've determined the position is unnecessary will share in a management bonus.
December 29th, 2011 at 2:41:26 AM
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the table has no boxy?!
December 29th, 2011 at 3:29:03 AM
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Cost cutting move: eliminate the Boxman, save a few pennies ... have more fights and more cheating but there will be managerial productivity bonus.
December 29th, 2011 at 6:59:58 AM
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It's up to the player to always verify that their bets are correct, especially with dice flying and action in the middle. Dealers make mistakes. "Press it" can only mean press the current number, and "back" means nothing. The dealer may have interpreted the third word to be "both" and pressed the 6 and 8.
I've seen Mohegan Sun and the Reno casinos run without a boxman to save money. My fear is the verification of payouts. Once a point is made, the stick looks one way to verify payouts while the box is supposed to look the other way to verify payouts on the other end of the table. I think working without a box only invites cheating and disputes that will do disservice to the casino in the long run.
I've seen Mohegan Sun and the Reno casinos run without a boxman to save money. My fear is the verification of payouts. Once a point is made, the stick looks one way to verify payouts while the box is supposed to look the other way to verify payouts on the other end of the table. I think working without a box only invites cheating and disputes that will do disservice to the casino in the long run.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
December 30th, 2011 at 6:23:49 PM
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well....here is what happened when the floor came over. The dealer said....."the player said press it back and made a "V" with two fingers" the dealer showed the floor what he meant. It was the same gesture you would make to a BJ deal when wanting to split. The 6&8 were his only 2 place bets....so I'm guessing the dealer was just assuming the player wanted to "split" his press.....the floor did nothing for the player. He said "its your responsibility to make sure your bets are placed as you want them. If the 8 was rolled the next roll I would have gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it was three rolls later" and the game went on....
December 30th, 2011 at 7:07:54 PM
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and the correct answer here is the dealer should have asked for clarification as press it 'back' means zero......the dealer also should have called his game so the player would have heard him press the 6 and the 8......also the floor was correct, IT IS the players responsibility to see that the bet was properly executed.
p.s.....I've dealt craps for so 37 years so I know a little
p.s.....I've dealt craps for so 37 years so I know a little
December 30th, 2011 at 7:22:21 PM
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Quote: boymimboI've seen Mohegan Sun and the Reno casinos run without a boxman to save money. My fear is the verification of payouts. Once a point is made, the stick looks one way to verify payouts while the box is supposed to look the other way to verify payouts on the other end of the table. I think working without a box only invites cheating and disputes that will do disservice to the casino in the long run.
Casinos are like so many other busiensses, they see that the expense line item is gone and make the comparrison then say, "look at the extra profit!" What they don't see is the errors in payoffs and outright cheating. Used to see the same thing when I ran the pest control branch. Upper management makes you cut a quality control person, sees the early savings from it, then you lose many times as much in lost productivity and lawsuits.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
December 31st, 2011 at 7:29:23 AM
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Quote: AZDuffmanUpper management makes you cut a quality control person, sees the early savings from it, then you lose many times as much in lost productivity and lawsuits.
It probably would be better to cut back on floor people and supervisors while keeping the boxmen. And the boxmen would also be issuing more accurate ratings.
December 31st, 2011 at 7:47:02 AM
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Quote: vert1276well....here is what happened when the floor came over. The dealer said....."the player said press it back and made a "V" with two fingers" the dealer showed the floor what he meant. It was the same gesture you would make to a BJ deal when wanting to split. The 6&8 were his only 2 place bets....so I'm guessing the dealer was just assuming the player wanted to "split" his press.....the floor did nothing for the player. He said "its your responsibility to make sure your bets are placed as you want them. If the 8 was rolled the next roll I would have gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it was three rolls later" and the game went on....
I can think of no other significance the "V" gesture would have. V for victory? V for Roman Numeral Five?
I don't think there was any doubt for the floor to give the player the benefit of. The player meant press the six and also press the eight.
The Floor's additional comment: you had three rolls of being silent yet didn't open your yap about it ... means you either shirked your responsibility or were simply intentionally biding your time so as to take a shot if the situation did arise.
I'd say there was a problem with the player's ambiguous statement that was clarified by his gesture and confirmed by his silence.
Dealer needs to learn a lesson. Casino needs to bring back the Box man. More shot takers will surface without better crews.
December 31st, 2011 at 8:12:59 AM
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Quote: appistapp1sand the correct answer here is the dealer should have asked for clarification as press it 'back' means zero......the dealer also should have called his game so the player would have heard him press the 6 and the 8......also the floor was correct, IT IS the players responsibility to see that the bet was properly executed.
p.s.....I've dealt craps for so 37 years so I know a little
I think some craps dealers get too full of thinking their job is to make the game complicated to the point nobody should ask for clairificatrion. When I teach people I explain that craps is like the floor of the NYSE where you are supposed to ask and answer in the right shorthand to keep everything moving. But I also stress to ask if you don't get what is being asked, though if you are really new to play at slow times until you learn.
When I was taught to deal I was told a bet had to be booked by two dealers or a dealer and the boxman to be a legit bet and to avoid confusion. Player says, "$6 6/8." Dealer supposed to say, "$6 6/8 on the hook (to indicte position.) Stick or box confirms, "$6 6/8 on the hook."
Too many players, OTOH, treat their trip to the craps table as if they are playing "Yahtzee" with their kids and don't watch their bets. I agree with your statement and would back any employee who saud, "if it lays it plays, sir, you need to verify what you asked for was what they booked."
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
