Ecraps Help

Hello everyone. Question, If I'm on 1 ecraps machine and my wife is on the other and were both betting the same amount. If I bet x amount on the pass line, and my wife bets the same amount on dont pass, will it be a wash after playing all day? Also will it be the same if we both bet 2x odds after come out roll? THANK YOU!

Sounds like there is no common dice with two different machines, so there would be no correlation. If there was common dice, you'd both lose on the HA, but the dice will skew your profits and loss. If you go long enough or hard enough, you'll both be down. What you need is some betting progression so that little wins get magnified.

Hi, its common dice for all the machines. Whats the best way to play for the best RTP?
Thx!

I can't play two spots at once, so I'm not sure. You can download WinCraps and try your luck at home for free. But I get skewed results that rewards beginner's luck and then goes on a never ending punishing spree until I change up my strategies.

I can play 2 machines at once. Theres a circle of about 30 of them. My wife will be on one, I will be on the next to her.

With cancellation betting, you can only lose.

Fortunately, craps has a small house edge, so Pass/Don't Pass shouldn't cost much.

So, one machine play pass and next to it, dont pass correct? thx!

Don’t forget the “Bar 12”.

Pass bets lose on a come out 12, while Don’t Pass bets push. That will add up pretty quickly.

Playing both sides of craps has nearly identical edge and variance as playing black/red or even/odd or high/low in single-zero roulette with la partage. Edge of 1/72 vs 1/74

I see no reason to play this way except as a comp scam. And the only way I see that being profitable is if the casino comped on 3-4-5 odds amount

As stated, you will never win. You will mostly tie and give the house its edge with very low variance. Would be hard to stay awake

its paying 7x reward credits and 8x some days, then at their sister casino, those rewards credits are free play for 3x. So its up to 24x to free play.

Quote: Payner12

So, one machine play pass and next to it, dont pass correct? thx!
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They don't even need to be next to each other, so long as the bets are resolved according to the same dice rolls.

Best of luck.

Quote: Payner12

its paying 7x reward credits and 8x some days, then at their sister casino, those rewards credits are free play for 3x. So its up to 24x to free play.
link to original post

cancelation betting is 2.8% HE because of the 12.
does '24x points = freeplay' overcome the 2.8%?
if so, both you and your wife should max bet on the pass/dont pass

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Payner12

its paying 7x reward credits and 8x some days, then at their sister casino, those rewards credits are free play for 3x. So its up to 24x to free play.
link to original post

cancelation betting is 2.8% HE because of the 12.
does '24x points = freeplay' overcome the 2.8%?
if so, both you and your wife should max bet on the pass/dont pass
link to original post

No, it's still 1.4% HE, but you are betting twice as much and have twice higher loss that way

are you getting one point per dollar bet? is it a penny a point? [often not]

on those days you get 24x, and it's freeplay, I'd have to think at less than a penny a point you are still getting ahead, assuming it's awarded at a point per dollar. You expect to lose 1.4 cents per dollar with little variance, and are getting back 4.8 cents if the points are only worth 2 mils. I'd play even if your partner can't, and not at the minimum bet ... however, seems to be too good to be true

seems to good to be true,but thats what i want to take advantage of before the casino catches on.. All good things must come to an end.

Quote: Payner12

seems to good to be true,but thats what i want to take advantage of before the casino catches on.. All good things must come to an end.
link to original post

I’ll bet you $1 that the comps you will be getting do not exceed the house edge. (Only $1 because casinos do make these kind of mistakes occasionally). But if you are SURE that the points exceed the expected loss, no reason not to bet max.

You could also just bet on your own and accept the variance. You would still have the advantage.

Is this a US located casino?

Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Payner12

its paying 7x reward credits and 8x some days, then at their sister casino, those rewards credits are free play for 3x. So its up to 24x to free play.
link to original post

cancelation betting is 2.8% HE because of the 12.
does '24x points = freeplay' overcome the 2.8%?
if so, both you and your wife should max bet on the pass/dont pass
link to original post

No, it's still 1.4% HE, but you are betting twice as much and have twice higher loss that way

are you getting one point per dollar bet? is it a penny a point? [often not]

on those days you get 24x, and it's freeplay, I'd have to think at less than a penny a point you are still getting ahead, assuming it's awarded at a point per dollar. You expect to lose 1.4 cents per dollar with little variance, and are getting back 4.8 cents if the points are only worth 2 mils. I'd play even if your partner can't, and not at the minimum bet ... however, seems to be too good to be true
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It's an excellent play and not too good to be true. I have done at certain properties myself.

If they want to maximize their time they will need to learn checkerboarding techniques. But that's a level of doey/don't these beginners don't seem ready for.

I highly doubt points are awarded at one dollar a point. I'm guessing it's more like $30 a point but even at $30 for a point which equals a penny there is a great opportunity there

To the OP, How many points per dollar is awarded and is on 3/4/5 odds as well?

EDIT: If it's one penny per point and awarded at just one dollar wagered and at 3/4/5 times odds that would be the motherlode. But I am guessing it's more like $30 wagered for one point earned.

BTW the OP and his wife should not be max betting. They should be strategically checkerboarding. But again that's advanced doey/don't. They will probably muck it up lol

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Payner12

seems to good to be true,but thats what i want to take advantage of before the casino catches on.. All good things must come to an end.
link to original post

I’ll bet you $1 that the comps you will be getting do not exceed the house edge. (Only $1 because casinos do make these kind of mistakes occasionally). But if you are SURE that the points exceed the expected loss, no reason not to bet max.

You could also just bet on your own and accept the variance. You would still have the advantage.

Is this a US located casino?
link to original post

I will take that bet. But how will we confirm? The OP probably isn't going to give us his location lol.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Payner12

seems to good to be true,but thats what i want to take advantage of before the casino catches on.. All good things must come to an end.
link to original post

I’ll bet you $1 that the comps you will be getting do not exceed the house edge. (Only $1 because casinos do make these kind of mistakes occasionally). But if you are SURE that the points exceed the expected loss, no reason not to bet max.

You could also just bet on your own and accept the variance. You would still have the advantage.

Is this a US located casino?
link to original post

I will take that bet. But how will we confirm? The OP probably isn't going to give us his location lol.
link to original post

We can just assume I lost and I owe you $1. Please explain checkerboarding.

Quote: Payner12

Hello everyone. Question, If I'm on 1 ecraps machine and my wife is on the other and were both betting the same amount. If I bet x amount on the pass line, and my wife bets the same amount on dont pass, will it be a wash after playing all day? Also will it be the same if we both bet 2x odds after come out roll? THANK YOU!
link to original post

Why would you each bet 2x odds? Is that the machine restrictions?

Usually it's max 3/4/5x odds for the do and 6x odds for the don't

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Payner12

seems to good to be true,but thats what i want to take advantage of before the casino catches on.. All good things must come to an end.
link to original post

I’ll bet you $1 that the comps you will be getting do not exceed the house edge. (Only $1 because casinos do make these kind of mistakes occasionally). But if you are SURE that the points exceed the expected loss, no reason not to bet max.

You could also just bet on your own and accept the variance. You would still have the advantage.

Is this a US located casino?
link to original post

I will take that bet. But how will we confirm? The OP probably isn't going to give us his location lol.
link to original post

We can just assume I lost and I owe you $1. Please explain checkerboarding.
link to original post

Checkerboarding:

Assuming the E-Craps is 3/4/5 times odds and points awarded at a penny per point for every $30 wagered (close to standard from my experience. Some places are $15 or $10 but may not award for odds taken)

You want to wager $30 doey/don't with $1 on the 12. Only one side makes the 12 wager. You lose $1 per wager but on the 12 come out the push is a wash(do side loses $30, the $1 boxcar wins $30.)

The point of this (no pun intended) is to earn max points on max odds. Do takes 3x/4x/5x odds. So $90/$120/150 additional (note at $30 per point that side earns 4-6 points with max odds.). Don't always takes the max 6x odds so additional $180 (don't gets a consistent 7 points per wager.)

Just adding up 7 points plus the 4/5/6 points on the other card that's 11/12/13 points earned between them. And that's multiplied by 24X so they get back $2.64 in freeplay (11 x 24 or better for every $1 lost or $1.64 or better profit prior to freeplay run-through. (That's at one point per $30 wagered. At one penny per $1 wagered they hit the motherlode.). That doesn't even take into account future mailers:)))

Now problem and here is why you don't want to Max bet(max the odds but not the initial wager).

First if you only make one wager (pass/don't pass) you will earn really slowly. Because sometimes the pass wager isn't realized for half an hour. To maximize the earnings you want to take each successive throw.

$30 on pass/don't pass, if point established then
$30 on come/don't come, if second point established then
$30 on come/don't come, if third point established etc

Until either 7 out or all 6 points established.

You are now earning points very quickly. But that leaves next big problem.

ECraps may have (and often are) treated like slots with $1200 jackpots. That would make hand pay and a W2-G on all six points established and a seven out (you easily have over a thousand in wagers when multiple points are established).

So in comes checkerboarding.

Husband: pass
Wife: don't pass
If point established then

Husband: DON'T come
Wife: Come
If second point established then

Husband: come
Wife: DON'T come

You will notice the husband and wife are switching sides. First one is taking the do then next wager the don't, then next wager the do, the next wager the don't.

If all six points get established the board looks like a game of checkers, three wagers on the do and three on the don't awaiting points made or a seven out. Hence why it's called checkerboarding.

The reason is to avoid the jackpot on the seven out. When it hits (assuming all six points established) each player loses their three DO bets but wins their three don't. The result is a win under the $1200 jackpot limit.

And that's checkerboarding in a nutshell. And you better be on the ball because both sides need to track when they switch or you will end up with a grand or two lost at once. Which is why I don't believe this husband/wife team are ready for it.

Bankroll of ten grand minimum required to make all the simultaneous wagers comfortably.

Hope that helps.

Quote: Payner12

I can play 2 machines at once. Theres a circle of about 30 of them. My wife will be on one, I will be on the next to her.
link to original post

This sounds like what is called 'Stadium' Craps.

There is one Bubble craps machine and all bettors bet on the results. There is also a Stadium Baccarat and Roulette option that can be played at your Kiosk.

I don't to burst anyone's Bubble (Pun intended) but the casino I play at has a small sign posted om every kiosk that says you do not earn any comp dollars on the electronic games,

Check your kiosk to see if this applies to your machine.

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: Payner12

I can play 2 machines at once. Theres a circle of about 30 of them. My wife will be on one, I will be on the next to her.
link to original post

This sounds like what is called 'Stadium' Craps.

There is one Bubble craps machine and all bettors bet on the results. There is also a Stadium Baccarat and Roulette option that can be played at your Kiosk.

I don't to burst anyone's Bubble (Pun intended) but the casino I play at has a small sign posted om every kiosk that says you do not earn any comp dollars on the electronic games,

Check your kiosk to see if this applies to your machine.
link to original post

This is true. But each property is different. Some don't want to punish their regular players for the AP's.

I haven't done the do/don't thing for about 4 years. but I did it a lot before then. I actually never found a casino that did not give points/comps on the odds bets for e-craps. The max bet one way is $79 if you don't want taxables. If it is a hybrid e-craps machine, the $1200 W-2G limit does not apply. The 3/4/5x odds + 6x on don't is great because your total bankroll does not change except for the boxcars. However, your bankroll sloshes from one machine to the other as you hit points or seven out. Some machines will lock up if you get a balance of more than $3000, so this take some planning to manage. As a solo player, I needed $10K so I could cash out credits over $2000 and keep playing without losing my two machines side by side. I never got heat, but locals who were at one casino every day got called out.

A guy did that on a Shuffle Master machine at RW for a couple of weeks. Offsetting $50 bets with max odds on Pass/Come and DP/DC. Don't know about the points, but he lost $50 every time he made offsetting bets and a twelve rolled. Which was about twice an hour.

If there's not much variance going on, the HA will bury your meager profits.

I'm reading another forum where there's outrage at most Vegas casinos running $25 or $50 tables, and the posters are having none of that when they came for $5 or $10 tables.

If I was doing a Doey-Don't with odds at a $15 table, it'd be with $15, $20, $25 odds on the Do side and $30 odds on the Don't side. If one side got ahead enough, I'd double my bets on that side. If it's a 10X odds table, I may just double my odds bets on that side and leave the line bets equal.

Quote: Tanko

A guy did that on a Shuffle Master machine at RW for a couple of weeks. Offsetting $50 bets with max odds on Pass/Come and DP/DC. Don't know about the points, but he lost $50 every time he made offsetting bets and a twelve rolled. Which was about twice an hour.
link to original post

With 3/4/5 odds, you only lose a quarter of a percent to box cars. If your bennies exceed that, then it is a low variance +EV play. It is boring as hell.

Quote: Mental

Quote: Tanko

A guy did that on a Shuffle Master machine at RW for a couple of weeks. Offsetting $50 bets with max odds on Pass/Come and DP/DC. Don't know about the points, but he lost $50 every time he made offsetting bets and a twelve rolled. Which was about twice an hour.
link to original post

With 3/4/5 odds, you only lose a quarter of a percent to box cars. If your bennies exceed that, then it is a low variance +EV play. It is boring as hell.
link to original post

if i need a low variance way to get tier points on a tier multiplier day, then i'm doing this.
unfortunately for my casino, it's only twice a year (aug and dec).
and if i already made my goal tier by dec, not worth the effort to make the next tier.

unfortunate #2: it takes twice the coin-in as vp to get a tier point on e-Craps