Any good reason not to leave place bets on during come out roll?
just a habit. I accept the risks.
Quote: FleaStiffI have my odds always working and I have my place bets always working.
just a habit. I accept the risks.
I do as well
I turn off place bets. I work odds about half the time. Nothing behind the latter, just sometimes I decide I would be happy getting all those odds back if a seven winner comes.Quote: FleaStiffI have my odds always working and I have my place bets always working.
just a habit. I accept the risks.
Quote: misterbeeCompletely understand, but I am there to gamble! I fully accept the HE and know there's no point in trying to "time" the dice. Also, it kind of feels like an advantage for the player, because the casinos automatically turn the bets off during the come-out roll. Don't they stand to make more money whenever money is in play?
In a way they dont want to make more money. That would eliminate big wins and make bigger loses. A game like that people would not play. It already is crazy volatile.
They make more money by keeping the game going rather than have delays over place bets being taken down and then restored. the casino's house edge applies only when the dice are being rolled' so efficiency helps the casino.Quote: misterbee, it kind of feels like an advantage for the player, because the casinos automatically turn the bets off during the come-out roll. Don't they stand to make more money whenever money is in play?
The part that always gives them a pause is why I win all my odds bets on a 7 come out roll because I'm on the darkside of the force.
I wait to make the place bet because coming out, the seven, the most common single roll, is a winner for you. Why place another bet that will lose when it comes? There's plenty of time to make the place bet after a point is established.Quote: misterbeeMy standard opening is betting the pass line and once a number is rolled I take full odds and then place the 6 and/or 8. Is there any good reason not to place the 6 and 8 on the come-out roll along with my pass line bet? I know a seven wipes them out, but also does on every subsequent roll. I know the odds and house edge doesn't change, but it seems like if you're betting the 6/8 (or any other number for that matter) you might as well bet it all the time. Thoughts?
Quote: AyecarumbaI wait to make the place bet because coming out, the seven, the most common single roll, is a winner for you. Why place another bet that will lose when it comes? There's plenty of time to make the place bet after a point is established.
We don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.
Because people like to root for the shooter and seven is a winner on the comeout for the shooter.Quote: misterbeeWe don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.
Quote: misterbeeWe don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.
True, but why choose to have bets that lose when others win, when the most common single number is thrown? I don't think you see it as a hedge. Embrace the seven winner...
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.Quote: unJonBecause people like to root for the shooter and seven is a winner on the comeout for the shooter.
Since most people are rooting for a 7, it became routine to turn off those place bets and odds on a come out roll.
Of course, why hard ways remain on, and only in Vegas, is still a mystery.
Also, dice setters tend to set them differently on come outs vs mid roll. I’m not saying that it works at all, but why fight karma?
The Place 6,8 has a standard deviation of 1.08. If you want to get a handle on how boringly that takes your money, bet them for a good while, with no other bets on the table, especially just one or the other, not both.
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
Quote: odiousgambitI wouldn't have place bets working any more often than is customary, for a reason I haven't seen here yet: the variance is very low. Of course that is an argument against making them at all.
The Place 6,8 has a standard deviation of 1.08. If you want to get a handle on how boringly that takes your money, bet them for a good while, with no other bets on the table, especially just one or the other, not both.
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
Not that my system is any better than another, but if I place the 6/8 I will do it once to pay the odds on my come if it hits. For example, at a 3/4/5 table you can place a $60 8 and have a $25 come bet. If an 8 is rolled you win $70 and the dealer takes $125 for odds on the 8 and tosses you a red chip back.
The two answers here that make the most sense are why have it working when a 7 wins? And right (light?) side bettors (who will make place rather than lay bets) are rooting for the shooter.
Also would anyone turn off a lay bet on a come out? Similar principle applies, except then everyone can be happy.
Quote: cowboyBut there is no Come bet on a Come-out roll and using the place to pay the odds does not work unless that number rolls after a point is established.
The two answers here that make the most sense are why have it working when a 7 wins? And right (light?) side bettors (who will make place rather than lay bets) are rooting for the shooter.
My last post was confusing. I was no longer responding to what to do on the come out roll. I was responding to odious’s post about the standard deviation of place bets and what happens when left out for a long time.
Quote: cowboyBut there is no Come bet on a Come-out roll and using the place to pay the odds does not work unless that number rolls after a point is established.
The two answers here that make the most sense are why have it working when a 7 wins? And right (light?) side bettors (who will make place rather than lay bets) are rooting for the shooter.
Also would anyone turn off a lay bet on a come out? Similar principle applies, except then everyone can be happy.
As a committed darkside player I stopped caring about the rolls that make people happy a long time ago :-)
Quote: unJonBecause people like to root for the shooter and seven is a winner on the comeout for the shooter.
That's really changed at my local.
A comeout seven is often met with grumbling and flying cheques as the All / Tall / Small gets reset.
A dealer remarked recently, "I remember when you guys cheered comeout naturals."
And that’s EXACTLY why I proposed a version of ATS where come out rolls are ignored.Quote: CalderThat's really changed at my local.
A comeout seven is often met with grumbling and flying cheques as the All / Tall / Small gets reset.
A dealer remarked recently, "I remember when you guys cheered comeout naturals."
Same house edge. Lower hold, but also less wasted time.
Quote: DJTeddyBearAnd that’s EXACTLY why I proposed a version of ATS where come out rolls are ignored.
Same house edge. Lower hold, but also less wasted time.
How could it be the same house edge when the house won't collect those bets a certain percentage of the time?
Assuming I am answering the right question, a dealer wouldn't decline to allow a bet because it's disadvantageous to the house for edge reasons, like declining to allow making a don't pass bet after the point is established, as that favors the playerQuote: cowboyHow could it be the same house edge when the house won't take those bets a certain percentage of the time?
I'm pretty sure you can make most bets anytime at many places if you tell them you want them working, but those places that decline just don't want the confusion of allowing a bet that is instantly "off"
Quote: odiousgambitAssuming I am answering the right question, ...
I clarified my question and if you are answering it, I do not understand your answer.
It changes the HE per roll but not the HE per resolved bet. Because the house also wouldn’t be marking other rolls that happen on the come out. So it washes out.Quote: cowboyHow could it be the same house edge when the house won't collect those bets a certain percentage of the time?
To use an analogous situation, turning off place bets on the come out does not change the HE per resolved bet. It just means the place bets have slightly more rolls per resolution.
Thanks!
I make no claim to this being either good or bad. it is not outlandish or foolish, the dealers don't snicker. The dealers sometimes pay off the bet and sometimes they take the chips. Same as just about every other thing in craps.Quote: FleaStiffI have my odds always working and I have my place bets always working.
just a habit. I accept the risks.
