pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 24th, 2011 at 3:17:34 PM permalink
Quote: fulkgl

Outside of LV I think craps is holding it's own.



Craps in Nevada is making just over $1million per day of which 70% is from the strip. But off strip rules tend to be more akin to your riverboat rules.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 24th, 2011 at 4:14:20 PM permalink
Quote: fulkgl

BJ and Craps both suck in LV. Far better rules, much friendlier outside of LV. Much too intimidating and unfriendly there.
dealers hustling tokes (not as bad as a used to be)
surly and rude box/pit


Perhaps that is part of the reason why Indian casinos are doing so well. Why fly to Las Vegas and have rude crews when its going to be a more leisurely game locally and the crew will be friendly if a bit inexperienced? Why trek to Hollywood for a Trendy Restaurant when the food is better down the block at Joe's Diner?

Craps at Benny Binions used to be "the biggie". Chat with Benny Binion about a bowl of his Chili and you had reached the pinnacle of the gambling world. Meet the morning regulars: Guy in a Morning Coat, Mia (who never wore panties) and threw the dice under an upraised leg in her younger days and whose language made sailors blush. Now ... you probably would be better off on a Riverboat.

I think my perceptions of the crowds may be off the mark, but despite some Frat Rats and some darned good looking young ladies at the tables from time to time, I mainly see the Geritol set at the craps tables or else the occasional noisy drunken young punks.
PeteM
PeteM
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April 24th, 2011 at 4:15:47 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I shot craps last night at Chinook Winds Casino, a nice tribal casino on the Oregon coast.

The table was a fairly even mix of seasoned, aka older craps players and hordes of 20-somethings.

Lots of new, young players, at least on a weekend night, and their energy and emotion was neat to behold.

Kind of like how I felt when I was new to the game.

Don't write the obit just yet.

Where in Oregon? Is that the one in Coos Bay?
"Win with a smile, lose with grace."
TinhornGambler
TinhornGambler
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April 24th, 2011 at 4:18:35 PM permalink
Craps like most of table games is getting raked over the coals by the casinoís with inappropriate raising and jacking up the minimums .
Instead of maintaining constant table conditions they rather yo-yo the minimums to satisfy some mythical supply and demand theory. But in my opinion, 9 out of 10 times they drive away potential customers.

Craps is a game where not one bet is made, but several. This leads to larger bankrolls and bigger swings which often creates under-funding for many.

However, on the plus side Iíve noticed some Vegas casinoís have reduced their minimums. Unfortunately they tend to raise the minimums at the drop of a hat.
One of the worse local offender in Las Vegas is Red Rock casino.
$5 Craps goes to $10 when the table starts to fill up. And when it goes empty Ö. it goes back to $5.

If the goal is to keep craps alive and a potential Winner for the casino, they will have to come off their short sighted thinking.

In Las Vegas during the week Ö. Iíve found:
$2 craps at Arizona Charlieís.
$3 craps at Suncoast, El Cortez, Samís Town, Fremont, Boulder Station, Texas Station, Fiesta - Rancho, Jokerís Wild, Sahara. (there are otherís )
On the Las Vegas strip Ö itís hit and miss. Some places can vary from $5 to $15. (average) Other places from $10 to $25. The problem becomes what time of day, any big conventions or special events going on.

I believe if a casino truly has an interest in keeping Craps alive they can make it happen. They need to step up to the plate and develop a customer attitude base and quit limiting themselves to their bean-counter mentality.

Iíve just singled out one main issue, but there are others.
Compís, adversary relationships between customer and dealer/pit, poor customer attitude, lousy playing conditions, etc.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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April 25th, 2011 at 11:14:15 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Craps at Benny Binions used to be "the biggie".



Agreed. But with the sad demise of the former, "center of the craps universe", which casino (not necessarily in Las Vegas) would now be considered the best place for serious gamblers to play Craps?
America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-ass speed. - Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
DrEntropy
DrEntropy
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April 25th, 2011 at 11:24:53 AM permalink
Quote: TinhornGambler

Craps like most of table games is getting raked over the coals by the casino�s with inappropriate raising and jacking up the minimums .
Instead of maintaining constant table conditions they rather yo-yo the minimums to satisfy some mythical supply and demand theory. But in my opinion, 9 out of 10 times they drive away potential customers.



Valid point! M resort is another offender. Sometimes they have $5 tables, sometimes not. You can't determine it ahead of time (it is not so clearly based on supply and demand, as I often see empty tables when they are in $10 mode) so I don't bother going there. (I am a low stakes player, and even when betting more I want the option to bet less when I want). GVR reliably ALWAYS has at least one $5 table, and sometimes three tables. So I go there.
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 25th, 2011 at 11:50:38 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Agreed. But with the sad demise of the former, "center of the craps universe", which casino (not necessarily in Las Vegas) would now be considered the best place for serious gamblers to play Craps?



For Downtown Las Vegas, the 32 craps tables make $2,365 / day for the last 12 months reporting. The bottom 3 casinos with 5 craps tables make $831 / day. Frankly, I think if a craps table doesn't even generate $1K per day you ought to give up the ghost and put in slot machines. The major casinos are still making $4K per table day.

I'm still inclined to say Main Street and El Cortez because they still have very generous rules for free odds. Main street is 20X, and El Cortez is 10X. Stratosphere is still 10X. The Strip only has that single table at Casino Royale.

6 GOLDEN NUGGET
4 BINION'S GAMBLING HALL & HOTEL
4 CALIFORNIA HOTEL AND CASINO
4 FREMONT HOTEL AND CASINO
4 STRATOSPHERE TOWER, CASINO & HOTEL
3 FOUR QUEENS HOTEL & CASINO
3 MAIN STREET STATION HOTEL, CASINO AND BR
2 EL CORTEZ
2 FITZGERALDS LAS VEGAS HOTEL AND CASINO
-----------
2 GOLDEN GATE HOTEL & CASINO
2 LAS VEGAS CLUB HOTEL & CASINO
1 WESTERN HOTEL AND CASINO
teddys
teddys
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April 25th, 2011 at 11:57:24 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Agreed. But with the sad demise of the former, "center of the craps universe", which casino (not necessarily in Las Vegas) would now be considered the best place for serious gamblers to play Craps?

Ironically enough, probably the Horseshoe casinos, now owned by Harrah's. All of them have 100x odds, and the limits can go as low as $5 at times.

Locations: Hammond, Ind.; Louisville, Ky. (S. Indiana); Bossier City, La.; Tunica, Miss; Omaha, Neb. (Council Bluffs, Ia..) Coming soon: Cincinnati and Cleveland, Oh.

Some really serious craps players hang out at the Hammond one.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 25th, 2011 at 12:37:26 PM permalink
Quote: DrEntropy

I am a low stakes player, and even when betting more I want the option to bet less when I want. GVR reliably ALWAYS has at least one $5 table, and sometimes three tables. So I go there.

Right. And the casinos spend so much money on those darn players club cards and spend so much time talking about loyalty programs but the casino doesn't seem to really want a player's loyalty if they keep jerking the players around with uncertainty and whimsical action or actions that are at least viewed as being whimsical. Quite frankly, considering the food, wine and quality of the cocktail waitresses at the M Resort it is a terrible shame that you prefer GVR.

On-Edit: I recall being at a craps table where the minimum bet is displayed electronically. The display was lowered, not raised, during my play and I recall being annoyed that it had gone from 15 to 10 after less than twenty minutes of play. Can't they just make up their minds?
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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April 25th, 2011 at 12:55:56 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Ironically enough, probably the Horseshoe casinos, now owned by Harrah's. All of them have 100x odds, and the limits can go as low as $5 at times.

Locations: Hammond, Ind.; Louisville, Ky. (S. Indiana); Bossier City, La.; Tunica, Miss; Omaha, Neb. (Council Bluffs, Ia..) Coming soon: Cincinnati and Cleveland, Oh.

Some really serious craps players hang out at the Hammond one.



The minimum at the Horsehoe Hammond on weekends is usually more than $5 though. You're better off finding a $5/100x odds table at one of the other Gary-area casinos (where everyone else has gone to 100x to compete with the Horseshoe) or one of the Harrah's-managed properties in Tunica.

But yeah, most of the bigger players gravitiate to Horsehoe Hammond. Eight tables there I think, and they're usually pretty full on weekends.

Otherwise, someone has to nominate the Santa Ana Star. I believe their odds only go up to 10x though. May be 20x, I forget, but it wasn't 100x.

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