Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
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February 8th, 2019 at 9:54:35 PM permalink
Atlantis really isn’t the best place for comps and benefits. They give none and any you get is sort of worked out after your play. Once you get on their radar they’ll give you a date range that you can go and they’ll give you $600 freeplay for the trip, at least that’s what I’ve gotten. Future trips are booked through independent hosts. It’s really just a place to try to use the casino to get a cheap vacation. Everything is expensive there starting with the $45 cab fare from the airport.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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February 9th, 2019 at 2:37:22 AM permalink
Quote: FCBLComish

If you book a room from an outside site like Expedia.com, you will not be able to get it comped. Always book directly with the hotel and then at the end of your trip, you have a chance of having all or some of the room picked up.



Correct. Booking with anyone besides the operator means that the operator has already contracted at a certain rate which is money that they can't recover.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
boymimbo
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Thanks for this post from:
odiousgambit
February 9th, 2019 at 3:03:51 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

This is a possibility, but the pass/don't pass bets both have a house edge so the house can still win "in the long run" just as it would if the two bettors did not know each other. The odds bets have no house advantage and might not be rated at all, depending on the casino.

Is there a way at that casino to "test the waters" for one period of time and then asking some questions?



I challenge that assertion. If you play doey/don't you will always lose every time a 12 is rolled and break even the rest of the time.

You'll need to play black to get that kind of comp, in which case you are going to lose $100 every time a 12 is rolled on a come out. Given about 18 come out rolls per hour you would lose in average about $50. Of course the variance on that is extremely high. Over 16 hours you would be looking at 288 come out rolls and 8 losses on the 12. There's a 10.9% probability that you could see 12 or more 12s during that time. And I'm not even factoring in the variance of the number of come outs.

I guess the question is whether that variance and the guaranteed loss is worth it for the free nights. It's not particularly good for the soul to know that you are going to lose a bunch of money and time and hope that the CZR gods find it appropriate to gift you a room. That in itself is a questionable gamble.

Bacarrat is another game where you play player/banker offsetting with alot more decisions quicker with a much lower HE than single zero BJ. And it's fairly mindless. It's probably the best way to get your comps via the offsetting route.
Last edited by: boymimbo on Feb 9, 2019
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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February 9th, 2019 at 3:08:39 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I think it would take a lot of hours to get "big comps" at the level of play mentioned if odds are not rated.

It isn't that I don't think it is possible that they will reduce the comps, but I don't see why they would do it. Boymimbo mentioned in one thread the house edge being halfway between the two individual ones for this betting pattern.

Of course, casinos pretty much do whatever they want with comp values...



And there are plenty of threads about CZR being very stingy on their awarding of TCs/comps at table games (something like 2% of theo for blackjack). CZR was known for being good at giving future offers via mailers. That gives them the control of being able to reward rooms during low season.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Topkat10
Topkat10
Joined: Jan 7, 2019
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February 9th, 2019 at 3:56:06 AM permalink
Thanks Sandy, I have been many times and fully aware of all the expenses associated with a stay there,i never got their players card over the years because I didn't play arted playing craps over the last few years at Mohegan/ Foxwoods, really enjoy playing, my income allows me now to stay at the Cove and I will be taking my two adult kids over 4th of July. The last time I was there was over Labor day with my son played craps avererage buy in was 500 a session multiple sessions maybe 5 -7 hours total for 3 days, at my request they took off roughly 250 of F and B and gave me a 50 dollar free play slot voucher, never received any offers for a return discounted room rate My big question are there any offsetting systems that would achieve a zero result involving 2 people at the same table? Someone responded with a single zero roulette system that would work but did not give specifics, Craps pass don't pass hedge the 12 on the comeout ? I could certainly just play at a higher limit by myself and hope for the best, also does making a deposit of "upfront money" get you any further consideration ? I suppose at the end of the day it all comes down to how much you lay out there, was hoping to get on their radar for discounted rates in the future thanks for your reply
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 9th, 2019 at 3:57:04 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I challenge that assertion. If you play doey/don't you will always lose every time a 12 is rolled and break even the rest of the time.

You'll need to play black to get that kind of comp, in which case you are going to lose $100 every time a 12 is rolled on a come out. Given about 18 come out rolls per hour you would lose in average about $50. Of course the variance on that is extremely high. Over 16 hours you would be looking at 288 come out rolls and 8 losses on the 12. There's a 10.9% probability that you could see 12 or more 12s during that time. And I'm not even factoring in the variance of the number of come outs.

I guess the question is whether that variance and the guaranteed loss is worth it for the free nights. It's not particularly good for the soul to know that you are going to lose a bunch of money and time and hope that the CZR gods find it appropriate to gift you a room. That in itself is a questionable gamble.

Bacarrat is another game where you play player/banker offsetting with alot more decisions quicker with a much lower HE than single zero BJ. And it's fairly mindless. It's probably the best way to get your comps via the offsetting route.



It might be worth it if done at e-craps

Cet properties that have e-craps I have seen its $200 per players point (compared to $5 at slots and $10 at Blackjack) so they must be aware of the move and that it does work at their e-craps hence the prohibitive earnings

BUT if they are counting the odds bets in thhe wager it might still be worth it especially if all they are going for are some cheap rooms. $30 doey/dont backed by full odds. But I havent tested that so im just theorizing
Topkat10
Topkat10
Joined: Jan 7, 2019
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February 9th, 2019 at 4:09:33 AM permalink
Really great info thanks, not really familiar with Baccarat and pretty sure my 24 year old son would rather be chasing down tanlines than sitting at a Baccarat table, he also likes craps and that attracts a good looking crowd, so I was hoping to enlist his assistance there, one other possibility would be to play craps for an hour at higher levels he plays the DP I play the pass just to get rated and then break off from there and reduce down, my question is what would be the best way to set that up Pass don't pass but take no odds ? I don't suppose hedging the 12 on the come out makes sense, someone mentioned a zero end result for roulette but didn't give specifics on that system, also would you know if deposing say 5,000.00 in upfront money helps getting any further consideration? Appreciate you taking the time to reply.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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February 9th, 2019 at 5:58:27 AM permalink
I've been told by a couple of hosts that establishing a line of credit does help with future offers. Whether it helps with the trip on which you establish it, I can't say. Whether front money helps, I also can't say, but it certainly couldn't hurt. I don't think 5-6k is a significant amount of front money, though. JMHO. Miminum of 10K to make a statement like you're trying to make.
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Topkat10
Topkat10
Joined: Jan 7, 2019
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February 9th, 2019 at 7:15:55 AM permalink
Thanks Beach, appreciate your reply and insight
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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February 9th, 2019 at 7:40:16 AM permalink
Topkat, you've been getting some replies that suggest doey-don't or punto-banco* hedging work well as offsetting bets. That some casinos evidently consider such hedging as cheating is taken as evidence it works by some. The reality is that hedging does not work to offset bets at all, not against the house edge and not to achieve better comping. The pit people who worry about it simply don't understand the facts. I agree *you* should worry about it if you try it, because there are pit bosses who would dock your comps if they knew you were doing it - these same ignorant pit people. 

Some comments are from those who are simply attracted to the idea of two-player hedging in and of itself. Granted, if two people are going to be playing, you no longer have the argument against hedging that criticizes betting twice as much all against the house edge. Two-player has problems of its own, though, and surely you yourself can name these possible problems. 

*I prefer using 'punto and banco' instead of 'player and banker' when writing about baccarat, as you have to otherwise be on guard against confusing player-the-person with player-the-bet ... there's a similar problem with the word 'banker'
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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