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HotBlonde
HotBlonde
Joined: Feb 8, 2011
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February 16th, 2016 at 9:58:02 PM permalink
I was told by a forum member friend that when you take or place odds on your craps bet (don't pass or pass) that it lowers the house edge. Is this true? The Wizard lists the house edge for betting the pass line as 1.41% and the don't pass line as 1.36% (I think!).

Also do I keep my odds working on the come out roll even when I'm betting the don't?
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
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February 16th, 2016 at 10:02:35 PM permalink
yes taking or laying odds reduces the house edge, 2x to .82 and 3x to .62 etc

when you lay odds behind your don't the odds are always working........when you take odds behind your do, the odds are off on the comeout unless you call them on. Its your c hoice as it makes no difference.
get second you pig
HotBlonde
HotBlonde
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February 16th, 2016 at 10:04:52 PM permalink
Quote: ontariodealer

yes taking or laying odds reduces the house edge, 2x to .82 and 3x to .62 etc

when you lay odds behind your don't the odds are always working........when you take odds behind your do, the odds are off on the comeout unless you call them on. Its your c hoice as it makes no difference.


But on the don't you have to take 6x odds, not 3 or 2. (And isn't it usually 2x-3x-5x? Not sure where you came up with 2 and 3).
OFFICIALLY and justifiably reclaimed my title as SuperHotBlonde!
RS
RS
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February 16th, 2016 at 10:44:53 PM permalink
Placing the odds bet (in a weird twisted way) could be considered to lower the house edge. I just REALLY dislike that -- it makes no sense to me. It's a misnomer IMO.

In reality, you have a bet with a 1.41% HE then an optional bet with a 0% HE. You could add them together and come up with a combined HE on total action....but that's just weird. Doing so would imply there exists a house edge on the odds bet, since you're coming up with a combined HE on a combination of bets.

Odds have no house edge. If you have a $100 pass line bet, your expected loss is $1.41. Put max odds or no odds -- your expected loss is still $1.41.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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February 16th, 2016 at 10:58:41 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Placing the odds bet (in a weird twisted way) could be considered to lower the house edge. I just REALLY dislike that -- it makes no sense to me. It's a misnomer IMO.

In reality, you have a bet with a 1.41% HE then an optional bet with a 0% HE. You could add them together and come up with a combined HE on total action....but that's just weird. Doing so would imply there exists a house edge on the odds bet, since you're coming up with a combined HE on a combination of bets.

Odds have no house edge. If you have a $100 pass line bet, your expected loss is $1.41. Put max odds or no odds -- your expected loss is still $1.41.

I agree -- the effect of odds is to increase your total wagering volume without increasing your expected loss. That expected loss ($1.41 for every $100 pass line wager) doesn't change when you take odds on a $100 bet, but the total wager does.

It's certainly true that if you want to bet a total of $100, your expected loss will be lower if you bet $5 on the line and $95 behind it ($0.07 expected loss) than if you bet all $100 on the line with no odds ($1.41 expected loss). But for most people, the choice is not between "do I put $5 on the line and $20 behind, or do I just put $25 on the line?" -- instead, it's "after I put $5 on the line, how much in odds do I feel like betting?"

For anyone who plays that way, with a constant line bet rather than a constant total wager, making odds bets does not actually improve anything. The expected loss for a player consistently making $5 line bets is roughly $2.50 per hour regardless of whether odds are taken or how much.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
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February 17th, 2016 at 12:26:56 AM permalink
Quote: HotBlonde

But on the don't you have to take 6x odds, not 3 or 2. (And isn't it usually 2x-3x-5x? Not sure where you came up with 2 and 3).



you have things mixed up a a little....my example of 2x then 3 x was for taking odds on the pass/come...it shows the more odds you take how the edge comes down......on the dont' you do not have to lay 6x, that is the max you can lay on a 3/4/5 table.....you can lay single odds if you like.
get second you pig
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 17th, 2016 at 4:45:30 AM permalink
I think we can assume from some of your other threads you like to make large bets. If so, with Craps, you will be able to say the HE on your bets is well below 1% and can be lower than BJ with much better variance.

The typical Craps player blows all this by making middle table bets. Is that going to be you?

I seem to be running better now that I make sure my odds are on all the time. Ironically, during the action it seems like the opposite. It's a case of selective memory because it's a definite 'ouch' when it backfires. I have found the best way to do this rightside is to tell the dealer "always working please" when I give them the chips. If the table is noisy it can be hard to keep this up otherwise.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mustangsally
mustangsally
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February 17th, 2016 at 6:41:02 AM permalink
Quote: HotBlonde

I was told by a forum member friend that when you take or place odds on your craps bet (don't pass or pass) that it lowers the house edge. Is this true?

my opinion
the combined
house edge for the 2 bets treated as 1 bet
is
lower than just 1 bet being pass or dpass...
but
the house edge



for the dpass/pass line bets made on the come out roll and the odds bet made after the come out roll do not change.


They never have and they never will... cuz they are 2 different bets. Very different. sucker bets too (dp and p).
ask any craps expert, they know but may not tell the whole (100%) truth if that is what you are after.
most here in the USA are 420 friendly.
***
those that express their opinions on any craps matter
often
most times tell only part truths, partly so.

like me making pass line bets with 345x odds and having at least a 1.25% edge in my favor over the casino.
it is like how
and I say say negotiate it.
Quote: HotBlonde

Also do I keep my odds working on the come out roll even when I'm betting the don't?

for the dpass or the pass one is not making the odds bet on the come out roll
that would be silly
cuz
what point is it on when there is no point established?

you must be talking about a come bet that has moved to a number or a dcome that has moved behind the number
or maybe you are not
as I love ice cream

fact remains
house edge for odds bets = 0%
if you do not believe that,
try to change it and see what the Dealers do and say about it.

say it isnt so
I Heart Vi Hart
mdh
mdh
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
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February 17th, 2016 at 11:15:55 AM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

my opinion
the combined
house edge for the 2 bets treated as 1 bet
is
lower than just 1 bet being pass or dpass...
but
the house edge



for the dpass/pass line bets made on the come out roll and the odds bet made after the come out roll do not change.


They never have and they never will... cuz they are 2 different bets. Very different. sucker bets too (dp and p).
ask any craps expert, they know but may not tell the whole (100%) truth if that is what you are after.
most here in the USA are 420 friendly.
***
those that express their opinions on any craps matter
often
most times tell only part truths, partly so.

like me making pass line bets with 345x odds and having at least a 1.25% edge in my favor over the casino.
it is like how
and I say say negotiate it.
for the dpass or the pass one is not making the odds bet on the come out roll
that would be silly
cuz
what point is it on when there is no point established?

you must be talking about a come bet that has moved to a number or a dcome that has moved behind the number
or maybe you are not
as I love ice cream

fact remains
house edge for odds bets = 0%
if you do not believe that,
try to change it and see what the Dealers do and say about it.

say it isnt so

Nice to see posts from you again. I was worried you would pull a 7craps and not post anymore. Like 7craps I dont always understand everything in your posts but I can say there is not a post of yours that I dont learn something. With talk of craps, sex, 420, sports and winning at the tables, your posts are a good read.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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February 17th, 2016 at 12:28:30 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Placing the odds bet (in a weird twisted way) could be considered to lower the house edge. I just REALLY dislike that -- it makes no sense to me. It's a misnomer IMO.

I couldn't agree more with RS's statement. There's arguments made both ways, but at the end of the day I look at the Expected Value of all wagers in play to determine the overall EV.

Let's say you have $100 pass line bet and you're going to put $200 odds on it.

EV = (100)*(-.0141) + (200)*(0) = -$1.41 + 0... the exact same odds as if you just only bet the pass line with no odds.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.

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