WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
  • Threads: 105
  • Posts: 1636
December 16th, 2017 at 11:52:24 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

You contradict yourself. Because it has been proven by experts that these games are not random, it is easy to win. One has to be crazy to think they could beat a dice game that does not have predetermined outcomes



You are saying that experts have proven that the rolls in the electronic dice, bubble craps, etc are predetermined? Fixed, so to speak? I would love to see the proof that you speak of. I agree that they are not random... You are proving my point... so what's your point? I havent spent the time to exploit it and find the way to capitalize on it....nor do I want to, as I mentioned. No contradiction. If someone spends the time and effort to beat the game, then that is great. I dont have that info other than my theory which I explained earlier... and I dont have the time to try and beat it.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 3228
December 16th, 2017 at 11:54:58 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

You contradict yourself. Because it has been proven by experts that these games are not random, it is easy to win. One has to be crazy to think they could beat a dice game that does not have predetermined outcomes


I think what he is (incorrectly) saying is that the machine adjusts the odds of the dice on the fly, depending on what bets are placed, to maximize the houseís EV.

While that may be possible, Iím certain it is not happening.
CAD2
CAD2
Joined: Dec 18, 2017
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 25
December 19th, 2017 at 4:33:28 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

You contradict yourself. Because it has been proven by experts that these games are not random, it is easy to win. One has to be crazy to think they could beat a dice game that does not have predetermined outcomes



The rolls can be non-random due to player interaction. Most E-Craps players don't look at the dice and just press the button at the first opportunity. Heck, a lot of the players are ploppies who are drunk and trying to have fun.

Then you have players timing the dice. One guy on another website claims he can avoid boxcars so they come up at a rate that is greater than 1 in 36 rolls. He's your typical dewey don't player who takes odds. He claims to lose money on E-Craps but make money from the slot club benefits.

He is the same guy posting photos of rolling a bunch of 6's, 7's & 8's. Something like 23 rolls out of 30.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
December 19th, 2017 at 7:05:11 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

PS real table craps can be beaten. Ask mustangsally

Don't get me wrong. I love MustangSally but I speak English and she speaks Math.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
December 19th, 2017 at 7:29:09 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Casinos make money on craps that get fewer hands/hour, using up 4 skilled staff to do it (box, stick, 2 dealers). No way that machine costs more per hour to rent than it costs to run a live table day in and day out, and the machine runs 24/7.



Actually I think a Dice Crew is FIVE skilled staff. The Box is pretty much there for his entire shift. The stickman and two base dealers rotate but there is usually a dealer on a twenty minute break. Often the stickman gets a break so he can recover from the ordeal of trying to get people to make bad bets. (lol).

Actually casinos love machines., They don't take vacations, demand health benefits or ever try to unionize. And casinos don't have to watch machines quite as closely as they have to watch sticky fingered humans.

But the money appears to be in "hands per hour". Casinos like to get more hands per hour from dealers but don't like making any Carpal Tunnel Syndrome payouts. So the cheapest and most reliable option is often to invest in machines and a slot technician to keep them running.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 125
  • Posts: 13201
March 17th, 2021 at 6:08:17 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

My theory is that the machines have algorithms which detect which bets are placed placed more heavily and based upon what numbers are needed for the house win, that is the skewed outcome. Therefore, It is not just favored for a 7 out every time if there are more wagers on the dont... it could be opposite. Then the point is typically made depending on the players at the machine at any given time. Im not one to go around the table and see who is betting heavy on dont or come in order to determine where I want to place my bet.

If I were the game maker, this is absolutely how I would code. Its all legal and within their right to adjust however they like... just like slots payout percentage.

Again, Im not an insider. I dont know anyone who is part of the development team of the machines.... This is my opinion and based upon what I have seen , this is what I believe. Regardless, I stay away from the electronic games. Not a winning place for me.



I don't know how that would be legal in Nevada. It's the visual representation of dice, and therefore, must correspond to the probabilities of dice. At least, as I understand it, but I might be wrong.

If you were right, there'd still be no need to circle anything yourself. Just have a confederate do it and tell you what you should be betting. That would be perfectly legal, in this case, since you're just basing your bet on what the other players are doing.
Vultures can't be choosers.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 75
  • Posts: 7198
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
March 17th, 2021 at 7:32:24 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don't know how that would be legal in Nevada. It's the visual representation of dice, and therefore, must correspond to the probabilities of dice. At least, as I understand it, but I might be wrong.



You are correct that it would not be allowed in Nevada. Also, any manufacturer that did that would probably not be allowed to sell any machines in Nevada.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
mwalz9
mwalz9
Joined: Feb 7, 2012
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 233
April 17th, 2021 at 9:29:52 AM permalink
I have spent a lot of time playing "Shoot to Win" craps and while I have no scientific or mathematical proof to say these machines are rigged, I can attest I have made tons of money playing the Don't when the game is full of other players, and I have lost money playing the don't alone.

I got on a full game one night with $20. Played strictly don't with odds and turned it into over $500, all while the other players lost their asses playing pass lines and place bets.

Like I said, there is no proof of this, but I do know if I see a game with every seat but 1 taken, Im stopping to play the don't every single time!

Maybe random luck. Maybe just coincidence. I'm gonna ride it till it doesn't work though!
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 1960
April 17th, 2021 at 11:03:09 AM permalink
Those ploppies can't hit the roll dice button at the right time. They need some rhythm.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 149
  • Posts: 19139
April 17th, 2021 at 1:57:26 PM permalink
Quote: mwalz9

I have spent a lot of time playing "Shoot to Win" craps and while I have no scientific or mathematical proof to say these machines are rigged, I can attest I have made tons of money playing the Don't when the game is full of other players, and I have lost money playing the don't alone.

I got on a full game one night with $20. Played strictly don't with odds and turned it into over $500, all while the other players lost their asses playing pass lines and place bets.

Like I said, there is no proof of this, but I do know if I see a game with every seat but 1 taken, Im stopping to play the don't every single time!

Maybe random luck. Maybe just coincidence. I'm gonna ride it till it doesn't work though!

Now this is the type of post I can get behind, it sounds logical and level-headed.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

  • Jump to: