Come bets: Pass line come out roll
I play lots of come bets and noticed this behavior in many casinos.
If this is correct, this should mean a noticeable advantage of come bets over pass line and place/buy bets.
Has anyone else seen this or agree/disagree?
If you know how to press your odds, odds bets might be a better bet than place bets. I just lose all patience with a Come-out 7 knocking all my Come bet points down.
The maths persons here recommend betting Come bets over placing Place bets because there's a lower house edge, but Pass Line and Come bets have the same house advantage.
The Don't Pass & the Don't Come bets have a slightly lower house edge.
The odds bets for either side of the line have no house edge. It's just that you'll win 40% of the time on the Do side and 60% of the time on the Don't side with the odds bets.
you can't make a come bet when the shooter is coming out. I think you mean to say if your come bet became a point to resolve, it loses when a 7 is rolled. You could name this bet a "traveled come bet" for short.Quote: ChumpChangeCome bets lose on a Pass Line Come-out 7 winner.
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Because the shooter wants to roll a 7 when coming out, the house allows any bets to be turned off or removed that can be. That does not include the traveled come bet which is a contract bet. The odds though are not contract bets, and it is standard to turn them off without asking. They are thus assumed to be off. You instead can ask to have them turned on.
There is no advantage to the player in turning off these free odds bets assuming random rolling. If there was, the thing to do would be to not make these bets at all, since they are vulnerable to a 7 being rolled at all times [unless turned off]. Simply, they cannot lose or win if off. The Wizard recommends telling the dealer to have your free odds bets on instead of off. I have found the dealer likes a player to use the expression "odds always working"
PS: that the dealer returns those bets to you like the OP describes, is a statement. It is not to the advantage of the house for that bet to exist, even though the next roll is a come-out by rule. If the house benefited, they'd figure out a way to keep them up for you.
Quote: AlanMendelsonTo answer your basic question this is the standard way come bets with odds are treated by casinos.
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Why do people play a game, they know not the rules of?
Quote: DeMangoQuote: AlanMendelsonTo answer your basic question this is the standard way come bets with odds are treated by casinos.
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Why do people play a game, they know not the rules of?
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Every day there are new players in casinos who have no idea about video poker paytables or odds bets at craps or how to split 8s in blackjack.
Every day there must be people who do a Google search for gambling info and end up here.
There are three employees at a craps table. Two standing, one sitting. As I understand it, the standing workers handle bets. Is this correct? Do they split the table 50-50 or does the sitting guy handle bets in front of him?
Quote: billryanI don't play craps at all but someone asked me this so this seems like a good place to ask.
There are three employees at a craps table. Two standing, one sitting. As I understand it, the standing workers handle bets. Is this correct? Do they split the table 50-50 or does the sitting guy handle bets in front of him?
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The box man sits and supervises the game and is in charge of the bank.
At a full table three dealers stand and one boxman sits.
The third standing dealer has the stick and handles center table bets.
Quote: billryanI don't play craps at all but someone asked me this so this seems like a good place to ask.
There are three employees at a craps table. Two standing, one sitting. As I understand it, the standing workers handle bets. Is this correct? Do they split the table 50-50 or does the sitting guy handle bets in front of him?
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Hi billryan, and welcome to the forum.
Everyone starts as a rookie.
Quote: billryanI don't play craps at all but someone asked me this so this seems like a good place to ask.
There are three employees at a craps table. Two standing, one sitting. As I understand it, the standing workers handle bets. Is this correct? Do they split the table 50-50 or does the sitting guy handle bets in front of him?
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So how do you KNOW that betting systems and/or strategies do not work at craps? Apparently, you have no first-hand knowledge and those you might be listening to apparently do not profit often. Why not do some real research; observe, document, plot, and detail the myriad and scope of wagering, and then summarize the actual results?
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymQuote: billryanI don't play craps at all but someone asked me this so this seems like a good place to ask.
There are three employees at a craps table. Two standing, one sitting. As I understand it, the standing workers handle bets. Is this correct? Do they split the table 50-50 or does the sitting guy handle bets in front of him?
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So how do you KNOW that betting systems and/or strategies do not work at craps? Apparently, you have no first-hand knowledge and those you might be listening to apparently do not profit often. Why not do some real research; observe, document, plot, and detail the myriad and scope of wagering, and then summarize the actual results?
tuttigym
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I've been betting all my life, from Bingo, Playing live poker, sports, UTH, etc. Always looking for and edge. What I have not pursued is the game of craps. Last month I watched dozens of Youtube video on how to play craps, mostly on the Don't side because it provides a slightly lower house edge and I like the contrarian route, because that just who I am. I also practiced on the computer. I have now played a total of ten live sessions, and I have posted 7 wins, 2 losses and one push. Of my two losses I lost $1000 each. But after each loss, I go home and figure out what I could have done differently. I have asked questions on this forum and have received some solid advice. The last three weekends, I have now posted a $1800, $2500, $2800, $100, $1100 and $2700 win. On an $8200 run using my system. Crazy, there are times at the table we have more players playing the Don't Pass. Players who asked for help I tell them to do what I do and even the new players walk out as winners, But they were very lucky, my system requires a large bankroll to withstand long rolls. I won $2700 last night and that includes surviving multiple 20 plus rolls and one 43 Roll!
Quote: VegasriderI won $2700 last night and that includes surviving multiple 20 plus rolls and one 43 Roll!
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I havent been at a table with 43 rolls by one shooter in over a year and I play almost every day.
I cant even imagine a table with multiple 20+ rolls and 43 rolls by one shooter.
And you still won on the don't?
43 rolls is no big deal..,takes about 26 minutes assuming 100 rolls per hour. Such a roll (or longer) will occur about every 412 shooters. If you average five hours of play per day, you should see a roll of this length (or longer) about once per week.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderI won $2700 last night and that includes surviving multiple 20 plus rolls and one 43 Roll!
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I havent been at a table with 43 rolls by one shooter in over a year and I play almost every day.
I cant even imagine a table with multiple 20+ rolls and 43 rolls by one shooter.
And you still won on the don't?
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderI won $2700 last night and that includes surviving multiple 20 plus rolls and one 43 Roll!
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I havent been at a table with 43 rolls by one shooter in over a year and I play almost every day.
I cant even imagine a table with multiple 20+ rolls and 43 rolls by one shooter.
And you still won on the don't?
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I only play one number, which is the point so I always have the math on my side on every roll, once the point has been established. I believe the fire bet came in so I lost at least three full bets at various units. I always lay 6X. How do I keep track of the rolls? I always get a stack of white ($1 chips) and I use them to keep track of the rolls, stacking them from one end of the rack after each roll. For me, it's important to know how many rolls has been rolled W/O a 7 or how long a shooter has been rolling. And it gives me something to do because the Don't is my ONLY bet. My sessions are at least 6 hrs long, I normally like to play for 8 hrs, but I have played up to 12 hrs.
Quote: VegasriderQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderI won $2700 last night and that includes surviving multiple 20 plus rolls and one 43 Roll!
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I havent been at a table with 43 rolls by one shooter in over a year and I play almost every day.
I cant even imagine a table with multiple 20+ rolls and 43 rolls by one shooter.
And you still won on the don't?
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I only play one number, which is the point so I always have the math on my side on every roll, once the point has been established. I believe the fire bet came in so I lost at least three full bets at various units. I always lay 6X. How do I keep track of the rolls? I always get a stack of white ($1 chips) and I use them to keep track of the rolls, stacking them from one end of the rack after each roll. For me, it's important to know how many rolls has been rolled W/O a 7 or how long a shooter has been rolling. And it gives me something to do because the Don't is my ONLY bet. My sessions are at least 6 hrs long, I normally like to play for 8 hrs, but I have played up to 12 hrs.
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So your system is don’t pass with full odds? No don’t come and nothing else?
I’m just curious more than anything. I thought it would be something more complicated based on the comments you got from dealers.
But let me ask someone who has played craps a lot? How often do you see fire bets come in during your hours of play and if they do hit, has it gone past 4 points? This is the only way I could go broke.
Quote: Vegasrider@Unjohn, Y, but there are other factors that comes into play. But to be honest, 10 live sessions is not large enough sample size.
But let me ask someone who has played craps a lot? How often do you see fire bets come in during your hours of play and if they do hit, has it gone past 4 points? This is the only way I could go broke.
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I only play at casinos that offer Bonus Craps. The ALL hits about once per session that I'm there. Never has a shooter hit the all twice in a row at my table.
You only need ten rolls to hit the ALL. Its been hit in 15-17 rolls typically.
I dont think I've been on a table with 20+ rolls in months.
I need to find some DIs to play with.
I don't have time to work out the math right now, but I estimate the probability of winning the ALL in <18 rolls would be VERY remote.Quote: AlanMendelson
You only need ten rolls to hit the ALL. Its been hit in 15-17 rolls typically.
You should see a 20+ roll about every 80 minutes, so you must be playing exclusively with tourists. I arrive to Vegas next week for a few days so you should come to my table...in all my years of shooting, the shortest roll I ever had was 28
Quote: Ace2I don't have time to work out the math right now, but I estimate the probability of winning the ALL in <18 rolls would be VERY remote.Quote: AlanMendelson
You only need ten rolls to hit the ALL. Its been hit in 15-17 rolls typically.
You should see a 20+ roll about every 80 minutes, so you must be playing exclusively with tourists. I arrive to Vegas next week for a few days so you should come to my table...in all my years of shooting, the shortest roll I ever had was 28
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PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. Please invite me. Oh how I would love to be at the table of a shooter who says "the shortest roll I ever had was 28."
In fact, I will be so appreciative of this opportunity I promise to share my profits with you.
Please give me 24 hours notice. You can PM me. I will meet you anytime at the casino of your choice.
Quote: Vegasrider@Unjohn, Y, but there are other factors that comes into play. But to be honest, 10 live sessions is not large enough sample size.
But let me ask someone who has played craps a lot? How often do you see fire bets come in during your hours of play and if they do hit, has it gone past 4 points? This is the only way I could go broke.
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I’ve only ever played at a place with a fire bet once, and only for an hour. I would assume more than four points happens as often as the odds would predict it does.
Quote: unJonQuote: Vegasrider@Unjohn, Y, but there are other factors that comes into play. But to be honest, 10 live sessions is not large enough sample size.
But let me ask someone who has played craps a lot? How often do you see fire bets come in during your hours of play and if they do hit, has it gone past 4 points? This is the only way I could go broke.
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I’ve only ever played at a place with a fire bet once, and only for an hour. I would assume more than four points happens as often as the odds would predict it does.
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While I haven't played at a casino with the Fire Bet in the last four years I used to play it all the time at Caesars and Rio.
I never threw all six points but I threw 5 points about four or five times -- i dont really remember. I never even set the sixth point.
I hit all six numbers only twice. Once at Rio with another shooter. And once at Harrah's Rincon playing card craps.
I've hit four points with other shooters and shooting myself many times.
But I really look forward to playing with a shooter who says he's never thrown fewer than 28 times when holding the dice.
I'll amend my offer: I'll split my profits 50/50 with such a shooter (Ace2).
Surely you mean "the longest roll, of all my rolls, has never been less than 28 in a session" ... but of course typically shorter. sometimes point and seven out like everybody else too. ... otherwise you'd own the casino by nowQuote: Ace2I don't have time to work out the math right now, but I estimate the probability of winning the ALL in <18 rolls would be VERY remote.Quote: AlanMendelson
You only need ten rolls to hit the ALL. Its been hit in 15-17 rolls typically.
You should see a 20+ roll about every 80 minutes, so you must be playing exclusively with tourists. I arrive to Vegas next week for a few days so you should come to my table...in all my years of shooting, the shortest roll I ever had was 28
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Quote: VegasriderTo clarify, since fire bets does not include duplicate points, shooter shooting more than 4 points, I COULD go broke in my session. The longest roll I have had was around 35, unfortunately as. Don’t player. That was one of my $1000 losses, but actually lost more since Inhad more than 1k to begin the roll. But that was when I was loading the bases, I have tweaked my strategy to only having one number going against my 7.
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Do you stick with your Dont strategy if the DC lands on a 6 or 8, or do you decline that bet and wait for the next DC roll?
Quote: VegasriderPlus those numbers provide the largest payouts when a 7 does roll so it is essential for me to play them.
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Is it really essential when you're betting six to win 5?
I wouldn't call that the largest payouts.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderPlus those numbers provide the largest payouts when a 7 does roll so it is essential for me to play them.
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Is it really essential when you're betting six to win 5?
I wouldn't call that the largest payouts.
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Larger than 6:4 or 6:3 he gets on the other numbers.
Quote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderPlus those numbers provide the largest payouts when a 7 does roll so it is essential for me to play them.
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Is it really essential when you're betting six to win 5?
I wouldn't call that the largest payouts.
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Larger than 6:4 or 6:3 he gets on the other numbers.
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With 4 and 10 you have fewer ways to lose.
I guess I look at betting differently.
Quote: VegasriderI use to put all my chips in my backpack and take it home with me, come back the next day and sit down with the same chips and just turned it into the same game, but a long break.
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What poker game allowed you to do that?
When you leave a $200 game you are limited to a $200 buyin when you return.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderI use to put all my chips in my backpack and take it home with me, come back the next day and sit down with the same chips and just turned it into the same game, but a long break.
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What poker game allowed you to do that?
When you leave a $200 game you are limited to a $200 buyin when you return.
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This was when I was playing $30-60 Limit-Hold ‘’Em. I’m old school.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderPlus those numbers provide the largest payouts when a 7 does roll so it is essential for me to play them.
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Is it really essential when you're betting six to win 5?
I wouldn't call that the largest payouts.
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Larger than 6:4 or 6:3 he gets on the other numbers.
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With 4 and 10 you have fewer ways to lose.
I guess I look at betting differently.
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Same way to look at it. True odds are true odds.
Quote: VegasriderQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VegasriderI use to put all my chips in my backpack and take it home with me, come back the next day and sit down with the same chips and just turned it into the same game, but a long break.
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What poker game allowed you to do that?
When you leave a $200 game you are limited to a $200 buyin when you return.
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This was when I was playing $30-60 Limit-Hold ‘’Em. I’m old school.
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I'm not familiar with limit. What is the buyin? Is it capped or is it unlimited what you bring to the table?
Quote: daveyandersen1really? Really?? REALLY??? your not bending the truth?? ACE2about the 28 r0lls
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I certainly hope not. I offered Ace 50% of my profit when he's the shooter. He only needs to make a passline bet.
I think that's a darn good AP move for a shooter who says his shortest roll had 28 throws. If only 20 throws are non horn numbers, and we're at a $15 table, the gross on 20 throws could be:
20 X $21 = $420
The net could be $420 - $96 = $324
Quote: Ace2. I arrive to Vegas next week for a few days so you should come to my table...in all my years of shooting, the shortest roll I ever had was 28.
Whoa, Nelly!
Gotta put hip boots on, the manure is getting really deep and odoriferous.
I I think ACE2 should be careful what he says about LONG ROLLS at craps.... Craps players are both gullible and asperational .... Its easy to get our hopes up...Quote: AlanMendelsonI guess we'll never hear about this again.
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A shooter got the dice and had a long roll, and a profitable one. When he finally severed out our base dealer said it was probably a half-hour roll.
I looked at my watch: it was 12 minutes.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm reminded of an incident at Caesars many years ago. At the time I was checking my watch for every shooter to time their rolls.
A shooter got the dice and had a long roll, and a profitable one. When he finally severed out our base dealer said it was probably a half-hour roll.
I looked at my watch: it was 12 minutes.
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It’s more about the number of rolls you roll, not time. Depending on how many players and what they are betting, the time between rolls can be as long as over a minute or less than 5-10 seconds. This is why I keep track of the rolls vs using time
Quote: VegasriderQuote: AlanMendelsonI'm reminded of an incident at Caesars many years ago. At the time I was checking my watch for every shooter to time their rolls.
A shooter got the dice and had a long roll, and a profitable one. When he finally severed out our base dealer said it was probably a half-hour roll.
I looked at my watch: it was 12 minutes.
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It’s more about the number of rolls you roll, not time. Depending on how many players and what they are betting, the time between rolls can be as long as over a minute or less than 5-10 seconds. This is why I keep track of the rolls vs using time
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I had a long roll one time, and I chopped into half and made two 6-inch subs.
