Mr. Wizard or one of you math wizards...please tell me what the house edge would be on this

I typically play pass line and once a point is established, I place the 6 and the 8 (assuming the point isn't either of these numbers...if it is I just place the other one). I continue on with two come wagers. If I establish three numbers with odds, I turn off the 6 and 8. And then if one hits, I turn them back on until I re-establish three numbers with odds. That's pretty much it. What would be the casino advantage?

What odds? 2x? 3/4/5x? 10x?

Also, I assume that if you roll 2, 3, 11, or 12 on one of your two Come bets, then you make another Come bet?

Quote: ThatDonGuy

What odds? 2x? 3/4/5x? 10x?

Also, I assume that if you roll 2, 3, 11, or 12 on one of your two Come bets, then you make another Come bet?

Correct

3/4/5 and max odds

Well, I hope Mr. Wizard picks up this post for his "Ask the Wizard" section (he said not to email him directly but to put it on the forum.

Quote: bodyforlife

Well, I hope Mr. Wizard picks up this post for his "Ask the Wizard" section (he said not to email him directly but to put it on the forum.

all the HE for these bets are known, and published at his site. I think he wanted you to post it here to get answers here, not necessarily from him.

since you are turning bets on and off, probably this is one of those times to go the HE of the bets 'per roll' and just look really at it one situation at a time?

PS: few questions asked here ever make it to "ask the wizard"

body



Each of those bets has a house advantage, all you need to do is look at
each individual one.

Many times players feel well if I use this or that combination of bets
I can impact the house advantage....that is correct, the more bets you have, the
more bets you have with a house advantage . Another way of
looking at that is that each bet is a contract with the house, and you pay
for each contract.

If you want to see what a combination of bets can do is record 500 or so
throws and then apply different betting patterns to see where the results
were better or worse for you. Certainly 500 rolls is not enough to predict
the future, but then again it may be useful.

dicesetter

Roughly whenever you may a new Pass or Come bet it costs 1.4c (per $1 bet) - this is a one-off payment.
Similarly it costs about .46c to have a $1 place bet (on 6 or 8 paying 7/6) per roll - this is a recurring payment that you continue to pay if you leave the bet active. (Note usually on place bets a higher House Edge is stated, this is because it is assumed the bet is left active until resolution.)

Thus you can work it out for each roll depending on how many bets you make and their sizes. However it might be easier just to run a simulation and find out what happens for a larger number of rolls.

You want someone to run a Wincraps simulation for you, then deduce an expected loss through a million trials. I asked a similar question a couple of years ago and a kind vagabond did it for me, maybe you'll have the same fortune.

Quote: ahiromu

You want someone to run a Wincraps simulation for you, then deduce an expected loss through a million trials. I asked a similar question a couple of years ago and a kind vagabond did it for me, maybe you'll have the same fortune.

Not sure if I qualify as a vagabond, but you can use these lines to run a WinCraps simulation on this:

If initializing script Then
autotake full odds = true :
autohandle winning bets = "take bet and winnings"
EndIf

If next roll is a comeout roll Then
bet $6 on passline
EndIf

If a point is established Then
If count(come bets) < 2 Then
bet $6 on come
If point <> 6 And come6 = 0 Then bet $6 on place6 EndIf
If point <> 8 And come8 = 0 Then bet $6 on place8 EndIf
Remove on / off button from(place6, place8)
Else
call off(place6, place8)
EndIf
EndIf

Unfortunately, the indenting (which makes the script more readable) gets removed when I post the message but it can still be copied and pasted into WinCraps if anyone wants to toy with it.

I ran a quick million rolls and came up with a loss of $54,647 on 1,317,739 decisions and $16,045,950 worth of action. That's -0.34% per decision or -0.45% per roll (about 5.5 cents per roll). A second million yielded -0.47% per decision. Of course, the more rolls you record, the closer you'll get to the "real" answer.

The bet size was not specified but it makes a big difference. Although the house advantage (%) does not depend on bet size for each individual wager, your average loss (%) from these combined multiple wagers does depend on bet size because it determines the proportional contribution of each wager. For example, the average loss for $6 passline and $300 place 6/8 will be higher than $300 passline and $6 place 6/8. For my sims I assumed all flat and place bets at $6, odds at 3,4,5x.

Steen

Use [code] tags.

Quote: RS

Use [code] tags.

Which tags? Direct HTML is not allowed in posts and I don't see any of the allowed formatting codes that would work.

Like so:




EDIT: That's some weird lookin' code, though. Is this code written in a specific language for this craps stuff? Don't recognize it at all... :(

Quote: RS

Like so:

If initializing script Then
   autotake full odds = true :
   autohandle winning bets = "take bet and winnings"
EndIf

If next roll is a comeout roll Then
   bet $6 on passline
EndIf

If a point is established Then
   If count(come bets) < 2 Then
      bet $6 on come
      If point <> 6 And come6 = 0 Then bet $6 on place6 EndIf
      If point <> 8 And come8 = 0 Then bet $6 on place8 EndIf
      Remove on / off button from(place6, place8)
   Else
      call off(place6, place8)
   EndIf
EndIf

I see, said the blind man. Thanks RS, I thought that tag was for something else but now I'm savvy.

Quote:

EDIT: That's some weird lookin' code, though. Is this code written in a specific language for this craps stuff? Don't recognize it at all... :(

The scripting language is one I wrote for WinCraps. It's integrated into the game and uses craps lingo to try and make it as easy as possible for users to program. Anyone with WinCraps pro can just copy the code above, paste it into WinCraps, edit if desired and start rolling.

Steen