can you move the dont pass bet to the pass line after a point is established?
Also is the max fire bet $10 and the min $1, and max on all small all tall all numbers min $1 , max $25?
Quote: valoemCan you move the dont pass line bet to the pass line bet after a point is established?
A smart casino would allow it.
You have an edge on the DP after a point is established so why move it?
Quote: valoemI know, I was just wondering in AC they do not allow it
That's good for the player then.
Quote: valoemI know, I was just wondering in AC they do not allow (moving a dp bet to the pass line after a point is established)...
i have not been to ac in quite a few years but i find that hard to believe...
no wonder they're struggling if they shoot themselves in the foot like that
tom p
Quote: betwthelinesi have not been to ac in quite a few years but i find that hard to believe...
no wonder they're struggling if they shoot themselves in the foot like that
tom p
They told me that was not allowed in vegas either I assumed that was incorrect
Seems like the North-East part of the US is fairly liberal(?) about gaming regulations, ie: they're pro-player. Like in PA, all BJ has to be S17 DAS LS etc.
Other casinos in the North-East area seem to make a big deal about "gambling problems" and stuff....it's like they advertise gambling addiction being a problem....whereas in LV, you won't see ANYTHING about gambling problem stuff (except in the mandatory areas, at the cashier cage, ATM machines, and player's club area [I think it's required to be there])...ya know, the "When the fun stops" with a sunset on it pamphlet.
Quote: RSI'd think it'd have to be a law in NJ. I think there are other laws, for instance, I don't think they can accept a wager that doesn't pay off properly (ie: $5 place bet on the six or eight).
Seems like the North-East part of the US is fairly liberal(?) about gaming regulations, ie: they're pro-player. Like in PA, all BJ has to be S17 DAS LS etc.
Other casinos in the North-East area seem to make a big deal about "gambling problems" and stuff....it's like they advertise gambling addiction being a problem....whereas in LV, you won't see ANYTHING about gambling problem stuff (except in the mandatory areas, at the cashier cage, ATM machines, and player's club area [I think it's required to be there])...ya know, the "When the fun stops" with a sunset on it pamphlet.
So all Vegas casinos allow moving the bet correct?
Quote: IbeatyouracesYou have an edge on the DP after a point is established so why move it?
Accept the fact that you have asked about 3 of the dumbest moves on the craps layout. The Firebet north of 20% against you. The ATS somewhere between 7-8%. And moving your DP bet to the PL, costing you 6-33%. Go to WOO or buy a book!
Quote: DeMangoAccept the fact that you have asked about 3 of the dumbest moves on the craps layout. The Firebet north of 20% against you. The ATS somewhere between 7-8%. And moving your DP bet to the PL, costing you 6-33%. Go to WOO or buy a book!
You quoted me making it seem as if I asked these questions. I know the answers.
I'd never play craps anyhow.
Quote: valoemSo all Vegas casinos allow moving the bet correct?
I'm not sure if ALL of them allow removing a DP bet, but I've never been made aware of one which disallows it. I'd say for the most part -- yes, it is permitted -- but there might be one (or a few?) that don't allow it.
Quote: RSI'm not sure if ALL of them allow removing a DP bet, but I've never been made aware of one which disallows it. I'd say for the most part -- yes, it is permitted -- but there might be one (or a few?) that don't allow it.
well, there's the thing about there only being two contract bets: the Pass and the Come. You can take down any other bet anytime - or you should be able to. I'd have to think it was the ignorance of the pit if you were stopped from taking down any bet except the two once the dice are in the middle of the table.
If so, then naturally you can take down your darkside bet, then make a DC bet. Same thing.
i am all that i can to bite my tongue when i see this...but, not being a fool myself at least most of the time, i do bite my tongue (unless maybe i know the person well enough).
tom p
Quote: betwthelinesyou see fools ALL THE TIME bring down their dp/dc bets when the 6 or 8 is the point or come point...i've even seen it a few times with the 5 and 9!
i am all that i can to bite my tongue when i see this...but, not being a fool myself at least most of the time, i do bite my tongue (unless maybe i know the person well enough).
tom p
I saw a guy making continuous DC bets, nothing ever on the DP. I figured "okay, he's a good guy, doesn't wanna bet against the shooter", some dark-siders do it, cool. He probably just wants to setup some DC bets, let the shooter hit his point, then let him throw a 7 on the come out...then everyone's a winner! But then I realized he'd always do "no action" on the 5, 6, 8, and 9. Took a few minutes for that to happen since shooter hadn't thrown a 5-9 for a few minutes. But then the weirdest thing happened -- once the shooter hit his point and he had a 4 and/or 10 DC....he'd take it down!
# can you get any worse than that?
Quote: betwthelines
i am all that i can to bite my tongue when i see this...but, not being a fool myself at least most of the time, i do bite my tongue (unless maybe i know the person well enough).
tom p
I couldn't bite my tongue and asked a guy playing next to me why instead of waving off action he didn't place the # for the corresponding amount, thereby guaranteeing a B/E with a chance for a small win - use as CW tip money. The response wasn't too bad, he politely told me to mind my own business. However, a light must have went off in his head because I saw him playing later and he was placing the 6 and 8.
Quote: RSI saw a guy making continuous DC bets, nothing ever on the DP. I figured "okay, he's a good guy, doesn't wanna bet against the shooter", some dark-siders do it, cool. He probably just wants to setup some DC bets, let the shooter hit his point, then let him throw a 7 on the come out...then everyone's a winner! But then I realized he'd always do "no action" on the 5, 6, 8, and 9. Took a few minutes for that to happen since shooter hadn't thrown a 5-9 for a few minutes. But then the weirdest thing happened -- once the shooter hit his point and he had a 4 and/or 10 DC....he'd take it down!
# can you get any worse than that?
lol. can't say that i have ever seen worse!
Quote: valoemIn Vegas can you move the Don't Come or to Come, or do you have to take it down if you do?
What you are technically doing when you "move" your bet is:
step one: you take down your bet.
step two: you make a new bet anywhere a new bet is playable
what you see happen with a dealer asking you if you want "no action" on a DC is the offer to skip the steps formally and just keep the bet in the DC box.
To answer your question directly, a dealer might first be confused about what you want if you asked to move your DC bet to the Come box. I would just ask to take down my bet and then put it myself in the Come box. If the dealer sees you do that a lot, then he probably will soon offer to make that move for you.
Ummmm, you have noticed, I hope, that this whole business is a very stupid way to gamble. I'd like to think you are reading the answers to your questions. You might demonstrate that in some manner, like saying, "I know it is not recommended, but .... "
It's easy to believe that gamblers get into this because they just got burned by losing several of these bets in a row or something. At a Craps table, almost all players who know it is a dumb move are going to keep their mouth shut unless you have asked them for advice - and that's unusual. So the erring player may not know how ridiculously bad a move it is, and might reinforce the seeming wisdom of it with confirmation bias. Most dealers, many of whom are working with that confirmation bias themselves, are also supportive of the move, perhaps letting the player know he has graduated to a new level of experienced player, just because now you know it can be done. The dealers who know it is a bad move know to keep quiet.
Valoem, by now you presumably have read and thus 'have been told' that it is a very bad move. That you are asking still how to go about it suggests you have other motives to continue making this move. One of the below?
*you are asking questions on the internet and don't trust the answers from 'Joe Blow'. You see some of the most experienced players do this move. You trust them better. For that matter, as far as I can remember I've never noticed the Wizard, who you might trust, ever mention the move in a webpage, answer it in an ask-the-W, or go over it in a video.
*you know it's a bad move, but you get hunches all the time, and you trust your hunches.
*you know it's a bad move, but somehow it's entertaining to push your luck even more, the normal house edge not giving you enough to try to beat.
of these, the last one, although flawed, is the only one in my book I wouldn't censure you for. If you are having fun, well, OK.
You might tell us what your motive is. It's odd.
Quote: odiousgambitUmmmm, you have noticed I hope that this whole business is a very stupid way to gamble. I'd like to think you are reading the answers to your questions. You might demonstrate that in some manner, like saying, "I know it is not recommended, but .... "
Yes, it's very stupid (assuming one cares about his/her gambling dollars).
As has been mentioned, pulling down an established DP/DC bet relinquishes a player advantage that was gained by surviving the house advantage on the come-out roll. This is bad enough in itself, but then making a Put bet in its place throws gasoline on your bankroll bonfire.
The degree of damage depends on which numbers are pulled and put and how often. The worst case would be to pull and put all numbers, but even just pulling and putting the 6 and 8 would still be pretty bad.
I put together the following small WinCraps script which pulls and puts only on points 6 and 8:
If a point is established on any(6, 8) And
last roll was a comeout roll And
dontpass > 0
Then
swap dontpass, passline
EndIf
If next roll is a comeout roll Then
bet 5 on dontpass :
bet 0 on passline
EndIf
I then ran a simulation for 5 million rolls and observed the following:
Avg outcome
DontPass -5.72%
Passline -8.69%
Combined -6.609%
So the player has effectively increased the house advantage by approx 472% from 1.4%!
By the way, I recently released WinCraps pro version 2.0.
Steen
You cant MOVE your DP to the P straight up because its a contract at the come-out. You may however pick up your DP and place it on the Pass Line (actually on the lower line nearest you) making it an ODDS take on the zero contract bet on the PL. You cant just create a contract bet after the point.
Do they call them contract bets for you guys in vegas and AC?
Quote: SteenYes, it's very stupid (assuming one cares about his/her gambling dollars).
As has been mentioned, pulling down an established DP/DC bet relinquishes a player advantage that was gained by surviving the house advantage on the come-out roll. This is bad enough in itself, but then making a Put bet in its place throws gasoline on your bankroll bonfire.
The degree of damage depends on which numbers are pulled and put and how often. The worst case would be to pull and put all numbers, but even just pulling and putting the 6 and 8 would still be pretty bad.
I put together the following small WinCraps script which pulls and puts only on points 6 and 8:
If a point is established on any(6, 8) And
last roll was a comeout roll And
dontpass > 0
Then
swap dontpass, passline
EndIf
If next roll is a comeout roll Then
bet 5 on dontpass :
bet 0 on passline
EndIf
I then ran a simulation for 5 million rolls and observed the following:
Avg outcome
DontPass -5.72%
Passline -8.69%
Combined -6.609%
So the player has effectively increased the house advantage by approx 472% from 1.4%!
By the way, I recently released WinCraps pro version 2.0.
Steen
I know it is stupid I would never do it, but I have a friend who is superstitious and doesnt like DC on 6 or 8. I would never do it, however if you take the bet down you can't put a Come on the same DC, you'd have to wait for a new role (new number), so I am guessing the answer is no you can not move DC to C correct?
Are you asking if you can move the DC bet to a contract bet on the number that was just rolled? (E.g., the point is 9. You place a DC bet. Next roll is 6. Instead of having the DC bet then travel to behind the 6, you want to move it to a 'come' bet on the 6?) The answer to this would be 'no.'Quote: valoemI know it is stupid I would never do it, but I have a friend who is superstitious and doesnt like DC on 6 or 8. I would never do it, however if you take the bet down you can't put a Come on the same DC, you'd have to wait for a new role (new number), so I am guessing the answer is no you can not move DC to C correct?
However, if you have a DC bet and a 6 rolls, you can take it down and then use it to make a place bet on the 6. This would essentially accomplish the same thing, except you might get better odds on the place bet, depending on bet size.
Quote: RS
Other casinos in the North-East area seem to make a big deal about "gambling problems" and stuff....it's like they advertise gambling addiction being a problem....whereas in LV, you won't see ANYTHING about gambling problem stuff (except in the mandatory areas, at the cashier cage, ATM machines, and player's club area [I think it's required to be there])...ya know, the "When the fun stops" with a sunset on it pamphlet.
Not that your game needs any help but smiling and handing one of these pamphlets to a group of good looking girls gambling is a nice ice breaker.
Quote: odiousgambit
Ummmm, you have noticed, I hope, that this whole business is a very stupid way to gamble. I'd like to think you are reading the answers to your questions. You might demonstrate that in some manner, like saying, "I know it is not recommended, but .... "
I don't think he is reading the advice he is being given.
Quote: DeMangoI don't think he is reading the advice he is being given.
Plenty of evidence.
Quote: valoemI am guessing the answer is no you can not move DC to C correct?
one more try
when the dice are in the middle, you can take any bet down except Pass and Come that you made before the roll and didn't instantly win or lose
then you can make any bet that's available. The Come bet will not be available unless there is a number to resolve and the puck is on. Usually, though, this 'move' decision is all about when the puck is on. So,
YES
the usual circumstances are that you can take down the still-existing-because-the-roll-was-not-7,11,2,or 3- DC bet instead of letting it travel to resolve, or instead of letting it stay because 12 was rolled, and yes, make a Come bet with that money.
You can't categorically say this. Virtually all casinos allow DP/DC bets to be reduced or removed and most casinos allow Put bets. However, it's true that some casinos don't allow Put bets. These casinos are either just plain stupid or they're constrained by local regulations.Quote: JoemanAre you asking if you can move the DC bet to a contract bet on the number that was just rolled? (E.g., the point is 9. You place a DC bet. Next roll is 6. Instead of having the DC bet then travel to behind the 6, you want to move it to a 'come' bet on the 6?) The answer to this would be 'no.'
Mathematically:
1) Removing any DP or DC bet that has become established on a point benefits the casino.
2) All Put bets have a house advantage which benefit the casino. This advantage is greater than that the casino would've enjoyed had the passline or come bets originated on the come-out roll.
Yes, a Place bet would be a better deal but only if the casino does not allow sufficient odds and the player does not intend on taking sufficient odds. For example, at a table offering 10x odds, Puts on 6/8 with full odds would yield a house advantage of 0.826% versus 1.52% for Place bets on 6/8.Quote: JoemanHowever, if you have a DC bet and a 6 rolls, you can take it down and then use it to make a place bet on the 6. This would essentially accomplish the same thing, except you might get better odds on the place bet, depending on bet size.
Steen
Yes, you can make any bet that's available. And yes, that means a Come bet will not be available when the marker buck is "Off". However, this applies to the area in the center of the table marked "Come" and not to established Come bets (meaning Come bets which have moved to point numbers.)Quote: odiousgambitthen you can make any bet that's available. The Come bet will not be available unless there is a number to resolve and the puck is on. Usually, though, this 'move' decision is all about when the puck is on.
The issue here as I understand it applies to taking down established DP/DC bets and moving them to established Passline/Come bets.
For tables that allow Put bets, you can establish Come bets on specific point numbers at any time not just when the marker buck is "On".
For example, new shooter is coming out - marker buck is "Off". You hand the dealer $55 and say "Put me up on Come6 for $5 flat and $50 odds (10x table). This is perfectly acceptable. By the same token you could say "Take down my $55 DC6 and put me up on Come6 for $5 flat and $50 odds". A good dealer will likely remind you that odds are off on the come-out roll to which you may simply reply "Make my odds work."
Steen
Quote: SteenYes, you can make any bet that's available. And yes, that means a Come bet will not be available when the marker buck is "Off". However, this applies to the area in the center of the table marked "Come" and not to established Come bets (meaning Come bets which have moved to point numbers.)
OK, it makes sense to assume this is what the repeated questions were getting at.
