Plan bets ahead
Quote: EvenBobBecause I only have 20 seconds in between bets I pretty much have to think ahead that if this happens I'll do this or if that happens I'll do that.
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Nothing is worse than late bets being thrown in when the shooter is about to throw or the dice are already in the air.
I've even seen thrown chips hit the dice in the air.
Late bets slow the game and cause arguments too.
There is ample time to make bets before the dice are moved to the shooter.
Quote: BillHasRetiredIf I ever make a late bet, I call to the dealer, state the bet, and place the chips on the rail. Sometimes I win, sometimes it's a no-decision, occasionally I lose. Regardless, I always move the chips to the COME area after the dice stop and the call is made. Rarely have I gotten pushback. It does not interfere with the game, and it never affects the dice roll.
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So your casino allows call bets? Or do you have special privileges?
Regardless of dice location, if your rails show more than enough value to cover your clearly defined declared bets and your dealer understands, then she usually will accept those bets by acknowledgement or repetition. The dealer may NO BET your declaration if there is any uncertainty.
When the dice stop you must instantly make good your declaration by setting sufficient value in the Come. Your dealer will set up those bets, return any change, and then perform her Take and Pay procedure.
Try this for yourself at your favorite casino and report back.
A Call Bet by definition is a declaration made by someone who does not already clearly show sufficient value in his rails. Such a declaration will be distinctly NO BET by the dealer or the Boxman.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIn another thread our friend EvenBob wrote something that I wish all craps players would do: plan their bets ahead.
Quote: EvenBobBecause I only have 20 seconds in between bets I pretty much have to think ahead that if this happens I'll do this or if that happens I'll do that.
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Nothing is worse than late bets being thrown in when the shooter is about to throw or the dice are already in the air.
I've even seen thrown chips hit the dice in the air.
Late bets slow the game and cause arguments too.
There is ample time to make bets before the dice are moved to the shooter.
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As long as casinos allow it, it will still occur. All it will take is for a dealer to say "Sorry, sir, no call bets and no late bets." If it happens again, player gets a warning. If it happens again, player gets colored up and booted from the table.
Gene
But it's got to be one or more of these:
- I toke the dealers. Not a lot, and not every bet, but I do.
- When they disallow it, I shrug and apologize.
- I don't interfere with the throw by sticking my hands in.
- When I lose, I pay up.
In short, I realize I'm asking a favor by making a call bet, and don't think it's a right. I shrug when there's a hardass crew or pitboss. After all, it says it right there, "No Call Bets".
Quote: pwcrabbA Call Bet by definition is a declaration made by someone who does not already clearly show sufficient value in his rails. Such a declaration will be distinctly NO BET by the dealer or the Boxman.
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This is correct. "No call bets" is often misinterpreted as "no verbal bets" and I can understand why. But after 25 years you would think a seasoned craps player would have figured it out.
Tomorrow's lesson will cover the "Don't Pass Bar."
Quote: WigginsQuote: pwcrabbA Call Bet by definition is a declaration made by someone who does not already clearly show sufficient value in his rails. Such a declaration will be distinctly NO BET by the dealer or the Boxman.
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This is correct. "No call bets" is often misinterpreted as "no verbal bets" and I can understand why. But after 25 years you would think a seasoned craps player would have figured it out.
Tomorrow's lesson will cover the "Don't Pass Bar."
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I’m glad you quoted this as it looked like Alan and Bill may have missed it, given their later replies did not acknowledge it.
The disputes happen when a VERBAL bet is made but the chips weren't presented. Then the player could argue it was meant for the next roll.
Hence the argument (request) -- make all bets before the dice are in the shooter's hand.
For additional background, explore the teaching website Parlay Nation.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI guess it's different where I play. Chips to cover a bet must be on the layout.
The disputes happen when a VERBAL bet is made but the chips weren't presented. Then the player could argue it was meant for the next roll.
Hence the argument (request) -- make all bets before the dice are in the shooter's hand.
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Try an experiment next time you are there. Wait for the dice to be passed to the shooter. In a clear voice say: $15 coming. (Or whatever your table min says.) Do not throw chips in. See what your dealer does.
I’ve been able to make a come bet like that 100% of the time I’ve tried in many different casinos. Never played in Red Rock.
Quote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonI guess it's different where I play. Chips to cover a bet must be on the layout.
The disputes happen when a VERBAL bet is made but the chips weren't presented. Then the player could argue it was meant for the next roll.
Hence the argument (request) -- make all bets before the dice are in the shooter's hand.
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Try an experiment next time you are there. Wait for the dice to be passed to the shooter. In a clear voice say: $15 coming. (Or whatever your table min says.) Do not throw chips in. See what your dealer does.
I’ve been able to make a come bet like that 100% of the time I’ve tried in many different casinos. Never played in Red Rock.
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Sorry. I won't bet after the shooter has the dice.
That’s fine. But then please don’t spread misinformation about what or what not your casino would allow you to verbally bet after the shooter has the dice as if you have authoritative knowledge.
Quote: unJonNot even for science?
That’s fine. But then please don’t spread misinformation about what or what not your casino would allow you to verbally bet after the shooter has the dice as if you have authoritative knowledge.
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Ummm... but I've been there when dealers call no bet... and I've seen a player get trespassed when he argued the point.
But what do I know? I'm outvoted. And I saw a random shooter throw 18 yes in a row.
So I must be wrong.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonNot even for science?
That’s fine. But then please don’t spread misinformation about what or what not your casino would allow you to verbally bet after the shooter has the dice as if you have authoritative knowledge.
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Ummm... but I've been there when dealers call no bet... and I've seen a player get trespassed when he argued the point.
But what do I know? I'm outvoted. And I saw a random shooter throw 18 yes in a row.
So I must be wrong.
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Alan, why did the deal call no bet? Did the person not have clearly visible sufficient chips? So it was actually a call bet. Was the dealer not clear about what was said? Were the dice in the shooters hand so dealer felt it was too late?
Exercise in logic: if the dealer does not accept a verbal bet in one circumstance, does it follow that the casino policy is never accept a verbal bet?
Sigh.
Quote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonNot even for science?
That’s fine. But then please don’t spread misinformation about what or what not your casino would allow you to verbally bet after the shooter has the dice as if you have authoritative knowledge.
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Ummm... but I've been there when dealers call no bet... and I've seen a player get trespassed when he argued the point.
But what do I know? I'm outvoted. And I saw a random shooter throw 18 yes in a row.
So I must be wrong.
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Alan, why did the deal call no bet? Did the person not have clearly visible sufficient chips? So it was actually a call bet. Was the dealer not clear about what was said? Were the dice in the shooters hand so dealer felt it was too late?
Exercise in logic: if the dealer does not accept a verbal bet in one circumstance, does it follow that the casino policy is never accept a verbal bet?
Sigh.
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There have been multiple instances for various reasons including...
1.Shooter had the dice
2.Player had previous issues when they made verbal bets then said the dealer erred in which number
3.The eye called and questioned what was going on
4.Call bets are considered verbal and No Call Bets is the policy
As I said previously, a frequent player has been trespassed for making verbal bets, without putting chips on the table EVEN THOUGH HE HAD CHIPS IN THE RAIL and then fighting with the dealers FREQUENTLY when a different number hit -- and not necessarily a 7.
By the way this doesn't mean they don't make exceptions for certain well known players. But the exceptions are isolated and might happen once.
You're talking about a general practice of accepting bets as long as there are chips in the rail. But it doesn't happen.
If anything happens when there is a late bet the box will say TAKE BACK THE DICE to book the late bets.
Quote: unJonThank you. That all makes sense. I’ve never had a problem making a verbal come or pass line. And I’m not well known at any casino. Never tried a hop but have seen people do it, sometimes accepted and sometimes not by dealer.
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Do you remember the scandal at Bellagio where dealers were booking hop bets for players and paying them even though they didn't hit?
That scandal led to hop bets being added to craps layouts all over the country. Of course the dealers were fired and if I recall went to prison. (I'm going to check that.)
I don't know of any casino that would book a hop bet without chips covering the actual hop bet combinations.
Edited to add:
Yes. Bellagio dealers got prison.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/former-bellagio-craps-dealer-partners-get-prison-in-craps-scheme/amp/
Thanks, unJon, but I did not miss the definition. I'm still a touch new around here, and still getting used to the etiquette on this forum. No snark, just a quirk of this community I must have missed.Quote: unJonI’m glad you quoted this as it looked like Alan and Bill may have missed it, given their later replies did not acknowledge it.
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Yes, thank you, PWCrabb and Wiggins for enlightening me. Frankly, I thought "NCB" meant "no verbal bets" mostly because some dealers said so to others who were more fractious when they were 'No Bet' on a given throw. Frankly, I wasn't looking to see what their rails held.
I suppose the fact that I often hold up the chips when I do a verbal bet means I've never had a dealer explain the difference between Call and Verbal in my own personal play over the past 33 years of gambling.
(N.B.: Really, they're 'cheques' and not 'chips', but I will elide the pecksniffian approach here.)
I too was just educated. It clearly is an easy thing to misunderstandQuote: BillHasRetiredThanks, unJon, but I did not miss the definition. I'm still a touch new around here, and still getting used to the etiquette on this forum. No snark, just a quirk of this community I must have missed.Quote: unJonI’m glad you quoted this as it looked like Alan and Bill may have missed it, given their later replies did not acknowledge it.
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Yes, thank you, PWCrabb and Wiggins for enlightening me. Frankly, I thought "NCB" meant "no verbal bets" mostly because some dealers said so to others who were more fractious when they were 'No Bet' on a given throw. Frankly, I wasn't looking to see what their rails held.
I suppose the fact that I often hold up the chips when I do a verbal bet means I've never had a dealer explain the difference between Call and Verbal in my own personal play over the past 33 years of gambling.
(N.B.: Really, they're 'cheques' and not 'chips', but I will elide the pecksniffian approach here.)
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emphasis mine.Quote: linkWhen a player places a call bet, they practically have the dealer or another staff member book a bet for them provided that they don't have any chips left on the rack or enough money in hand to convert to more chips. The player simply announces or calls out what their wager should be and the casino extends credit to him or her.
https://www.casinonewsdaily.com/craps-guide/no-call-bets-rule/
