Maximizing odds in pass line bets vs new come bets/odds

I play at a casino that allows 100X odds. Is it better to try to maximize the pass line odds or make new come bets on every roll and back them up with odds?

It depends on what you consider "better," minimizing expected loss or lessening the volitility to your bankroll.

Do not exceed a bet size that you are not comfortable with just in order to max the odds. Take the size bet you like and maximize the odds portion. Two different concepts, one makes sense, the other can become crazy.

Quote: kg1980

I play at a casino that allows 100X odds. Is it better to try to maximize the pass line odds or make new come bets on every roll and back them up with odds?

math says betting max odds before adding a come bet is better.
for me, I like action. I plan my bankroll for 6 come bets with whatever odds my bankroll dictates.

I start with 3 point Betty. then add come bets till it's continuous come if I'm hitting.
then increase odds if not maxxed. if maxxed, then increase flat bet + odds.

basically, whichever you're having the most fun with.

btw- where/which casino is this?

Quote: 100xOdds

math says betting max odds before adding a come bet is better.
for me, I like action. I plan my bankroll for 6 come bets with whatever odds my bankroll dictates.

I start with 3 point Betty. then add come bets till it's continuous come if I'm hitting.
then increase odds if not maxxed. if maxxed, then increase flat bet + odds.

basically, whichever you're having the most fun with.

btw- where/which casino is this?

This is at Rivers Casino outside Chicago by Ohare airport. The minimum bets are a bit high $15-$25. So maximizing the odds is not really an option for my bankroll. So it sounds like backing up the Pass line with as much odds as you can afford is the best strategy, but placing come bets might be more fun.

Quote: kg1980

This is at Rivers Casino outside Chicago by Ohare airport. The minimum bets are a bit high $15-$25. So maximizing the odds is not really an option for my bankroll. So it sounds like backing up the Pass line with as much odds as you can afford is the best strategy, but placing come bets might be more fun.

"Technically" since the Don't Pass has a smaller house edge (1.36% vs Pass 1.41%) it's "best" to do the Don't Pass with as much odds as you're comfortable with... =). You don't always have to bet on "red" on roulette, and you don't always have to play the Pass Line in craps. But in reality whichever side you want to play it's practically the same. I personally like to play a line bet + 2 more (either Come or DC) with odds, but craps is a game you can play 100 different negative ways =P.

Playing for a long period of time is certainly a negative EV in craps an all other table games except card counting in bj. Playing the pass line is not a good bet in my opinion.... stacking large odds behind is the casino's way to lure you into a losing bet. You will have to make a number twice before a 7, which probabilities are not in your favor. If you want to put large bets on a roll of the dice you can just put that same amount on a place bet and take it down any time you like. That is your edge. sure you will get paid a tad bit less, but at least you have the control as to when you want to stop working. 6/5 rather than 7/6 on the 6 n 8 is hardly a difference maker... especially when it is more improbable of an outcome... same with the 4,5,9, n 10.

If everyone would just play the numbers and walk away after they hit 2 boxes.... the casinos would not be as profitable.. but 99% of gamblers at the casinos have unrealistic expectations and can't / don't leave once they have a small profit. Everyone wants that 5000% return.... not happening consistently, frequently, nor realistically . Hit n run is the way to walk away a winner.

I agree with the walking way part. Place bets however have much worse odds than an odds bet even if it is a 3-5X odds. Maybe I am wrong. It does sound more fun than waiting for the point number to hit

When played without Odds, both Pass and Come suffer a disadvantage of 1.414141... percent. Because they are close approximations of a coin toss, the variance on both Pass and Come is similarly low. Therefore, if you played "naked" with only relatively small bets on Pass and Come, every single roll, then you could play for a very long time and go approximately nowhere.

In contrast, Odds bets have a higher variance. Increasing the Odds portion of your total game will increase the total variance as well. At very high Odds multiples, the variance will be very high as well, despite the negligible house advantage of the combined bets.

There are very good theoretical reasons for playing simply Single Odds. You take a significant bite out of the overall casino advantage, dropping it from 1.41 percent to 0.86 percent. Your variance increases but not as drastically as at higher Odds multiples. Most importantly, at Single Odds your expected revenue profile for each of the possible numbers will closely reflect the probability distribution of those numbers. In short, the expected relative revenue contribution from the Naturals will be neither understated nor overstated.

At Single Odds, your expected exposure per Flat bet increases from one unit to 1.67 units, so keep your unit size small relative to your table stake. As a rule of thumb, you will be safe from variance risk if your Flat bets are one percent of your table stake. At three percent, you are pushing the envelope. At five percent, you had better be lucky quickly.

That's great advice. I'll just add that if you go to the Horseshoe in Hammond they have 100x odds, but you can usually find a $10 table, and even $5 tables.

Quote: 100xOdds

I start with 3 point Betty.

Waitaminit, who's Betty? I thought three points was a Molly.

Well, as usual some good advice and some nonsense both in a question for the forum about Craps. The truth-seeker just has to have some ability to discern.

One insight is if the advice is similar to what the player hears and learns from other players, is it similar to how they play? ..... and dealers too, does it sound similar to their advice? Then our truth-seeker can be pretty sure he's being fed complete baloney.

Quote: Calder

Waitaminit, who's Betty? I thought three points was a Molly.

why is it called Molly?

Why Betty?

That's just how I've heard it. Regional thing? Ex-wife thing? Who knows.

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding why you're asking this question.

Odds doesn't increase your edge to the point when you're +EV

Unless your casino gives you ratings that includes the odds?

Quote: Neutrino

Unless your casino gives you ratings that includes the odds?

e-Craps counts odds towards points.
but the casino usually ups the coin-in requirement for that machine. :(

ie: slots $1 coin-in = 1 point
vp $2 coin-in = 1 point
e-Games $4 coin-in = 1 point

100x odds are usually a gimmick.
Few players have the courage and the bankroll.

If the bet wins, that odds bet was great but if it loses your bankroll dwindles fast
But an odds bet is itself always a fair bet... the only one the casino ever offers, so why put money down at 1.414 edge when you can put it down at ZERO edge.

Quote: FleaStiff

100x odds are usually a gimmick.
Few players have the courage and the bankroll.

If the bet wins, that odds bet was great but if it loses your bankroll dwindles fast
But an odds bet is itself always a fair bet... the only one the casino ever offers, so why put money down at 1.414 edge when you can put it down at ZERO edge.

Why put down money at zero edge though? Even if it's 0.1% edge I'd love to put down money and risk big but for zero edge... just why

Quote: Neutrino

Why put down money at zero edge though? Even if it's 0.1% edge I'd love to put down money and risk big but for zero edge... just why

For advantage play, Craps can't really be your game, can it? So you are asking why everybody isn't an AP.

Quote: Neutrino

Why put down money at zero edge though? Even if it's 0.1% edge I'd love to put down money and risk big but for zero edge... just why

He is referring to the zero edge on the odds bet, aka, the odds bets pays true odds.

It is far better to bet $1 pass with $100 odds then $101 pass with no odds.

EV loss with the $1 pass is $0.014
EV loss with to $101 pass is $1.43

Big wins comes with the variance of the odds bet.

Pass line with no odds is likely one of the most boring bets on the table. Gotta put down dem odds.