tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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June 21st, 2021 at 7:18:45 PM permalink
Mr. Dieter: I do not understand why anyone would obsess about a payout that is short of perfect. All the casino is doing is increasing their profit margin. Think about what a small that amount that actually is 5%. When one purchases something retail, the mark-up is usually over 50% over he retailer's cost. How about an auto mechanic doubling the cost of parts replaced for repairs. Are you aware of these profits, and do you overtly complain?

I like your definition on HE. How does that differ from the HA? Won't the HA actually increase the HE simply because losses incurred because of the HA are, by and large, greater than wins? A 7 out takes down all the right side bets at once while a point winner only pays for that one number. At that point the 5% is really meaningless. Just sayin'.

tuttigym
Ace2
Ace2
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June 21st, 2021 at 7:26:37 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Mr. Ace2 and Mr billryan: There may be 1% of players who get into the weeds and think about "variance" and HE or HA. The rest of the vast majority of "players" gamble to have some fun, enjoy the excitement, and maybe win. By misdirecting ones focus with gambling micro-management is not helpful.

tuttigym

Knowing the edge and variance is not micromanaging, it's just understanding the very basics of the game. I agree that many people don't understand the basics...and these are generally the people that get in trouble. Just like people that get in over their head with a credit card or mortgage without understanding how they work, even though they are all very simple
Itís all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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June 21st, 2021 at 8:05:51 PM permalink
Mr. tuttigym might be an HA denier. No amount of losing 16% on a keno machine will change his mind.
Mission146
Mission146
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June 22nd, 2021 at 3:56:53 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Mr. Ace2 and Mr billryan: There may be 1% of players who get into the weeds and think about "variance" and HE or HA. The rest of the vast majority of "players" gamble to have some fun, enjoy the excitement, and maybe win. By misdirecting ones focus with gambling micro-management is not helpful.

tuttigym



I doubt it's that high. Anyway, very few people in that 1% of players would say that you can't have fun, excitement and maybe win. I don't care what you do, personally, but would prefer for people to be making an informed decision.

Would you buy a car without knowing the price? "Hand me that suitcase full of money and I will take out what the car costs." All the, "1%," are really trying to do is tell you the cost of the car and give you some specs on it. At that point, you can make a better decision as to whether or not you think the car is worth buying.

Secondly, if there were two five-reel slot machines each with a $3.00 Max Bet, which we will say is the only possible bet for the purpose of this question, and I told you one had an RTP of 95% whilst the other was 87%, which would you play?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Dieter
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Dieter
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Mission146
June 22nd, 2021 at 4:08:41 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Are you aware of these profits, and do you overtly complain?

I like your definition on HE. How does that differ from the HA? Won't the HA actually increase the HE simply because losses incurred because of the HA are, by and large, greater than wins?



If they couldn't make any money, they wouldn't offer the game. There are costs - licenses, real estate development, that fancy expensive table, new dice, staff, cocktails... etc. House edge (or house advantage - pretty much the same thing) are how they get a piece of the action in the game to pay for those things.

Just like I have the option of price shopping and comparing a $1 tube of toothpaste with a $7 tube of toothpaste, house edge (or advantage) is a way of price comparing different kinds of betting.

Of course, if you really like Big Six, Keno, and the latest life changing jackpot slot machines, the fact that pass line on craps is a less expensive way to gamble doesn't matter. If you like throwing the dice, you don't get to do that in roulette - but you do get to pick which of the many dice table bets you want to make. Those different bets have different house edges, and you can use the house edge on the various bets to help you decide which you might like to make.
May the cards fall in your favor.
tuttigym
tuttigym
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Mission146
June 23rd, 2021 at 7:28:37 PM permalink
Mission 146 & Dieter: Patrons of casinos do not really have a choice because the industry is pretty much a monopoly. The payouts and HA & HE have basically been fixed throughout regardless of the venue. Our only choices are the games themselves and within those games are wagers ranging from okay to awful. We pick our poison based on table minimums, our gambling budget, our risk tolerance, and our venue preferences. In Biloxi, MS, the $1 tube of toothpaste is the Palace with its $3 craps table or Treasure Bay with its $2 carnival card games. The $7 toothpaste is the upscale Beau Revage or the Hard Rock. However, within those entities lurks the same payouts on identical wagers. The patrons are creatures of habit and will continue to play and bet as they always do trying to find that elusive "hot" table or "magic" touch that will bring them riches and stories to tell their friends, children, grand children, etc.

And so it goes. Informing anyone who will listen about the best bets, the lowest HA/HE, etc. all goes up in smoke as the cheers and screams from the craps table abound because someone just won $1,000 on $100 bet on the hard 8 or better yet a big winner hits a parley number at the roulette wheel. Ain't it grand?

tuttigym
Dieter
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Dieter
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Mission146
June 23rd, 2021 at 8:29:51 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Patrons of casinos do not really have a choice because the industry is pretty much a monopoly. The payouts and HA & HE have basically been fixed throughout regardless of the venue.



You can pay & play. Or not.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Joeman
Joeman
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Mission146
June 25th, 2021 at 11:28:09 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Mission 146 & Dieter: Patrons of casinos do not really have a choice because the industry is pretty much a monopoly. The payouts and HA & HE have basically been fixed throughout regardless of the venue.

This is simply not true. Take blackjack for example. Some casinos offer 3:2 BJ, whereas some only offer 6:5. In fact, I have been to casinos where there is a 3:2 BJ table right next to a 6:5 BJ table with the same minimums. I have also seen a full 6:5 table next to an empty 3:2 table. That tells me that either players don't know the difference, or don't care if they play a game where they will lose more quickly.

Instead of saying patrons don't have a choice, I think it would be more accurate to say "Most patrons of casinos either don't know they have a choice or don't care."

That said, for any single given recreational player on any single given night, there would not be much if any appreciable difference in his results playing 3:2 vs. 6:5.
Last edited by: Joeman on Jun 25, 2021
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
TomG
TomG
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June 26th, 2021 at 12:15:35 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

How does Mr. "Establishment" explain that approximately 98% of the time the novice is NOT going to win when the perception is he will?



Both a novice and experienced player will win over 49% of all passline bets, which is a lot higher than 2%.
tuttigym
tuttigym
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June 26th, 2021 at 3:20:17 PM permalink
Mr.TomG: I am sorry, sir, ALL PL bets are irrevocably tied to a point that is established as an integral part of the game of craps. If a player wins his PL bet 30% of the time with point conversions as well as come outs, he might do okay, but probably not.

tuttigym

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