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pwcrabb
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July 24th, 2019 at 4:42:11 PM permalink
Breakage bets placed on boxes 6 and 8 are very common player errors. For example, $10 placed on 8 will win $11, and $25 placed on 8 will win $29. Experienced dealers handle such breakage bets without trouble. Let's talk about some truly unusual bets that can cause a dealer to wish that he had imbibed a bit less the previous night.

To start off, why would a player want to place the 9 for $36?
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
DeMango
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July 24th, 2019 at 5:13:25 PM permalink
You would want to buy the 9@ $36. Pays $54 less $1 vig.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
pwcrabb
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July 24th, 2019 at 5:41:47 PM permalink
Buying the 9 for $36 is a different bet. I need to know why someone would place the 9 for $36.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
AZDuffman
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July 24th, 2019 at 5:52:00 PM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Breakage bets placed on boxes 6 and 8 are very common player errors. For example, $10 placed on 8 will win $11, and $25 placed on 8 will win $29. Experienced dealers handle such breakage bets without trouble. Let's talk about some truly unusual bets that can cause a dealer to wish that he had imbibed a bit less the previous night.

To start off, why would a player want to place the 9 for $36?



$36

$35 plus $1 breakage

pays

$49 plus $1 breakage

pays $50?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
pwcrabb
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July 24th, 2019 at 6:34:37 PM permalink
Agreed regarding payoff as a Buy bet.

Why would someone make such a bet as a Place bet, which I have seen made and booked without dealer objection? The player pressed his winning normal $15 Place bet to $36.
Last edited by: pwcrabb on Jul 24, 2019
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
DeMango
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July 24th, 2019 at 7:10:52 PM permalink
Of course the dealer won’t object to a stupid bet. Instead of fifty for one it’s fifty straight up, not caring he will lose $1 60% of the time.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
sodawater
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July 24th, 2019 at 7:46:41 PM permalink
The other day I saw an old, chain-smoking lady betting a $3 big red bet every roll after a point. I guess it was insurance.

I told her she could get a free extra $1 when it hit by simply placing the same $3 down and saying "hop the sevens" but she refused to do it because she said she'd been playing this way for 40 years. She wouldn't change a word for the extra dollar.

I wonder how many of those free dollars she has lost in that time.
Ace2
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July 25th, 2019 at 12:48:57 AM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Buying the 9 for $36 is a different bet. I need to know why someone would place the 9 for $36.

Because they don’t know or care about breakage. Maybe the dealer already advised him before or maybe not.
It’s all about making that GTA
Joeman
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July 25th, 2019 at 5:30:33 AM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Why would someone make such a bet as a Place bet, which I have seen made and booked without dealer objection? The player pressed his winning normal $15 Place bet to $36.

It could be that he momentarily confused the Place 9 with the Place 8 correct amounts. It could be that he just doesn't know the correct amounts to bet. Maybe he saw another player press his winning 6 or 8 bet up to $36 and he thought that would be a good idea for his 9. He might know that the proper odds bet for the 9 must be an even number and incorrectly assumed the same for the Place 9. Maybe it's some personal superstition.

I've seen all kinds at the Craps table. I once played at a table in Biloxi; not sure if the guy was mentally disabled or what, but he kept grabbing handfuls of his chips, tossing them onto the table, and calling out bets that he heard others call out. It was very apparent that did not understand many of the bets he was making. At one point, someone bet a two-way yo. Upon hearing this, this guy grabs a handful of chips, tosses them on the table, and calls out "Two-way yo!" I'm not sure he knew what a "yo" was, and I'm certain he had no clue what the "two-way" part meant.

Quote: Ace2

Because they don’t know or care about breakage. Maybe the dealer already advised him before or maybe not.

This^^. In my experience, unless the table is super busy, the dealers will typically warn the player once when he tries to bet an improper amount on a given bet. If the player ignores the dealer, he won't advise them a second time.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
FleaStiff
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July 25th, 2019 at 7:24:27 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

The other day I saw an old, chain-smoking lady betting a $3 big red bet every roll after a point.
I told her she could get a free extra $1 when it hit by simply placing the same $3 down and saying "hop the sevens" but she refused to do it because she said she'd been playing this way for 40 years. She wouldn't change a word for the extra dollar.

No, no. Mon Dieu!! Its 'three-way hop', but you do not utter the word "seven" or encourage anyone else to do so.

Quote: sodawater

I wonder how many of those free dollars she has lost in that time.

Too painful a sum to contemplate.

The better casinos usually have better dealers and will automatically do things like "throw me a white" or booking a place bet as a buy bet. Lammers are easier to deal with than a customer sometimes.
Doc
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July 25th, 2019 at 7:34:04 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

No, no. Mon Dieu!! Its 'three-way hop', but you do not utter the word "seven" or encourage anyone else to do so.

I agree on not using the forbidden word. Even if you are not superstitious yourself, there is no reason to agitate others at the table. I think I have heard the wager expressed as, "Hop the reds" or perhaps "... the big reds", and I think that works for everyone.
AZDuffman
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July 25th, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I agree on not using the forbidden word. Even if you are not superstitious yourself, there is no reason to agitate others at the table. I think I have heard the wager expressed as, "Hop the reds" or perhaps "... the big reds", and I think that works for everyone.



Buddy of mine likes to order a seven and seven at the table. Might be my fault he does that.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
FleaStiff
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July 26th, 2019 at 4:32:10 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Buddy of mine likes to order a seven and seven at the table. Might be my fault he does that.

LOL.
I would align myself with Doc's crowd: No need to agitate ... . It is not as if I believed even one of the dice has ears. Its more about inviting trouble from obnoxious drunks or creating time-wasting diversions. No need to actually believe in nonsense.
AZDuffman
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July 26th, 2019 at 5:18:31 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

LOL.
I would align myself with Doc's crowd: No need to agitate ... . It is not as if I believed even one of the dice has ears. Its more about inviting trouble from obnoxious drunks or creating time-wasting diversions. No need to actually believe in nonsense.



I told my craps instructor about it, he was one of those guys had every job in the casino by his mid-30s and thus had a life sentence in the gaming industry. I tell him, he stone-faces for a second or two, then says he would throw the guy out on his head.

Guy still does it, still my fault.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Duane
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July 26th, 2019 at 7:42:49 PM permalink
two stories. I had thrown all the numbers but 10 and 11 with 5/10/5 on the small/all/tall bets when a new dealer shows up and announces the world series game score. 7 to 7 of course. This is at Caesars of all places. Despite that, I threw the 11, and then after laying the 10, threw a hard 10. Second story, I was in the early (~12 rolls or so) of a good roll. Two beginners at the table started talking and said "We should pull our bets down, as there are 6 ways to throw a 7 and less for anything else". I gave him a dirty look. Got the dice, tried to shake the bad vibes away. Threw a 7. Gave the guy another dirty look, then thanked the guy for reminding me.
7craps
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pwcrabb
July 27th, 2019 at 8:23:02 AM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

To start off, why would a player want to place the 9 for $36?

I say they do not have to play with many $1 cheques.
very common bet actually. Just my small time playing and dealing dice, I have seen that many many times.
$36 pays $50 and is left up to win again.

$35 pays $49 is also a common event (place 5 and place 9) as the player will get ready to drop $1 to the table for $50 payout. I even had players drop $5 and ask for change right there to keep their supply of $1s greater than 0.

imo, many players that bet red and green do not have that many $1s, do not like to make change just for that, and like to use those for hardways and cocktail waitress tips.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
pwcrabb
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July 27th, 2019 at 6:41:28 PM permalink
7craps provides the answer. It makes perfect sense and fits the situations that I observed.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
DeMango
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July 27th, 2019 at 7:13:48 PM permalink
Sorry the real answer is uninformed or stupid, your choice. Double down on the fact you should be paid $53.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
pwcrabb
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July 28th, 2019 at 3:16:17 PM permalink
DeMango is of course correct; the $36 wagered on Box 9 should have been a Buy bet rather than a Place bet. The fact that the player pressed from $20 to $36 and kept it a Place bet, even after the dealer's query, is what made his choice so puzzling. The player could have pressed to $40 and converted to Buy, making everything very clear.

Perhaps the player merely continued another bad habit which he had learned from his Uncle Billy. Casinos loved old Billy.

I loved the story about the old woman who stayed with Big Red all that time. I wonder who originally gave her that idea.
"I suppose I was mad. Every great genius is mad upon the subject in which he is greatest. The unsuccessful madman is disgraced and called a lunatic." Fitz-James O'Brien, The Diamond Lens (1858)
Ace2
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April 21st, 2021 at 4:38:10 PM permalink
Quote: pwcrabb

Breakage bets placed on boxes 6 and 8 are very common player errors. For example, $10 placed on 8 will win $11, and $25 placed on 8 will win $29. Experienced dealers handle such breakage bets without trouble.

Let’s say someone places the 9 for $23. Would the dealer payout winnings of $20 * 7/5 + $3 = $31 or would he calculate $23 * 7/5 = $32.30, rounded down is $32? Or maybe a stingy place would just payout $20 * 7/5 = $28?
Last edited by: Ace2 on Apr 21, 2021
It’s all about making that GTA
MrV
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April 21st, 2021 at 5:09:54 PM permalink
Why do craps tables still seem to offer the big six and big eight bet on their layout?

What kind of idiot would make an even money bet on six and / or eight when the number can be placed, and thereby give a better than even money payoff when it hits?

Must be a lot of idiots playing craps.
"What, me worry?"
DRich
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April 21st, 2021 at 7:37:20 PM permalink
Quote: MrV



Must be a lot of idiots playing craps.



I would say a lot of uninformed players not necessarily idiots.
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DeMango
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April 21st, 2021 at 9:15:08 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Let’s say someone places the 9 for $23. Would the dealer payout winnings of $20 * 7/5 + $3 = $31 or would he calculate $23 * 7/5 = $32.30, rounded down is $32? Or maybe a stingy place would just payout $20 * 7/5 = $28?

Your answer in Mississippi is $33. $23*1.5 rounded down from $34.50 to $34, then less $1 vig.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ace2
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April 22nd, 2021 at 6:59:24 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Your answer in Mississippi is $33. $23*1.5 rounded down from $34.50 to $34, then less $1 vig.

Are you sure ? $33/$23 is better than 7/5. Why would they multiply by 1.5 instead of 1.4?
It’s all about making that GTA
wilbsmitt
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April 22nd, 2021 at 8:19:39 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Are you sure ? $33/$23 is better than 7/5. Why would they multiply by 1.5 instead of 1.4?



DeMango didn't answer your question. He's describing a buy bet on the 9, not a place bet on the 9.
DeMango
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April 22nd, 2021 at 8:24:27 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Are you sure ? $33/$23 is better than 7/5. Why would they multiply by 1.5 instead of 1.4?


Because MS is an automatic buy, unlike the Neanderthals in Vegas
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
DeMango
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April 22nd, 2021 at 8:28:52 AM permalink
Quote: wilbsmitt

DeMango didn't answer your question. He's describing a buy bet on the 9, not a place bet on the 9.


Well, if you are at certain Evil Empire establishments it goes either way. $25 nine pays $35. $24 nine pays $35! Go figure. There is one casino down here where you cannot buy the 5/9 for less than $50, idiots. Anyway you can insist on lower payouts, but why would you?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ace2
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April 22nd, 2021 at 8:44:54 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Your answer in Mississippi is $33. $23*1.5 rounded down from $34.50 to $34, then less $1 vig.

That conversion to a buy bet is a better deal for the bettor only if the commission is charged on win only (very rare for 5/9 I think) or if the commission is less than 4%. Are you saying that in MS they won’t charge $2 unless the bet is $40 (5%) ?

Incidentally, this is all just out of curiosity. I would never make a place or buy bet due to the high house edge. I only bet pass/DP/come/DC with full odds
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DeMango
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April 22nd, 2021 at 3:09:06 PM permalink
I don’t know the exact breakage, but $36 might be it. At any rate MS is vig on win except for extreme buys at crapless except for Tunica extremes! Stupak rolling in his grave at the last exception!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
DeMango
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April 22nd, 2021 at 3:12:25 PM permalink
FWIW: The bought 12 in Tunica is way under 1%. A $35 twelve pays $209!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ace2
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April 22nd, 2021 at 3:20:15 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

FWIW: The bought 12 in Tunica is way under 1%. A $35 twelve pays $209!

Less than half a percent which is impressive, especially for a long shot (one in seven) bet in a sucker game

Too bad it’s in Tunica. Mississippi!
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MrV
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April 22nd, 2021 at 3:47:01 PM permalink
As an inducement to book more action, casinos might consider allowing bettors to buy the four or ten WITHOUT paying vig, thus allowing true odds, provided the bettor has other, "normal" bets on the layout of equal or greater value.
"What, me worry?"
Ace2
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April 22nd, 2021 at 4:10:56 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

As an inducement to book more action, casinos might consider allowing bettors to buy the four or ten WITHOUT paying vig, thus allowing true odds, provided the bettor has other, "normal" bets on the layout of equal or greater value.

All casinos allow this on all point numbers...it’s the free odds bet
It’s all about making that GTA
DeMango
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April 22nd, 2021 at 7:23:18 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

All casinos allow this on all point numbers...it’s the free odds bet

once upon a time in New Mexico this was done on several casinos. Santa Anna Star was one culprit, a no vig buy starting at $10
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odiousgambit
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April 23rd, 2021 at 7:55:04 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

FWIW: The bought 12 in Tunica is way under 1%. A $35 twelve pays $209!

a 'bought 12' is a bet where you are a winner if 12 comes up before 7?

never heard of it.

the well known one roll bet of giving $35 to the dealer 'for a 12' would pay $1050 , but that bet loses 35/36 times
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ace2
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April 23rd, 2021 at 8:02:13 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

a 'bought 12' is a bet where you are a winner if 12 comes up before 7?

That’s Crapless Craps, where all numbers (other than 7) are points. I’ve never played but I know how it works
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unJon
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April 23rd, 2021 at 8:02:20 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

a 'bought 12' is a bet where you are a winner if 12 comes up before 7?

never heard of it.

the well known one roll bet of giving $35 to the dealer 'for a 12' would pay $1050 , but that bet loses 35/36 times



It’s only a bet in crapsless craps.
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DJTeddyBear
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April 23rd, 2021 at 8:32:40 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

once upon a time in New Mexico this was done on several casinos. Santa Anna Star was one culprit, a no vig buy starting at $10

I’ve never been there. Hell, never been to NM.
But the Santa Anna Star is often mentioned for STILL doing that.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DeMango
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April 23rd, 2021 at 9:34:28 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I’ve never been there. Hell, never been to NM.
But the Santa Anna Star is often mentioned for STILL doing that.


Gotta wonder why only in New Mexico has there been recently price wars amongst casino craps tables.
A loooong time ago remember Fitz in Tunica rolling out the fifty cent pieces matching Grand Casino with paying $14.50 on the 5/9, $19.50 on the 4/10 for $10 automatic buy bets, $25 5/9 paid $36.50!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
DJTeddyBear
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April 23rd, 2021 at 2:16:14 PM permalink
The last time I was at the California, (3 years ago?) they had 25¢ chips so you could buy the 4/10 for $5!

And they only used them for those small bets. IE. buy for $20 or more, including odd amounts, and the vig is multiples of $1.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
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