WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 25
Thanks for this post from:
RogerKintDeMangoDJTeddyBearYoyomama
April 17th, 2022 at 4:40:02 AM permalink
All the MGM properties have finally changed to no charge on vig/juice up front for craps buys and lay bets. They only charge AFTER the win. This reduces the house edge by half and is a big deal.

There has been some confusion on day shift at Park MGM (my casino) where they will charge up front except 4/10. Swing shift won稚 charge up front at all. I asked the shift manager on swing to talk to day shift, and he said he did and they are going to fix it.

But this makes their Craps Buys and Lay bets the most competitive on the strip, let alone definitely in all of Vegas. Charging the vig after the win reduces the house edge by slightly more than half.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 194
  • Posts: 10735
April 17th, 2022 at 6:53:15 AM permalink
That is HUGE!

I normally place the inside numbers.

If this rule is still in place when I visit in June, I will definitely switch to the outside. 👍 (Unless I知 mistaken, mathematically, 6/8 place bets are still better than buying them with a late vig, but worse than the late vig 4/10.)

Of course, two months is plenty of time for the bean counters to make some noise and get the rule reversed. 🤯

Is there a minimum bet for this?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 25
April 17th, 2022 at 7:14:28 AM permalink
It痴 a new rule they just rolled out so I doubt they値l be rolling it back. I think if anything they値l keep it as people won稚 lose as quickly. I had wondered too if buying the 6/8 was worth it when you pay the juice after? I don稚 know for certain.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 110
  • Posts: 5418
April 17th, 2022 at 7:34:06 AM permalink
Clarify: suppose I buy the 10 for $100 under the "only pay commission on the win" rule and it wins. What do I get back - my original $100 plus $190 ($200 minus 5%), which is $290, or 95% of the whole $300, which is $285? And I assume the original rule was, I had to bet $105 against the casino's $200.
WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 25
April 17th, 2022 at 7:48:08 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Clarify: suppose I buy the 10 for $100 under the "only pay commission on the win" rule and it wins. What do I get back - my original $100 plus $190 ($200 minus 5%), which is $290, or 95% of the whole $300, which is $285? And I assume the original rule was, I had to bet $105 against the casino's $200.
link to original post



Don稚 quote me on this because I am a lay bettor. But I believe it痴 5% of the commission of the flat bet when you Buy. There after you roll a 10, you壇 be paid $195 in winnings, unless you wanted to take it down, you壇 get $295 total.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 5035
April 17th, 2022 at 9:08:13 AM permalink
This is very important to me because I typically lay a remaining box number when only one is needed for the Bonus Craps (All, Tall, Small) bets.

At Red Rock and Suncoast a $60 lay on 5, 6, 8, 9 would be $2 and a $50 lay on 4, 10 would be $1.

My first question: any change with their Bonus craps bets?
Ace2
Ace2 
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 1689
Thanks for this post from:
Yoyomama
April 17th, 2022 at 9:15:48 AM permalink
When the commission is charged on win only, you never wager the commission amount...it's deducted from the win amount. So if you wager $100 on 4/10 and win then you collect your $100 plus $195 net winnings ($200 minus the $5 commission). If you lose then you lose your $100

Inverse for lay bets. You'd wager $200 to win $95. Same edge of 5/300 = 1.67%

This change makes the buying the 5/9 a much better deal (2%) than placing it (4%), and puts 5/9 in the range of buying the 4/10 (commission on win only, 1.67%) and placing the 6/8 (1.52%). It's still cheaper to place the 6/8 than to buy it

Not that I'd ever make a buy, lay or place bet. All of those edges are still six or seven times the edge of betting don't pass with 3/4/5 odds, so I'll stick with the don't

Caesars should one-up MGM by charging the commission on 6/8 on a hard 6/8 win only. That would bring the buy 6/8 edge to 0.45% and there would be no reason to place any number. Even I would make this bet occasionally
Last edited by: Ace2 on Apr 17, 2022
It痴 all about making that GTA
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 110
  • Posts: 5418
April 17th, 2022 at 10:07:13 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

When the commission is charged on win only, you never wager the commission amount...it's deducted from the win amount. So if you wager $100 on 4/10 and win then you collect your $100 plus $195 net winnings ($200 minus the $5 commission). If you lose then you lose your $100


So the commission is 5% of the original bet, but it's only paid if you win? That's a bit of an eye-raiser...especially if they're doing this on the Strip.
unJon
unJon 
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 3475
April 17th, 2022 at 10:16:21 AM permalink
Do they really let you buy the 5 and 9 with vig on win? I think my first post on this forum was starting a thread asking if anyone knew a casino in Vegas that let you do that. Funny.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
speedycrap
speedycrap
Joined: Oct 13, 2013
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 1268
April 17th, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM permalink
Buying 5/9? I have basically never seen anybody doing it. Even with a few hundred dollars on it.

  • Jump to: