Question about come bets during come out
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March 21st, 2016 at 4:29:40 PM
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Newer craps player, need a little help. Recently I was at a local casino and had established 3 come bets with odds until the shooter rolled his point. On the very next doll, during the come out, he rolled a 7. Instead of the dealers collecting my flat come bet(s) and returning my odds to me, they asked if I would like to stay "up" on my come bets. Puzzled, I asked what he meant and he explained if I gave him $15 (3 $5 chips for my 3 flat come bets) that I could keep my come bets alive. I still can't grasp this concept. Can someone explain this to me? I always assumed a 7 would mean a loss for my come bets, regardless if it's a come out roll or not, and that I would have to restablish my come bets once again by placing a chip in the come bar. And for you come bettors out there, do you keep your come bets up like this? Thank you
March 21st, 2016 at 5:13:29 PM
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your come bets were DEAD on a Winner 7Quote: Samhain<snip>he explained if I gave him $15 (3 $5 chips for my 3 flat come bets)
that I could
keep my come bets alive.
they LOST
in other words
they DIED and the casino won them.
come bets lost on the winner 7 rollQuote: SamhainI still can't grasp this concept.
the dealer wanted you to make 3 PUT bets
and place the odds on them just as it was with your 3 come bets with odds on them.
makes less work for the dealer
by asking you for $15
<<<>>>
How many odds did you have on the 3 come bets?
<<<<>>>>
I would suggest Laying the 3 other numbers
so when this happens again, you get your odds back and win 3 bets
starting over a winner!
super good luck
fun story
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
March 21st, 2016 at 5:23:42 PM
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You do not want to make put bets, and I do think that is what he was going to do with the odds bet that was being returned. Put bets favor the house
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 21st, 2016 at 5:27:11 PM
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why?Quote: odiousgambitYou do not want to make put bets,
I have seen many craps players make them and win too (1+1)
really?Quote: odiousgambitPut bets favor the house
always??
what KIND of favor?
<<<>>>
thank you for sharing
I Heart Vi Hart
March 21st, 2016 at 5:45:52 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitYou do not want to make put bets, and I do think that is what he was going to do with the odds bet that was being returned. Put bets favor the house
Are we sure? Maybe this casino is just ok with letting you buy the bets back or maybe the dealer didn't know what they were doing.
I set a personal record yesterday playing craps. I went on a monster 5 point roll. I must have thrown 70 times or more. Problem was, I was playing 3 come bets wit 3x odds and working them on a come out. 4 times during this roll I had them loaded and threw a 7 on a come out. Along with with I sevened out I had them loaded. That is $300 gone in that sequence. I ended up losing $100 on the roll but I did have the fire for 250. Plus 150 for nearly a 60 minute roll.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
March 21st, 2016 at 5:52:27 PM
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Quote: mustangsally
<<<>>>
How many odds did you have on the 3 come bets?
<<<<>>>>
Sally
I had $5 come bets with full 3x4x5x odds This happened at Harrahs Rincon in southern California
March 21st, 2016 at 6:01:58 PM
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Yeah, many come bettors will pay for put bets to keep their bets up on a come out seven. For that reason, and to save some effort, the dealer was asking you if you wanted to do it as well.Quote: mustangsallyI have seen many craps players make them and win too (1+1)
And, yeah, Put bets favor the house. I.E. The house edge is higher on Put bets than normal come bets, because you're missing the opportunity of the come-out seven.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 21st, 2016 at 7:39:40 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitYou do not want to make put bets, and I do think that is what he was going to do with the odds bet that was being returned. Put bets favor the house
I think it depends
As you well know, all bets(except odds) favor the house.
Granted, I prefer to get my odds bet down by going through the pass or come, but put bets would, if you're in a hurry to get $ on the layout, be superior to place bets when 10x odds are offered and taken(actually less than 10x but I'm too lazy to look it up or do the math).
I've seen many a high limit player at a $10, 100x table put $5,050 in play immediately after the comeout roll. I think these are very good bets.
March 22nd, 2016 at 12:06:09 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearAnd, yeah, Put bets favor the house. I.E. The house edge is higher on Put bets than normal come bets, because you're missing the opportunity of the come-out seven.
That is the truth. Come bets and Pass Line bets have a lower house edge because the bet wins on a come-out 7 or 11. However, after the point is made, there is no difference between the Come/Pass bet with Odds or a Put bet with Odds (or even a Place bet.) This is how your personal gambling preference factors in.
Are you satisfied to possibly win or lose your Come or Pass bet on a come-out roll? (For a Come bet, the next roll is a come-out roll.) Or do you want to take the gamble that your Put bet with full odds will be rolled? You could win 7x more money than the flat Come/Pass bet alone (full 3-4-5x odds.) It depends on how you feel like gambling. If you simply want to play the lowest house edge, Don't Pass and Don't Come is where your money should go. What I value is knowing the options and making an informed decision.
March 22nd, 2016 at 9:19:12 AM
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Quote: mustangsallywhy? [regarding put bets]
I have seen many craps players make them and win too (1+1)
now, Sally, come on. I have seen players win parlays betting on 12. Should I now say that's a good bet?
[adding] I'm talking about the difference between the put bet and allowing a line bet to travel instead. Of course, if you need the action and can do the below or similar...
Quote: wilbsmittI've seen many a high limit player at a $10, 100x table put $5,050 in play immediately after the comeout roll. I think these are very good bets.
I concede that as long as the player is comfortable with the size of the bet, I wouldn't otherwise consider them nuts to make such bets - the line bet can become an almost insignificant part of the bet.
I will say you are seeing some impressive action - perhaps you are a dealer?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 22nd, 2016 at 10:27:43 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitQuote: mustangsallywhy? [regarding put bets]
I will say you are seeing some impressive action - perhaps you are a dealer?
Not a dealer. When I used to live in the Chicago area I played weekly at the Horseshoe in Hammond, In. They're good rules for craps attracted a lot of big money players.
March 22nd, 2016 at 11:20:25 AM
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Never leave the bets up (unless you're betting multiple odds like the 5050 mentioned). Personally I am grateful that it happened on a come out and haven't lost the odds part. Pretend it's the first throw for the shooter and when a point has been established do whatever you do normally - i.e. probably make a come bet and perhaps a place 6 and 8.Quote: Samhain...come out...7. ...do you keep your come bets up like this? Thank you
btw Unless the dealer knows how you play, they are being a bit naughty offering you a Put bet; it's similar to other advice about making hard ways etc.
March 22nd, 2016 at 11:34:17 AM
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from the other thread:
EV of bet with odds [first example above] = -1.4 cents
EV of place bet on 6/8 [second example] = -9.12 cents
EV of put bet of $1 with $5 odds = 9.09% [on the 6 and 8, only on the dollar, per Wizard] = -9.09 cents
No, I don't believe for one second Sally needed to see it's roughly 1 and half cents versus roughly 9 cents for the same amount of money bet - place bet or put bet with odds not being much different
Quote: BlueEagleFor illustration purposes:
$1 flat bet with $5 odds on 6/8. Flat bet pays 1:1, odds pay 6:5. $1 + $6 = win of $7
$6 Place bet on 6/8. Pays 7:6 for a win of $7
EV of bet with odds [first example above] = -1.4 cents
EV of place bet on 6/8 [second example] = -9.12 cents
EV of put bet of $1 with $5 odds = 9.09% [on the 6 and 8, only on the dollar, per Wizard] = -9.09 cents
No, I don't believe for one second Sally needed to see it's roughly 1 and half cents versus roughly 9 cents for the same amount of money bet - place bet or put bet with odds not being much different
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 22nd, 2016 at 3:22:24 PM
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I know that place well, the sit-down craps tables with the Fire BetQuote: SamhainI had $5 come bets with full 3x4x5x odds
This happened at Harrahs Rincon in southern California
they also have (at least last year when I was there)
the hardways OFF on the come out roll and it was never posted
saw a few players "get off" on that one.
They allow Lay bets there too
so Lay the numbers you do not have a come bet with odds on
for way more fun and excitement
you could have them only for the come out roll
have fun
with the PUT bets
of course the 2 dice point to cards
so it is in the cards
I Heart Vi Hart
March 22nd, 2016 at 3:31:04 PM
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you stillQuote: odiousgambitplace bet or put bet with odds not being much different
putting
down
all
put bets?
it should be obvious to all that the advantage for put bets for a player lies (Lays)
in WHEN to make it
to quote S Wong (expert and all)
"knowing HOW and WHEN to place your bets is a workable skill that can greatly influence how much money you get to take home."
from
The Complete Idiot's Guide to Gambling Like a Pro
By Stanford Wong, Susan Spector
I know Susan
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
March 22nd, 2016 at 5:12:46 PM
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Okay, I will let the experts work the math out to four decimal places. The thing to remember is that PUT bets make a player who just lost feel he has "regained" something at a bargain. He hasn't. Its always a 'bargain bet' for the house.Quote: odiousgambit[adding] I'm talking about the difference between the put bet and allowing a line bet to travel instead. ?
But since the math is not all that bad for the player.... its more a matter of player's whim.
Its like saying 'no action' on my Dont Come bet .... bad for the player but makes him feel good and often lets him win.
March 22nd, 2016 at 5:22:17 PM
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not all ... note I was forced to concede they might be OK in certain circumstancesQuote: mustangsallyyou still
putting
down
all
put bets?
oh so often the place we find ourselves with Sally, saying things she can't possibly believe except IF it could be done then of course by all means do it. Unless you also mean certain circumstances, not predicting trends. Oh, what does Sally ever mean? She speaks in Riddles.Quote:it should be obvious to all that the advantage for put bets for a player lies (Lays)
in WHEN to make it
Mr. Wong may find himself working out such strategies in baccarat in the end. A sad end. Of course, one wonders what the context is. Spotting trends? Say it ain't so!Quote:to quote S Wong (expert and all)
"knowing HOW and WHEN to place your bets is a workable skill that can greatly influence how much money you get to take home."
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 22nd, 2016 at 8:30:24 PM
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in the book, about crapsQuote: odiousgambitMr. Wong may find himself working out such strategies in baccarat in the end. A sad end. Of course, one wonders what the context is. Spotting trends? Say it ain't so!
see
the ebook is only $11.99
Chapter 12
"It is similar to Chapter 13 in structure, but it offers additional benefits to farmers and fishermen in certain circumstances, beyond those available to ordinary wage earners."
I Heart Vi Hart
March 23rd, 2016 at 3:24:21 AM
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It is my understanding that hard ways working on a come out roll is a Vegas thing. Most Vegas dealers make a point of letting hard ways bettors know that they're working unless called off.Quote: mustangsallyI know that place well, the sit-down craps tables with the Fire Bet
they also have (at least last year when I was there)
the hardways OFF on the come out roll and it was never posted
saw a few players "get off" on that one.
Here in the East, they're off. Probably most places as well.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 23rd, 2016 at 4:33:45 AM
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Quote: mustangsallyin the book, about craps
see
the ebook is only $11.99
Chapter 12
"It is similar to Chapter 13 in structure, but it offers additional benefits to farmers and fishermen in certain circumstances, beyond those available to ordinary wage earners."
see, I told you, "certain circumstances" LOL
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 23rd, 2016 at 4:46:08 AM
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I used to do "put" bets a lot when I would start out with $5 pass/$15 or $16 odds and $26/$27 across. Each new point number got $10 odds. I'd get fully loaded and the point would hit. Odds off, a seven is rolled...keep them up for $25. It seemed to be okay, but then multiple sevens would happen...the investment was a bit large for my budget.
Now I think of a come out seven as a "reset" when this happens. I have had hundreds in odds returned in the midst of a good roll; then I either build it back up or don't loose as much when the end comes...
I am thankful to have learned about the odds. I know them for each way I play. I am an "action junkie" so higher risks are okay. It isn't always about the odds for me, but it is about knowing them.
Now I think of a come out seven as a "reset" when this happens. I have had hundreds in odds returned in the midst of a good roll; then I either build it back up or don't loose as much when the end comes...
I am thankful to have learned about the odds. I know them for each way I play. I am an "action junkie" so higher risks are okay. It isn't always about the odds for me, but it is about knowing them.
October 15th, 2018 at 5:27:06 PM
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If I'm going to be betting 5X odds on Come Bets instead of betting on larger place bets, do I really wanna turn my odds on during the come-out roll?
http://www.crapspit.org/can-lose-come-bets-points-theyre-off/
Wondering if I can put a Come Bet when it wins and keep the odds up? I get so annoyed trying to re-establish points.
http://www.crapspit.org/can-lose-come-bets-points-theyre-off/
Wondering if I can put a Come Bet when it wins and keep the odds up? I get so annoyed trying to re-establish points.
October 16th, 2018 at 12:50:10 AM
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The casino will, as an act of generosity, let you put the bets back up, after a seven, to save you from your annoyance! Such a deal!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
