Do casinos round up or down on odds bets

Hi all wanted to know if i were to bet $5 on dont pass and the point is a 4 and back it up with 99× odds and the shooter sevens out would i be paid $497 or $498?if its $498 then this would be +ev right?

Quote: nj2741

Hi all wanted to know if i were to bet $5 on dont pass and the point is a 4 and back it up with 99× odds and the shooter sevens out would i be paid $497 or $498?if its $498 then this would be +ev right?

Don't Odds usually pertain to betting double the amount to be won against the Point. In the event that the Point is a Four and you wanted to bet 99x Odds, the bet would be $990 to win $495. Beyond that, you'd win $5 on the Line bet itself, if successful.

Maybe you are trying to ask something else? 99x Odds would just mean 99x the PL bet on the Pass side, which would be 5*99 = $495 Don't Odds Laying the Four pay 1:2, so you bet $990 to win $495.

Thats right. so suppose you make a 99x dont come bet on $5 and the point is a 9 would you make 493 or 494 if the shooter sevens out

Quote: nj2741

Thats right. so suppose you make a 99x dont come bet on $5 and the point is a 9 would you make 493 or 494 if the shooter sevens out

That's what I'm trying to tell you, the Don't Odds are based on double the 99x Odds that you would be betting on the Pass Line.

Pass Line Bet: $5 99x Odds: $495 To Win: $990

Don't Pass Bet: $5, 99x Odds: $990 To Win: $495

There is no $493 or $494, you would bet $990 to win $495.

Here's a different example that I saw happen once...

A place bet of $5 made on a 6 or 8. (which normally pays 7-6). The player was paid $5 because they don't pay "cents" on a bet. So based on this limited experience that I've seen once, I would say they round down.

If i were to bet big,say $730(horseshoe council bluffs)on dont pass if the point is a 5 or a 9 and shooter sevens out it comes out to 486.66.i would insist they round up or i would quit and take my action across the street.if they call my bluff i would be forced to keep playing there because i am a degenerate gambler.If they fold all of a sudden craps will be slightly +ev and i could play all day!

Usually, they'll tell you to fix the bet so there is no rounding. If the law in that jurisdiction says they round up, then they're even more careful about incorrect bets.

Bottom line, even if they rounded up, are you really looking at that lousy buck as an AP opportunity???

And how long do you think you'd get away with it?

I dont care about being AP.i just wanted to play craps for several hours a night and not lose money and drink and eat for free.Being a diamond member i already have 2 out of 3,just looking for the last one.anyone know the rounding up or rounding down law in iowa?

Just collect all the empty beer and soda bottles and drive them to the nearest state that charges a deposit on it. You'll make your dollar without putting $990 at risk.

Thanks for the advice,I would but im not an n-word.

Quote: nj2741

Thanks for the advice,I would but im not an n-word.

No you're not, but you are a racist! Wow your ignorance astounds me.

Edit: Btw before you say I'm angry cause I'm black, I am a white man.

Quote: nj2741

If i were to bet big,say $730(horseshoe council bluffs)on dont pass if the point is a 5 or a 9 and shooter sevens out it comes out to 486.66.i would insist they round up or i would quit and take my action across the street.if they call my bluff i would be forced to keep playing there because i am a degenerate gambler.If they fold all of a sudden craps will be slightly +ev and i could play all day!

Okay, so you're saying that you will either win $487 or lose $730.

(487 * 6/10) - (730 * 4/10) = $0.20

Okay, so you have an Expected profit of $0.20, your Pass Line bet is $5, so your expected loss per bet made is (5 * .0136) = .068 or 6.8 cents.

I would like to think that we have already established that you will not get away with a Four/Ten just because their simple answer to that is make sure that you are Laying an even amount on Odds and you can't go wrong, you win half. That will always be an even dollar amount.

I don't know what you want to do about the Six & Eight, so feel free to tell me and I will redo this. I am going to assume you want to look consistent, so I'm going to have you Laying $730 against the Four/Ten and maybe $700 against Six/Eight? $728? I'm going to go with $700.

Now, let's take a look at your average bet on any given original Don't Pass + Odds.

Roll 2: Win $5, Total Bet: $5 (1/36)
Roll 3: Win $5, Total Bet: $5 (2/36)
Roll 4/10: Lay Odds: $0.00 Expectation: Total Bet: $735 (6/36)
Roll 5/9: Lay Odds: $0.20 +EV: Total Bet: $735 (8/36)
Roll 6/8: Lay Odds: $0.00 Expectation: Total Bet: $705 (10/36)
Roll 11: Lose $5, Total Bet $5 (2/36)
Roll 12: Push, Total Bet $5 (1/36)
Roll 7: Lose, Total Bet $5 (6/36)

Okay, so let's compile these:

(5 * 12/36) + (735 * 14/36) + (705 * 10/36) = $483.33, Average Total Bet

Okay, so for every 36 Don't Pass bets you expect to lose 5 * .0136 = $0.068 per bet made, or $2.448 per thirty-six bets.

You will Lay $730 on Odds to win $487 on 8/36 of all Don't Pass bets. You will win on 6/10 of those, so:

(487 * 6/10) - (730 * 4/10) = $0.20

Which is your positive expectation on those Odds for every 8/36 Don't Pass Odds bets. That means that you expect to win $1.60 on those odds bets because you get to make them after 8/36 Come Out rolls.

$2.448 - $1.60 = $0.848

Therefore, you still expect to lose 0.848 for every thirty-six times you do Don't Pass + Odds, which reduces your expected loss on each to .848/36 = .02355556 per Don't Pass bet made.

If you look at the House Edge as combining your Odds bets and your Don't Pass bet, which I would for these purposes, your average bet is going to be $483.33 with an expected loss of .02355556:

.02355556/483.33 = .00004874 or 0.004874% House Edge

But, you're still not positive on it.

Racist?n-word means nincompoop where i come from sir.Im 1/27 colored,i cant even eat watermelon without being mocked and ridiculed.i bid you a good day sir!by the way amarillo slim was a pederast,so if i were you i would take down that sheep catch phrase you have there

Quote: nj2741

Thanks for the advice,I would but im not an n-word.

I'm going to call that Rule 12 for Trolling as being overly divisive:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post37215

I'll cut you a little slack since you're new, but we're not going to tolerate that sort of thing here.

Okay what if the dealer doesnt pick up two of my $5 dont come bets an hour when an 11 comes?which seems to be the average in iowa,these dealers are terribad when it comes to collecting DC bets.Now im definately +EV

Trolling?what are we going fishing tss tss.homerun chippa!!

Quote: nj2741

Okay what if the dealer doesnt pick up two of my $5 dont come bets an hour when an 11 comes?which seems to be the average in iowa,these dealers are terribad when it comes to collecting DC bets.Now im definately +EV

You would be doing well if the crew missed one such bet per hour.

Iowa is much different than vegas. they often forget to pick up DC bets,especially when theres a full table and an 11 hits.

Quote: nj2741

Iowa is much different than vegas. they often forget to pick up DC bets,especially when theres a full table and an 11 hits.

You make the dealer error sound like it's nearly as common as rolling a 12 in the come-out, an event that merely causes a push instead of a win for darksiders. And the change for rolling a 12 at that time is the only thing that keeps that bettor from a 1.41% advantage. A little easier to roll an 11 than a 12, but surely they catch it sometimes too.

It's the kind of error I'd point out if I was the only darksider at the table, which is common. If there are other darksiders I'd feel obligated to keep my mouth shut

Quote: nj2741

Racist?n-word means nincompoop where i come from sir.Im 1/27 colored,i cant even eat watermelon without being mocked and ridiculed.i bid you a good day sir!by the way amarillo slim was a pederast,so if i were you i would take down that sheep catch phrase you have there

If it meant that you would just type that as there is no reason to not type it. You made an offensive racist comment, just own up to it.

Hey folks, just be glad you can do all this math.

I'm so slow at math I just have to accept what the dealer shoves my way. Else, I'm five rolls back mentally.

Yea i was with this that thread until the racist comment out of left field. That really offended me too

Im white but my children and family are mixed heritage.

I think OP is a T word as in Troll LOL

Quote: darkoz

Yea i was with this that thread until the racist comment out of left field. That really offended me too

Im white but my children and family are mixed heritage.

I am white and my entire family on both sides are white, I was completely offended. It doesn't matter what colour you are, everyone should treat everyone with respect. Nobody is better than anyone else! Period!

Btw Darkoz I'm not objecting to anything you said lol just adding to it. I agree with what you posted. 😊

They round down. So it would be -EV.

"Don't be offended by words that weren't meant to offend you." -probably some smart or famous person

I've never seen a casino round down. Not sure they can legally do that.
By the way, I wasn't offended, just surprised by the ignorance the OP displayed.

Quote: billryan

By the way, I wasn't offended, just surprised by the ignorance the OP displayed.

If he's from Iowa, that's all you need to know!

Don't know if the artificial turf thing is true, but: Why did the Hawkeyes install artificial turf? So the cheerleaders can't graze!

Quote: billryan

I've never seen a casino round down. Not sure they can legally do that.

Just curious, but have you ever seen someone place the 6 or 8 for $5? Theoretically, if it hits it should pay $5.833333... to $5. I think they always pay just $5, meaning that they round it down from a 7:6 payout to even money, because they don't have chips to pay out the fraction.

If you had a don't come $5 wager that moved to the 9, you might typically add an odds bet in some multiple of $3 (to get paid $2 for each multiple of $3). If instead you made the odds bet $10 and the 9 failed to hit, then I think you would win $5 for the don't come bet and just $6 (instead of $6.66666...) for the odds bet.

Quote: RS

They round down. So it would be -EV.

"Don't be offended by words that weren't meant to offend you." -probably some smart or famous person

Translation:
Turn a blind eye to other peoples racism long as its only affecting other people

Probably quoted from some famous person working in the Catholic church during the holocaust

Quote: nj2741

Iowa is much different than vegas. they often forget to pick up DC bets,especially when theres a full table and an 11 hits.

LOL. At the Horseshoe? Suuuuure they do.

I totally agree, you can't just turn away because it wasn't directed at you.

Reminds me of an old quote.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

-- Martin Niemoller

I've never played craps in a casino, but on blackjack tables anytime there was a weird payout, say a Blackjack on a $2.50 bet, it's always paid at $4, not $3.50. A $4.50 bet is paid at $7,not $6.50 unless the table has some quarters.
Short changing a player at a table is no different than short paying him at the cashier.
Not paying theoretical odds is how the casino stays in business. That's different than rounding down a winners payout.

First they introduced 6-5 blackjack but I did not speak out
Because I didn't play blackjack.

Then they introduced resort fees, but I didn't speak out
Because I was a local

Then they instituted paid parking, and I didn't speak out
Because I was both Platinum and local.

Now they have installed drink meters on their bars- and there is no one left to complain.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I am white and my entire family on both sides are white, I was completely offended. It doesn't matter what colour you are, everyone should treat everyone with respect. Nobody is better than anyone else! Period!

Btw Darkoz I'm not objecting to anything you said lol just adding to it. I agree with what you posted. 😊

Your comments and support on this are well appreciated

I am of hispanic descent,so according to the snowflakes i cant be racist because we have no power base in this country.But either way i apologize to all offended parties for saying the n-word(nincompoop)

Thanks for your apology. I hope it will be accepted by all offended parties, and we can move on, with no similar comments from you. Thanks.

Quote: billryan

I've never played craps in a casino, but on blackjack tables anytime there was a weird payout, say a Blackjack on a $2.50 bet, it's always paid at $4, not $3.50. A $4.50 bet is paid at $7,not $6.50 unless the table has some quarters.
Short changing a player at a table is no different than short paying him at the cashier.
Not paying theoretical odds is how the casino stays in business. That's different than rounding down a winners payout.

I can't say I remember this happening at the BJ table, but at the craps table, I have to agree with Doc. I have never seen the dealers round up a bet where they don't have the denominations to pay the exact amount. (Some places like Jokers Wild use 25c chips so you can get paid the full $3.50 on your $3 place 6 bet!)

Most commonly, a newer player, or one not paying much attention, will attempt to place a $5 place bet on the 6 or 8. The dealer will usually ask the player for another dollar. The same with pass line odds on the 6/8 "multiple of $5," or the 5/9 "even up your odds." If the player ignores the dealer's advice and his bet wins, he will get shorted the fractional amount of the payout. At least that's what I've always seen.

I do not recall seeing any "improper" darkside odds bets (though I'm sure it happens). In my experience, most darksiders either 1) know the proper odds amounts, 2) ask the dealer what amounts he can bet, and follow that advice, or 3) don't take odds.

As to the OP, if you had a $5 DP bet, and the come out was a 4, and you backed it with $995 odds, my guess is that you would get $497 when the seven hits (plus the $5 win on the DP). In addition, when you heel that 12+ chip barber pole, I bet it gets some extra scrutiny from the base dealer and/or the box.

Quote: Joeman

As to the OP, if you had a $5 DP bet, and the come out was a 4, and you backed it with $995 odds, my guess is that you would get $497 when the seven hits (plus the $5 win on the DP). In addition, when you heel that 12+ chip barber pole, I bet it gets some extra scrutiny from the base dealer and/or the box.

The hypothetical that we ended up doing a little math on was some sort of funky Lay Odds on the 5/9. I told him my opinion is that he wouldn't get away with it on the 4/10 and he wouldn't really have an argument for the crew because it pays 1:2, so any even number will do.

Have often seen the wrong amount bet for both the 6/8 place and odds on the 5/9. 98% of the time the dealers will explain to the player what the right bet is and that they will be paid less than optimum if the number hits. About 5% of those 98%, the player will still insist on betting the wrong amount. That is the statistic which surprises me.

Usually this happens at a $5 table which I prefer because it's more in keeping with what I want to pay for entertainment, but this is also where you'll find more newbies or others that "like" certain numbers but can't do math.