Switching Dice

Quote: link

dice-switching is still commonly used

Does this guy know what he is talking about?

I have to believe dice-switching is not "common" anymore, although the procedures to prevent it clearly are in place everywhere. Seems to me the entire crew would have to be in on it.

Or perhaps somebody can explain what I am missing.

PS: haven't watched the video yet video is "meh" , obviously just a small segment

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/basic-casino-cheating-scams-hardest-catch-gaming-experts-say

Procedures to prevent it (dice switching) are in place anywhere I've seen craps (AFAIK). That isn't to say it's super effective. You throw one die off the table, have a confederate pick it up and hand in a different die. Easy. I can't imagine getting a die with print and the # and all that stuff would be difficult either. And of course, the pit boss who checks the die that was thrown off the table....what's he gonna do? He's gonna spin it a time or two between his thumb & index finger, see if the number is the same (oftentimes they don't even know what the number should be)....and really, they aren't expecting to get a fake die turned in...as they've probably checked a die thousands of times and never once did anything other than put it back into play. I've never seen a die removed from a table because there was anything wrong with it.

And countless other ways to get a die on the table. No box person, check. Chatty stickman who doesn't watch the dice, check. Annoyed/bothered/fill-in-the-blank base dealer, check. Throw in a distraction or two (full out brawl starting out in the aisle, guy dropping his beer on the layout, a real loud scream of excitement/winning from another table, you name it).


I'd imagine dice-switching occurs much more frequently than what most of us think (most of us probably think it happens once in a blue moon).

He is a magician who is trying to moonlight as [or outright switch to being] a cheat-spotter for casinos, seems like. Indeed magicians often are the ones who are good at it, so I'll give him that.

Having handy proper-looking but altered dice the right color and everything would take some serious planning. Stealing a die and doing it yourself doesn't sound like the way to go, although loading such a die might not be out of reach, see the image. He seems to be talking about dice with switched faces though.



from http://www.thebrothersgraham.com/loading.html [googled up quickly]

I agree with odious. While dice switching might happen, I cannot image it is common. Here in Cbus, at Hollywood, I think I heard the guys manning the table say they switched out dice packages after about 4 hours. They use difference colors. You've got eyes all over the place, including among the players. There's just too many variables for it to be "common."

Quote: iamnomad

I agree with odious. While dice switching might happen, I cannot image it is common. Here in Cbus, at Hollywood, I think I heard the guys manning the table say they switched out dice packages after about 4 hours. They use difference colors. You've got eyes all over the place, including among the players. There's just too many variables for it to be "common."

I think the "swap" is pretty easy,


but it's getting away with the money that is the problem. As soon as someone gets on a "hot" roll, the formerly relaxed staff will focus on the game when the pit boss and other "Suits" show up to watch the proceedings very carefully when large sums become involved. A chip fill will be ordered to allow them time to roll the dice with the stick, and even pull them for close inspection...

Interesting video, some new info for me, thanks.

As usual Benny Binion had the best view on it,

One guy switched a pair of his own dice into the game but one of the house dies stuck to his sweaty palm so when he tossed the dice three dice appeared on the layout and Benny said 'Go ahead and shoot,,,, your point is fifteen'

All joking aside its real hard to do and crews have assigned tasks and directions to look, The Stick calls the dice for a reason, the based dealers keep their eyes where they should be and don't hawk the dice.

Onehand only. Dice don't go beyond edge of layout even if shooter is dealing with a waitress's tip or something. Box has printout of dice serial numbers, box examines die looking at edges and for the imbedded logo.

Some casinos grind used dice to a powder rather than gift shop them after mutilation.

Watch a stickman sometime showing clean hands as he finishes his stint. The Box may not be looking at him all day long but if he fails to do it someone will write him up for it,. Procedure books are king.

Players may be skilled but so too are dice crews.

Quote: FleaStiff

Players may be skilled but so too are dice crews.

Dice crews are skilled?

A lot of people I worked with were.....let's just say "skilled" is a word on the opposite side of the spectrum I'd use to describe them. No doubt, SOME were very skilled, but for the most part -- no. Just, no. Granted, I wasn't super great either and f***ed around a lot, but mostly because we, for lack of better terms, were allowed to. That isn't to say when a certain person was in the pit we'd still be messing around.

Many dealers don't know the payouts in the center, well, the more complicated ones at least. Have a $15 horn-hi-yo, $6 three-way-7, and 12 hits, player wants to press to $30 and $12, dealer will take a few minutes to figure it out. Bonus points to the dealer if he gets it right.

I don't know how many times I've gotten hit in the ribs by the stick, or the base dealer before me scrambling up all the working stacks, or gotten back from break and tapping into the stick just to see 2 players on my left side with bets placed in 5 different positions on hardways.

Or how many times I'd been dealing, guy comes up with a handful of purple and yellow, start making bets, and the boxman is oblivious to the fact this guy now has $5,200 across....I have to ask for purple and yellow from the boxman (since we couldn't just take it from the bank ourselves), and he's off chatting to another floor person about who the hell knows what.

Or layouts without a section for the hop bets (ie: 3-5 hop) and the boxman doesn't even know what hop bet he just booked. Hell, I had a boxman refuse a bet because he didn't know what it paid! LOL.





We had a die go missing once. What happened? Honestly, I don't remember, but I do remember nothing especially interesting happened. Don't think we ever got that die back. We either just kept playing with the same roll of dice we had (and only used 4 dice instead of the 5), or got a new set.

I don't think it'd be too difficult to snag one and walk off with it. Then find some Chinese company to reproduce it, logo, stamp, serial, etc. for thousands of dice with a bunch of different serial numbers. Someone walks into the casino at beginning of the shift, figures out what the serial number is, leaves, and confederate comes in with a loaded die with the same serial.

I couldn't agree more with what RS said.
I worked with some very incompetent dealers.
More than once I tapped in and saw the point marked on different numbers on each end of the table.

Quote: Hunterhill

I couldn't agree more with what RS said.
I worked with some very incompetent dealers.
More than once I tapped in and saw the point marked on different numbers on each end of the table.

Oh yeah, I somehow totally forgot about that.

Then you look at boxman, "So...what's the point?" Box: "It's 6." .... Box: "No, it's 8." Me: "Sooooo....which is it?" Box: "Hold on.....it's 6 for this half of the table and 8 for that half."

That actually happened once. We kept dealing as if everything was normal.

On a humorous note,I once tapped in on stick,the outgoing stick says "the shooter is the guy with the glasses " he walked away and then I noticed every player had glasses.

Quote: RS

Hell, I had a boxman refuse a bet because he didn't know what it paid! LOL.

Show Spoiler

It was something like $1,020 lay against the 5, IIRC.

Gotta admit that I didn't immediately know the payout on that one. I had to consider separately the payouts on the first $900 and on the remaining $120 and add them together. But then, I'm not a craps dealer, and as a player I don't go in for the lay bets, so this is sorta foreign territory for me. Still, it isn't really complicated. Suppose the same wager had been for a nice even $1,100 -- that might have required a pencil and paper!

Quote: Doc

Quote: RS

Hell, I had a boxman refuse a bet because he didn't know what it paid! LOL.

Show Spoiler

It was something like $1,020 lay against the 5, IIRC.

Gotta admit that I didn't immediately know the payout on that one. I had to consider separately the payouts on the first $900 and on the remaining $120 and add them together. But then, I'm not a craps dealer, and as a player I don't go in for the lay bets, so this is sorta foreign territory for me. Still, it isn't really complicated. Suppose the same wager had been for a nice even $1,100 -- that might have required a pencil and paper!

You don't need to know the payout in order to book a bet. If someone wants to bet $6,732 on the 8, you book the bet, then figure out the pay later, assuming it's within table limits. For bets you don't automatically know, you break it down into amounts you do know, so $6,732 would pay $7,000 + $700 + $140 + $14.

Just thought it was funny (and 98.01% incompetent) to refuse a bet because he didn't know what the pay was, when he's not expected to know what the pay is off the top of his head, but to be able to figure it out. So if you want to lay $1,100, the boxman is supposed to book it, then figure it out later. Also, it's not that hard since you can break it down into easier numbers.

Quote: Hunterhill

On a humorous note,I once tapped in on stick,the outgoing stick says "the shooter is the guy with the glasses " he walked away and then I noticed every player had glasses.

I've done stuff like that before, oftentimes without realizing it. When I first started at a new place, for some reason it was super busy and lots of action, so naturally, it kinda fried my brain, just thinking, "Get me off this evil table!" Dealer asked me who's shooting and I just responded, "I don't know" as if that was a perfectly reasonable answer (in my head at the time, it was a reasonable answer).

Dealing was actually a lot of fun, though. Then again it sucked a lot sometimes too. I guess it had its moments.

Quote: Doc

Quote: RS

Hell, I had a boxman refuse a bet because he didn't know what it paid! LOL.

Show Spoiler

It was something like $1,020 lay against the 5, IIRC.

Still, it isn't really complicated. Suppose the same wager had been for a nice even $1,100 -- that might have required a pencil and paper!

Well $1100 is not divisible by 3 evenly!

Quote: DeMango

Well $1100 is not divisible by 3 evenly!

For me it might be, particualarly under pressure.

I too saw a floor walkover and tell the box the hockey pucks were on two different numbers. The box settled on one of them but he asked the players at one end: anyone want it left as it was.