unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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August 28th, 2022 at 7:33:23 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: unJon

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: unJon

Hereís the reason some people leave their come odds on. You canít turn off the flat bet. Given that, why not take advantage of the free odds?

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This is truly being blinded by the math. You concede that the flat bet could lose but the odds bets are free having no house edge?

Wow. There's so much gobbledygook in that I don't know where to start.
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Please do start and elaborate. What is gobbledygook about leaving bets working, especially free bets ?
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There's no gobbledygook about leaving bets including odds working.

The gobbledygook is thinking odds bets have some mystical ability that flat bets dont have.

The mystical ability? Flat bets are exposed to the house edge but odds bets are free.

This is gobbledygook.

Odds bets are PAID without a house edge but odds bets still lose when the flat bet loses.

That's reality unless you're blinded by the math.

(I know, I really started it this time.)
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Iíll try.

For me the point of craps is the odds bet. Itís awesome. You get to bet a lot at high variance at true odds. When it hits you win more than you bet!

The flat bet is the cost. I hate the flat bet. But you have to pay the toll to get to the awesome odds bet.

Why should I pay the toll on a roll without getting the fun odds bet?
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Smaller place bets that also win (but get paid less than odds bets) aren't fun?

Let's measure fun:

I have a $12 bet on 8. You have a $10 come bet on 8 with double odds ($30 total).

A 8 is thrown again. I have fun... and do you have more fun?

But when a 7 is the next roll I have "no fun." Tell me, is your "no fun" less than my "no fun" because there was no house edge on your $20 odds?
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I dunno. To me those arenít comparable. At $30 place bet in the 8 is comparable to a $30 pass plus odds bet on the 8.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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August 28th, 2022 at 8:08:32 PM permalink
Quote: unJon



I dunno. To me those arenít comparable. At $30 place bet in the 8 is comparable to a $30 pass plus odds bet on the 8.
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They are not comparable. Your come bet with odds on the 8 must be rolled a second time for you to collect anything.

Of course if you're a DI you can do that.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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August 28th, 2022 at 8:29:18 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: unJon



I dunno. To me those arenít comparable. At $30 place bet in the 8 is comparable to a $30 pass plus odds bet on the 8.
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They are not comparable. Your come bet with odds on the 8 must be rolled a second time for you to collect anything.
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Gotta be the silliest statement that misguided players often make. There was no ďfirst timeĒ that the come bettor rolled for an 8 so how can there be a ďsecond timeĒ? Before any point was established for the come bet, the come bettor was reaping a 33% advantage over the casino
Itís all about making that GTA
Ace2
Ace2
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August 28th, 2022 at 8:42:49 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: Ace2

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: unJon

Hereís the reason some people leave their come odds on. You canít turn off the flat bet. Given that, why not take advantage of the free odds?

link to original post



This is truly being blinded by the math. You concede that the flat bet could lose but the odds bets are free having no house edge?

Wow. There's so much gobbledygook in that I don't know where to start.
link to original post

Please do start and elaborate. What is gobbledygook about leaving bets working, especially free bets ?
link to original post



There's no gobbledygook about leaving bets including odds working.

The gobbledygook is thinking odds bets have some mystical ability that flat bets dont have.

The mystical ability? Flat bets are exposed to the house edge but odds bets are free.

This is gobbledygook.

Odds bets are PAID without a house edge but odds bets still lose when the flat bet loses.

That's reality unless you're blinded by the math.

(I know, I really started it this time.)
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Are you actually being serious?

Of course you will lose odds bets sometimes (most of the time as a right side bettor) but, over the long term, you will win/lose nothing. Itís just fun variance around a break-even long-term result, so why turn them off ever ?
Itís all about making that GTA
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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August 28th, 2022 at 8:58:39 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

[
Smaller place bets that also win (but get paid less than odds bets) aren't fun?

Let's measure fun:

I have a $12 bet on 8. You have a $10 come bet on 8 with double odds ($30 total).

A 8 is thrown again. I have fun... and do you have more fun?

But when a 7 is the next roll I have "no fun." Tell me, is your "no fun" less than my "no fun" because there was no house edge on your $20 odds?
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The difference is that, for the same amount of fun, you are paying about 600% more house edge (relative) with a place bet than with a come bet plus 5x odds (what kind of fool would bet 2x free odds when he can bet 5x ???).

Apples to apples: with a $60 place bet on 8 youíre paying 1.66% vig on the entire amount. The come bettor is paying 1.41% on his $10 flat bet and nothing on his $50 odds bet., Saving so much that he can afford to leave his odds bets on during comeout

Thatís for the 6/8. Placing the other numbers is much more disastrous compared to come bets plus odds
Itís all about making that GTA
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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August 28th, 2022 at 8:59:44 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2



Of course you will lose odds bets sometimes (most of the time as a right side bettor) but, over the long term, you will win/lose nothing. Itís just fun variance around a break-even long-term result, so why turn them off ever ?
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Wow.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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August 28th, 2022 at 9:20:23 PM permalink
Losing one Come bet on the Come-out isn't so bad, and winning one isn't so bad either. Losing 2 or more Come-bets on the come-out gets to be awful, and you want to add odds to them?
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
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August 28th, 2022 at 10:29:49 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I

But when bets are on they can lose. And unless you have an unlimited bankroll OR you can truly influence the dice to avoid 7s why not limit your exposure to losing?

I really am a recreational player. My joy is being at the table for the longest period of time with the smallest possible exposure.

The rest of you -- making come bets, piling on odds, having bets working all the time, must have some ability to predict the future that I don't have.
]

From what I read, you are primarily a place bettor, which means you freely choose to pay about 10x the house edge of a pass/come bet with 3-4-5 odds. 4% vs 0.37%. Yet you chastise someone for leaving their bets on during comeout, which will increase their betting action by about 8.5/6 - 1 = 42%. Has nothing to do with hot shooters or what the shooter wants to roll.

Youíre good with a 981% increase but 42% is way too much. Make any sense ?
Itís all about making that GTA
wizardofbuffalo
wizardofbuffalo
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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August 28th, 2022 at 10:34:37 PM permalink
The lingo and terminology is confusing to me. I will go again and try later in the week.

I will be playing 25 on the pass line. Once a point is established I will place odds on the 6 and 8 at 30ea. I will tell them to keep my bets working. If a point is established and made, I will win 25 for my pass line bet but leave the numbers bets on risking $60 on the next come out roll. If the next come out roll is a 7out, I'm only losing the 60 in numbers bets but will win the pass line 25. So technically I'm only down 35 vs maybe making 35 if the new point happens to be a 6 or 8. That seems pretty EV to me.

Thanks to all for the input. I'll keep ya posted. Or maybe this is too confusing and I should stick to house money or pair square.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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August 28th, 2022 at 10:57:57 PM permalink
Ace, I'm guessing that my $52 across at a $10 table is LESS money potentially lost than two or possibly even one come bet with 3, 4, 5 odds.

If you're happy playing your way then please continue.

But I don't know which number will be thrown next. So I'm going to make the smallest bets and hope that the roll will continue.

I play this way because I've seen people load up numbers with come bets and odds and never hit a repeater. That they had so much money on the table with no house edge on the payoffs means zilch when a 7 is rolled because 100% of the bets still lose.

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