Why low odds?

I'm not really a beginner, I wouldn't call myself a sophisticated student of the game of craps either, but one thing confuses me about how people play. Why, when most people place a bet do they put 1X or 2X odds on it when the table max is 5X or 10X, which lowers the house advantage considerably? It seems like most come up to the table with a big enough bankroll that high odds won't bankrupt them, so what's the problem? Is there something that I'm missing here?

Quote: Cynic

It seems like most come up to the table with a big enough bankroll that high odds won't bankrupt them, so what's the problem?

That assumption is incorrect. Or it’s incorrect in the eyes of the players you’re watching.

Also note that most players, regardless of bankroll size, will make many of the middle on the table bets.

Combine those two facts and you’ve got people that are more concerned with maximum fun than shaving a little off the edge.

I think the people don't care, the people just want action and and a seat at the table, and don't want a lot of exposure. Nothing wrong with having a budget, after all, sometimes the smartest way isn't the wisest way.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I think the people don't care, the people just want action and and a seat at the table, and don't want a lot of exposure.

Them math types always say that the best strategy is to put your entire bankroll on the DontPass and then walk away from the table after that roll.

Trouble is few people really want such an optimum play, particularly if that first roll loses all their money and they won't even get free drinks until their return flight takes off.

Quote: FleaStiff

Them math types always say that the best strategy is to put your entire bankroll on the DontPass and then walk away from the table after that roll.

Trouble is few people really want such an optimum play, particularly if that first roll loses all their money and they won't even get free drinks until their return flight takes off.

If going to make a -EV bet, it's not going to be on don't pass. Why make everyone hate you? If I give up a few hundredths of a percentage I can play pass and I just might get a hug from the chesty blonde to my left. Maybe more... What's that worth?

Quote: Cynic

I'm not really a beginner, I wouldn't call myself a sophisticated student of the game of craps either, but one thing confuses me about how people play. Why, when most people place a bet do they put 1X or 2X odds on it when the table max is 5X or 10X, which lowers the house advantage considerably? It seems like most come up to the table with a big enough bankroll that high odds won't bankrupt them, so what's the problem? Is there something that I'm missing here?

Somebody that puts full odds behind the line bet is not necessarily smarter than someone who doesn't.

Let's compare him to the guy who is making the min bet plus 2x free odds, and let's say our full odds bettor also makes the minimum bet on the line though adds 10x in free odds. The expected value of each arrangement is the same; what has changed is the amount of variance, and that comes down to personal taste. Perhaps it is more clearly seen with 20x or higher free odds where the variance is hair-raising for just about anybody. One guy is not smarter than the other here, they just have different tastes.

Now let's compare our full odds bettor to a different guy. This different guy is playing at a $10 minimum bet table but he puts $50 on the line with $60 in free odds. Our full odds bettor puts $10 with $100 in free odds. Now the EV of the two arrangements is not the same, which is also reflected in the overall house edge calculation. Our free odds bettor is in fact betting smarter assuming that a $110 bet is at a good comfort level for both.

Which brings up the comment "lowering the house edge" you made. It is sometimes said "the free odds do not help you to win more money". The application for that is the bettor who is comfortable with the minimum bet, and is not comfortable making a larger bet. He often gets talked into putting money behind the line anyway, I notice. Now that is a case where I think you can say it doesn't make sense and the saying in quotes applies.

For it all to make sense, it is a little more complicated, what really needs to take place is "keeping the amount of your total action the same while using the free odds". If though using the free odds is increasing your total action over what you really wanted to bet, then you are really just getting into smoke and mirrors about your betting habits and your own illusions.

All I can say to the OP is, it's what you want to risk on the next roll of the dice. Doesn't matter how many or any full odds you want to bet. It all comes down to whether or not the 7 will show before your number(s). It all depends on your bankroll, your desire for action, and luck.

Quote: odiousgambit

For it all to make sense, it is a little more complicated, what really needs to take place is "keeping the amount of your total action the same while using the free odds". If though using the free odds is increasing your total action over what you really wanted to bet, then you are really just getting into smoke and mirrors about your betting habits and your own illusions.

OK, now I see what you mean, just had to let it percolate in my head a couple of days. Obviously how much you have bet on a number has no influence on what number is rolled next, it just determines the volatility in your bankroll - if you go up twice as fast, you also go down twice as fast.

Thanks everyone for your replies, they all help to clear the fog.

Quote: Cynic

- if you go up twice as fast, you also go down twice as fast.

Odds do absolutely nothing to improve your chances of winning. No matter whether you bet zero odds or 100X odds, you are always expected to lose exactly the same amount over the same rolls. The HE decreases with each odds multiple, but your total amount bet increases at the same time. Multiplying the total amount bet by the HE reveals you are still expected to lose exactly the same amount as you would have using zero odds. One positive in using odds is that they increase the size of your average bet without increasing the amount your are expected to lose. You could also lose more with odds as opposed to using zero odds. You could possibly win after a number of rolls and zero odds, but if you repeated those exact rolls with 1X odds or higher, you could lose. Not a bad bet, but overrated. Just as you can win much more with odds, you could also lose much more and bust out. As someone here said, “ On good days, you win more. On bad days you lose more".

Quote: Tanko

Odds do absolutely nothing to improve your chances of winning. No matter whether you bet zero odds or 100X odds, you are always expected to lose exactly the same amount over the same rolls. The HE decreases with each odds multiple, but your total amount bet increases at the same time. Multiplying the total amount bet by the HE reveals you are still expected to lose exactly the same amount as you would have using zero odds. One positive in using odds is that they increase the size of your average bet without increasing the amount your are expected to lose. You could also lose more with odds as opposed to using zero odds. You could possibly win after a number of rolls and zero odds, but if you repeated those exact rolls with 1X odds or higher, you could lose. Not a bad bet, but overrated. Just as you can win much more with odds, you could also lose much more and bust out. As someone here said, “ On good days, you win more. On bad days you lose more".

Another closely held secret is that big winners in craps win by having place bets on the numbers pressed up and the shooter has a series of long "hot" rolls. Knowing when that is coming is impossible of course, but not being afraid of jumping on a "hot" roll is the key to winning at craps(and roulette). I know well my friend, been there, been more afraid(aka chicken shit) than a jumper, but have had some good wins when I did jump at the right time. ps: walk away to the cage when said roll is over.....

Quote: Tanko

You could possibly win after a number of rolls and zero odds, but if you repeated those exact rolls with 1X odds or higher, you could lose. Not a bad bet, but overrated.

Which bet is less "overrated"?