Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 3548
December 11th, 2018 at 10:29:12 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Strange things happen around slot techs. I've had three experiences that give me pause to what they can do. Logic says they should have no control on a result, but it's happened enough over the years to make me wonder.



Every slot I've seen is purposely made so there is no chance of slot tech manipulation other that paytables.

Almost every slot tech I have known would be incapable of figuring out any type of workaround. These are generally low paying jobs with very little previous education or knowledge needed to start.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 73
  • Posts: 6510
Thanks for this post from:
Zcore13
December 11th, 2018 at 10:55:13 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Every slot I've seen is purposely made so there is no chance of slot tech manipulation other that paytables.

Almost every slot tech I have known would be incapable of figuring out any type of workaround. These are generally low paying jobs with very little previous education or knowledge needed to start.


ZCore13



As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 238
  • Posts: 7287
December 11th, 2018 at 11:03:02 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Hmmm, so his claim of magnets and magic moving dice when the tech came are most likely false. More conspiracy thwarted.


ZCore13



I never said magnets nor magic

I said it appeared to like a magician would make an object move on its own. Obviously a trick caused by something other than magic

And once again I said RFID. Not magnets. That was someone else
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4525
December 11th, 2018 at 11:04:57 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

This was my experience with a "Shoot To Win" machine in Nevada. One die would lay up on an edge against the bubble. The machine would lock up until a tech came to open the cabinet, and reset it. He didn't open the bubble, but appeared to put the machine into a "reset" mode that triggered the servos to bounce the floor a few times.

My guess is that the dice are read via OCR and not RFID because reading two dice accurately via RFID would be very tricky due to the use of a shaking platform that would have to contain the sensors.

Oh hell, yeah. I'd forgotten there are two dice to read. That's definitely going to be optical. If a crappy phone can read a QR code and a cash register can read 50 crappy assorted barcodes a minute, then reading 2 to 12 pips optically would be a cinche.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4525
December 11th, 2018 at 11:11:47 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I never said magnets nor magic

I said it appeared to like a magician would make an object move on its own. Obviously a trick caused by something other than magic

And once again I said RFID. Not magnets. That was someone else



You strongly implied that a computer or mechanism in the machine could impart controlling actions on the dice. RFID COULD explain how the dice is read, but unless the dice are fitted with magnets or tiny retro rockets, you've given no hint to how motion was imparted.

A vibrating servo, or rapid puff of air or a big mama of an elecro magnet could have been controlled by that button just to get the dice out of it's inappropriate position. No cheat feature implied by that.

The ladies IPAD could maybe have been modified and used to dazzle or confuse the die reading optics, to make it read and report dice incorrectly... But I doubt it.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4525
December 11th, 2018 at 11:15:29 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.

Exactly. "If the die gets stuck, you are not to mess about with the bubble or dice. Just whack this button till the dice falls away" would be pretty much his job description. That or "turn it off and back on again"
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 175
  • Posts: 9770
December 11th, 2018 at 11:38:03 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

As a person that has designed and programmed many slot machines, my perspective is that most slot techs have no idea how things really work. I don't mean to isolate slot techs, in general most casino employees know only about one tenth of what they think they know.




I fully understand your arguments, but in the light of these events, it is hard to fully accept them.

1) Sands Casino AC- I'm playing a WOF game that when you hit the bonus, a screen is supposed to appear and you choose one of three wheels. The wheel says 1-5 spins. In this game, the screen was skipped and I only got one spin. After concluding the bonus, I read the rules and was pretty sure I was right. Another bonus came along and instead of playing it, I called a slot attendant. She read the rules and called a slot tech. We explained what happened and he worked on the machine a few minutes. Said he had to take the game offline after I did my bonus spin. I was playing 27 nickels( 3 per line) and the spin awarded 25-1000 times your line bet.
Wheel spun and ended on the 1,000 coin slot. The only time it ever happened.
2) At a bar in Vegas. Guy comes in and tells me I have to move to the other side of the bar. He needs change several machines right in a row. We talk a bit and he tells me he left me something on the machine. I see he left ten credits for me. First spin I get a dealt full house. Coincidence? Perhaps? but it does make me go hmmmm.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 238
  • Posts: 7287
December 11th, 2018 at 12:53:38 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

You strongly implied that a computer or mechanism in the machine could impart controlling actions on the dice. RFID COULD explain how the dice is read, but unless the dice are fitted with magnets or tiny retro rockets, you've given no hint to how motion was imparted.

A vibrating servo, or rapid puff of air or a big mama of an elecro magnet could have been controlled by that button just to get the dice out of it's inappropriate position. No cheat feature implied by that.

The ladies IPAD could maybe have been modified and used to dazzle or confuse the die reading optics, to make it read and report dice incorrectly... But I doubt it.



I still imply that

I just dont think its magnets

Im no specialist in this area so not sure what it could be. However I dabbled in both magic tricks and film-making (an art of illusion) and you will be surprised what the least apparent answer usually is
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 238
  • Posts: 7287
December 11th, 2018 at 12:57:22 PM permalink
UPDATE/CORRECTION

After several PMs with Axel it may be that the NY AP move is possible due to class III status

We both agree its difficult to determine if thats the case and based on his longer tenure and experience in this matter I demure to his expertise

He also approved me discussing our PMs here

If I got anything wrong in that statement Axel let me know (I know you will)
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Thanks for this post from:
OnceDear
December 11th, 2018 at 2:46:32 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Oh hell, yeah. I'd forgotten there are two dice to read. That's definitely going to be optical. If a crappy phone can read a QR code and a cash register can read 50 crappy assorted barcodes a minute, then reading 2 to 12 pips optically would be a cinche.



Aruze has a patent on a system that places two RFID loop antennas in the shaker table to detect the faces that are contacting the surface:





I wonder how these are holding up? With parts shaking all the time, the service intervals must be fairly frequent.

This system also sheds light on the report of the lady with the iPad getting perp walked out. RFID readers/transmitters are used by car thieves to enter and start keyless automobiles. While I don't know of any specific weakness, this system could be vulnerable to spoofing as well.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci

  • Jump to: