Craps Psych. Questions

Just came back from trip to Vegas. Normally I would play BJ and dabble in craps for fun, but this trip I played almost exclusively craps (it didn't hurt that I both won early and also got a LOT more play for my money than I normally do at the dice table). I noticed the following two things and wondered what others notice.

1) I would typically buy in $200 at a $10 table. I know one needs a better bankroll to survive, and can and do peel off more $100's as necessary. But it felt like I was continually chasing. Peel off another $100, then maybe instead of usual place bet of $12 on 6,8 I am placing $18 each to start.

Question: Assume you are willing to play/lose $600 in a session. Do you (personally) feel less like you are chasing if you buy in for $1000 and walk when down $600 than if you buy in for $200 and keep adding to it.

2) I found that when the dice made their way around to me, I would increase my bets. Maybe full 3X, 4X, 5X odds instead of 2X. Maybe place 6,8 for $24 or $30 instead of $12 each.

***** NOT a dice control question *******

Question: Assuming you believe in the randomness of the dice, do you still find yourself playing increased bets when it is your turn to shoot?

I always bet heavier on myself, lately to my demise. I have no illusions of dice control, although I will occasionally set dice. So why do it? Well, I have had a roll of 70 mins, and a few others over 30 mins., not that the past has anything to do with my next roll. I guess it is just a way of reinforcing positive vibes as I get set to go on a 1 hour roll.

It feels far better to buy in for $X and leave when you're down than to re-load and leave when you're down that same amount. And this goes for ANY game.

Yes, I bet more when I'm shooting. After all, who's luckier than me?

I will increase my pass line bet when im the shooter sometimes and im up money for that session. But not my place bets or buy bets. Also when im the shooter(and I hate to admit this) I will sometimes bet a hard 6 or 8 if my point is a 6 or 8. I know its a horrible bet lol. But the entertainment factor out weighs the HE factor in my opinion LOL.

1) Nope. I do not feel like I am "chasing" any more in a given situation. Losing $600 brings up exactly the same emotions in both situations.

2) Yes, I do increase my initial bets when it is my turn. Obviously I can 7-out as well as anyone else, but I simply like the idea of betting on myself more than I bet on anyone else.

I have changed over time and absolutely like to buy in big, and always color up. I've seen too many who go bust, then pull out another $20 to try to get lucky .... that looks pathetic to me now.

I'm in agreement with most others here -- I always buy-in for the amount I'm willing to lose, and that willing-to-lose amount never increases during the session. Sometimes it decreases, in which case I color up (instead of going broke). If I'm winning, I set a rising stop limit (e.g. don't go beneath X, where X may be greater than what I started with).

I always bet more on myself. It's much more satisfying to say "I had a great hand at the dice table and won $1000" than "someone else had a great hand at the dice table and I bet on it." That's not to say that I haven't been the recipient of someone else's good hand, but all other things being equal (e.g. same wins/losses), I'd rather be the one shooting.

I used to buy-in for $100 on a $5 game, then rebuy with another $100 if neccesary...
Now I just buy in for $500, and if the dice get cold (I lost $100 QUICKLY) I'll just simply quit betting or bet the Dont Pass until the dice get hot again (Someone rolls a natural 7 winner then also rolls a point winner)

Quote: vert1276

I will increase my pass line bet when im the shooter sometimes and im up money for that session. But not my place bets or buy bets. Also when im the shooter(and I hate to admit this) I will sometimes bet a hard 6 or 8 if my point is a 6 or 8. I know its a horrible bet lol. But the entertainment factor out weighs the HE factor in my opinion LOL.

I usually have $1 piggy-backing my pass line bet for the dealers. I will back with $1 odds for them on points 4 & 10, $2 odds on 5 & 9. But not willing to go to $5 on 6 & 8, and not willing to get even money, so I instead play $2 two-way parlay on hard 6 or 8. Just got back from Vegas and was chasing that parlay all damn weekend....UNTIL...literally on my way out the door, suitcase in hand, I stop at table for one last shot at glory. Finally hit it, $75 for me, $75 for dealers (still had $25/$25 in action) ... All told, probably came out a little ahead on that bet after a weekend of missing it. (hit the first leg several times, just couldn't get the second until the end.)

I guess I'm the only one who bets less when he's shooting. When I'm rolling the dice, I play pass line & odds, and usually 2 come bets with odds. I also do a $1 bet with odds on the pass line for the dealers. Why do I bet less when I'm rolling? Not really sure, I just always have. And, if I get on a hot streak, it's kind of fun to say that I should quit rolling since I don't have enough to bet with, and have other people at the table throw money to me to keep me in the game.

All kidding aside, the psychology of losing, say, $600, should be the same no matter how you go about doing it. However, you will find that your different ways of approaching this may actually affect you in subconscious ways that you don't even realize. (I'm not addressing the winning side of things, as I assume you have your own win limit and can copy with it just fine.)

1) Plunking down the $600 is probably the easiest way to do things. After all, you only have the money in front of you, and when it's gone, you're done and can leave the table.

2) Plunking down $200 at a time can cause why I refer to as "failure buildup". If you went with option 1, and lost your $600, you might feel like you failed. That sucks, but you walk away, take a break, regroup, maybe get some food, and try again later. On the other hand, with option 2, when you lose your first $200, you feel like you failed. Then you pull out $200 more, and lose it, and now you've failed twice. By the time you lost the last $200, you've now failed three times. The concern that can build up here is that you might make riskier or stupider bets as you go along, hoping to recover from the previous failure(s).

3) Starting with $1000, and quitting when you get down to $400 can have a good positive effect on you. You will be walking away from the table with money. And while logically you know you lost $600, there's still something to be said for walking away from the table with at least a few chips in your hand. The problem with this option is if you don't, or can't, exert the self control to leave when you are supposed to. Maybe your betting system requires you to dip into that $400 just a little bit, so you do, and get wiped out, and then, since you didn't leave with the $400 you said you would, you decide to go ahead and gamble it away.

Naturally, none of this really matters as long as you exert perfect self control, have absolute knowledge of the game and knowledge of the fact that you will lose in the long run, and that your $600 is $600 no matter how you lose it.

Personally, I don't worry too much about the self control. After all, the only reason I'm even playing craps is because of the girl across the table in the low cut top who has to bend WAY over to make her bets.

Quote: chevy

Question: Assuming you believe in the randomness of the dice, do you still find yourself playing increased bets when it is your turn to shoot?

I personally do this. I used to always play every single passline and come bet, all with full odds, but found that I would feel uncomofrtable internally with the huge amount of swing in my bankroll. During my last trip though, when it was my turn to roll I did that just during my turn, feeling maybe I was bringing myself luck and could therefore handle it. It's all superstition, but increasing your bets when you roll feels confident.

I just figure if I'm going to be making money for others at the craps table, I might as well make some for myself so I raise my bet even if I'm on the Don'ts.

I usually leave my bets at the same amount for my roll but often work the 6 and 8 on the comeout when rolling. Obviously no rational reason.

Quote: konceptum

3) Starting with $1000, and quitting when you get down to $400 can have a good positive effect on you. You will be walking away from the table with money. And while logically you know you lost $600, there's still something to be said for walking away from the table with at least a few chips in your hand. The problem with this option is if you don't, or can't, exert the self control to leave when you are supposed to. Maybe your betting system requires you to dip into that $400 just a little bit, so you do, and get wiped out, and then, since you didn't leave with the $400 you said you would, you decide to go ahead and gamble it away.

This touches on the reason I tend to buy in for less than I really want to risk for the session. From playing BJ I always found if I bought in for my full session amount, I guarantee that the last $25 bet, I will be dealt 8-8 against dealer 5. I will have no choice but to go to the well...and of course I will only have $100 bills in wallet, so get excess change in chips. Now I have the chips in front of me, go ahead, gamble it away. So I learned to be clever and fool the (apparently) simple minded gambling gods by buying in for less. Then the extra chips were just part of my original session bankroll, but they "THINK" they tricked me into risking more.

(no comment on when eventually the last bet of the extra $100 is 9-2 against dealer 6...................)

As this thread was about Craps, I will point out that I never feel like I am chasing by playing this way in BJ, but did feel I was this last trip in Craps. Hence the original question.

I always bet the same way (pass + come + odds) no matter who is rolling. I always thought the people that would only bet on themselves were silly. The amount of odds I play depends on the table rules, my session buy in and how well I've been doing, no change for certain dice rollers.

I buy in immediately for what I am willing to lose for the session, which is 100-500 depending on how the trip has gone and the table rules.

As a followup to those that say they buy in for their session amount, and if they lose it they walk.

Question: How do you handle the end when you have an odd amount of chips left? Walk with the chips? Make some bets and leave the change for the dealers? Dare I say, go to the well to have enough to cover your odds bets.

To put a specific example, say you have $14 on a $10 table.
-Walk with $14
-$10 pass with $4 odds
-$10 pass with full odds by going to the well to reload
-$10 pass, $4 to dealers
-Place 6 for $12, Two-way Parlay on the hard 6 .... And press the HELL out of it on every hit trying to make it all back.


I am the last option (mind you, I always had the dealers on the line for $1, otherwise I might play $10 and toss $4 to crew.)

I always quit long before I get to 'just a few chips' left. But I suppose I'd just put it all on the line with as much on the free odds as possible if I found myself with that situation somehow.

Quote: chevy

Just came back from trip to Vegas. Normally I would play BJ and dabble in craps for fun, but this trip I played almost exclusively craps (it didn't hurt that I both won early and also got a LOT more play for my money than I normally do at the dice table). I noticed the following two things and wondered what others notice.

1) I would typically buy in $200 at a $10 table. I know one needs a better bankroll to survive, and can and do peel off more $100's as necessary. But it felt like I was continually chasing. Peel off another $100, then maybe instead of usual place bet of $12 on 6,8 I am placing $18 each to start.

Question: Assume you are willing to play/lose $600 in a session. Do you (personally) feel less like you are chasing if you buy in for $1000 and walk when down $600 than if you buy in for $200 and keep adding to it.

2) I found that when the dice made their way around to me, I would increase my bets. Maybe full 3X, 4X, 5X odds instead of 2X. Maybe place 6,8 for $24 or $30 instead of $12 each.

***** NOT a dice control question *******

Question: Assuming you believe in the randomness of the dice, do you still find yourself playing increased bets when it is your turn to shoot?

I feel it provides a more disciplined game if I buy in for smaller and re-buy up to my limit if necessary. If I buy in for more, there's potential to lose it, so I don't do it. Losing $600 will feel the same way, no matter how I do it.

As for betting, I do bet more on myself, in fact the last couple of times, I pretty much bet ONLY on myself. Maybe a prop here and there under others, or a place bet here and there, I'd play the pass if someone calls out support, but when I'm shooting, it's passes and comes, odds vary depending upon the roll (I don't stake myself enough to go 3-4-5).

There is an absolute physiological advantage to buying in for a larger amount than your loss limit.

You have your session amount, in your case here it's $1000. If you lose the 600,(your loss limit) you still walk away with $400. You didn't "lose it all". Losing the whole stake gives me a bad taste in the mouth and a bad attitude, unless you're made of money, I'm not.

By the same token, having a win goal is a great thing, and knowing when to quit while you're ahead, and how to quit while you're ahead is an art.

Once you achieve your win goal, in this case is would be conversely $600, you might want to break that in half, pocket $300 (and the original grand) and continue to play. You're in a winning session, and don't want to stop while the dice are hot. You might double that, and pocket another $300 and continue to play with the other $300.

Now of course when you're up you'll consider increasing your bet size accordingly but if you've doubled your win goal, have $600 profit in pocket then you go all out to break the bank. This Cavalier attitude will make you win more.

I don't know why it works, but winners win, it seems self perpetrating. You are a winner!

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner, but make mine Fillet Mignon and a bottle of good Champagne!

I've done this many times and there is no feeling on earth to me better than having a home run session.

But if you lose, oh well, at least we didn't lose it all!

Quote: chevy

As a followup to those that say they buy in for their session amount, and if they lose it they walk.

That seems to be good advice. I see no benefit to buying in for slightly less than your limit and then fumbling for a pittance buy in later. Set your limits and abide by them.

If you are getting close to the felt: stack up a final bet for yourself and the dealers and 'go for broke'... then whether you win or lose: walk away!